102 replies to this topic

[Bill Lumbar]

Kushko, on 23 June 2015 - 08:50 PM, said:

Agreed. Happy new costumers play the game more (which is good for everyone since it means shorter and better queues) and potentially even spend money down the road. I reckon there are way way way more new players that quit after they realized the shiny new mech they just got wont be complete until they get 2 more of the same mech, than there are players that hit this "paywall" mechanic and spend money to get around it (not to mention the disaster that would follow if the current system stayed for the steam release). I know none of my friends even considered paying, and some of them have spent thousands on other games (Star Citizen, Dota, Eve, WoW).

The buy 3 to master 1 system is not actual progression but a bottleneck grind. The problem isnt how long it takes, but its lack of fun/meaningful progression. You dont get something new and exciting for the time or money you put in to it, you get something you already have. Only in a few cases of battlemechs are the variants actually different enough to feel like you are playing a new mech (catapult K2 for example).

A happy costumer is more likely to open up his wallet, thats a fact and anyone who thinks arm twisting is a better way is just horribly wrong.

And as for people who think anyone who doesnt pay to play the game might just as well leave...im seriously shocked speechless by your narrow mindedness.

^^^This^^^^ 100%

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 23 June 2015 - 09:14 PM.

[Dingo Battler]

the 3 mech system favours the clans. For us, its convenient. I have a brawler TW, mid-range DPS TW and a sniper TW (they even have very different KDRs!) I just pop all modules out of one, stuff it into another, and fire up my mech. This is thanks to the omnipod technology, that I can kit all 3 to specialise in different areas.

It doesn't favour IS mechs. I have 3 cataphracts. I only use the 3D, and sometimes the 4X. The 1X was just used to get elite skills, and I will never touch it ever. I think most IS mech pilot only use a particular variant, like the DDC atlas.

[Carl Vickers]

Personally I think they need to keep the current system but rework it.

Instead of needing to basic 3 mechs to get to elite skills you should be able to get elite skills on an individual mech, to master a mech means you should need to get 3 variants elited as that is what mastery is.

Plus it wouldnt stuff up their mastery packages while giving the new recruits some accomplishment and having their first mech able to keep up and not be too grindy thus grinding them out of the game.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Carl, on 23 June 2015 - 09:29 PM, said:

Personally I think they need to keep the current system but rework it.

Instead of needing to basic 3 mechs to get to elite skills you should be able to get elite skills on an individual mech, to master a mech means you should need to get 3 variants elited as that is what mastery is.

Plus it wouldnt stuff up their mastery packages while giving the new recruits some accomplishment and having their first mech able to keep up and not be too grindy thus grinding them out of the game.

This, this is a damn good suggestion and solves both the issue some players have with the current system AND doesn't detract from the current package setup that PGI has going.

[Pjwned]

Carl, on 23 June 2015 - 09:29 PM, said:

Personally I think they need to keep the current system but rework it.

Instead of needing to basic 3 mechs to get to elite skills you should be able to get elite skills on an individual mech, to master a mech means you should need to get 3 variants elited as that is what mastery is.

Plus it wouldnt stuff up their mastery packages while giving the new recruits some accomplishment and having their first mech able to keep up and not be too grindy thus grinding them out of the game.

That would still mean an extra module slot locked behind a lot of grind, but yes that would definitely be an improvement because the elite skills (and basic skills x2) are what really matter a lot.

Edited by Pjwned, 23 June 2015 - 10:10 PM.

[Conan Librarian]

"Great buy, sir! Catapult K2 is a trustworthy machine... Oh, and that iconic look.
Just remember, sir - you need to buy 2 more Catapults that spam LRMs to truly master this energy-based Mech.
What, you don't want to? Come on, just stop being greedy and grind away, it'll just take about 2-3 weeks of playing variants you hate so you can enjoy playing your favourite one to the fullest.

Sir? Where are you going? Don't quit, universe neeeeeeeds you!"

Tried introducing 3 friends (playing mostly FPS games) to the game. Two of them left because of this grind mechanic alone, the other one hated lack of strafing.
One of them said "If I wanted to grind then I'd rather play MMO RPG"

[Kristov Kerensky]

Pjwned, on 23 June 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

That would still mean an extra module slot locked behind a lot of grind, but yes that would be quite an improvement because the elite skills (and basic skills x2) are what really matter a lot.

Since modules are supposed to be end game content, according to Russ, and yes you do hear me laughing at the concept of end game content in MWO, this suggestion is actually perfect.

Most people just want the bonuses from getting a Mech fully Elited out, they don't actually go for Master, since that only gives you another module, which can be useful, but it doesn't give an immediate reward like full Elite does. For those who DO want to get Master, well, they'll go ahead and do it, and they'll probably make enough cbills to afford a new module

[Percimes]

Any mech bought with MC should come with its mechbay and not require any other variant to master. Might give me a reason to buy MC since now I have all the colors I want and more then enough mechbays from the packages I keep buying.

Who buy regular mechs with MCs now?

Edited by Percimes, 24 June 2015 - 06:20 AM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Percimes, on 24 June 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

Who buy regular mechs with MCs now?

its $ -> MC - Cbills circle. every step is cheaper.
Ill buy one EBJ with MC just to have one, before it will be availaible in cbills completely. Not paying direct $ for it now.

so yes, ill do it, occasionaly.

And wait for Steam release it will be common....

Edited by Titannium, 24 June 2015 - 06:29 AM.

[Bill Lumbar]

Kristov Kerensky, on 23 June 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

Since modules are supposed to be end game content, according to Russ, and yes you do hear me laughing at the concept of end game content in MWO, this suggestion is actually perfect.

Most people just want the bonuses from getting a Mech fully Elited out, they don't actually go for Master, since that only gives you another module, which can be useful, but it doesn't give an immediate reward like full Elite does. For those who DO want to get Master, well, they'll go ahead and do it, and they'll probably make enough cbills to afford a new module

I am one of those that has around 30+ mechs and have all but maybe 2 mastered. I find I like to roll with Radar derp and seismic and they both help out big time. Mastering a mech might not be as important as going to elite for the X2, but it is IMO that does give a very nice advantage when being able to equip that extra module. As for being able to afford modules.... ummmm yeah, not so much!

[Revis Volek]

Pjwned, on 23 June 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

"Less bad" does not mean "is not bad."



If there is an established problem of players (both new and old) not paying money because they'll just extend their middle finger in response to having their arm twisted, then the current business model is obviously not working for everybody.



This assumes that everybody will eventually give in and pay cash in response to dealing with the shitfest grind, and that changing it will definitely result in the game receiving less money or even so much less money that the game would shut down.

The former is absolutely not true, and just because your consumer standards are that of a weak-kneed little ***** that doesn't mean everybody else will shovel tons of money into PGI's pockets to skip past the shitfest grind a bit faster.

The latter could be true possibly, but considering that people withhold their money because of PGI's business practices, I don't see any good reason to believe that reducing the shitfest grind would result in the game making less money.

And i dont see how altering it would be a guarantee that you would get money either?

[Sable]

I think some people don't understand the definition of "mastering" means. You are considered a master at something when you know everything there is to know about it, how it works, how to squeeze out the last bits of performance that others can't. How can you do that if you haven't piloted more than 1 variant of a mech? Becoming a master means you've piloted different mechs and understand how each works separately on their own. You can be good at driving a particular car but a master is good at driving all kinds of cars to the best of their ability. I am completely fine with the idea that in order to "master" a mech you need to pilot multiple versions of that mech in order to "gain experience".

[Kristov Kerensky]

Bill Lumbar, on 24 June 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

I am one of those that has around 30+ mechs and have all but maybe 2 mastered. I find I like to roll with Radar derp and seismic and they both help out big time. Mastering a mech might not be as important as going to elite for the X2, but it is IMO that does give a very nice advantage when being able to equip that extra module. As for being able to afford modules.... ummmm yeah, not so much!

I tend to Master all my Mechs, just because, and I have lots of modules because of that. I realized when I started leveling my EBJ and Exec I had 0 Clan modules. I'm in an IS unit, we only take IS contracts for CW, so I don't use Clan toys a lot. So I blew 20m cbills on some Clan modules

[Zodal]

It's a difficult hill to climb for sure.

Why not give players a "2x match earnings" consumable for each achievement they unlock?

When you first start the game, you unlock quite a few achievements, and that can get the money train running even faster.

The amount rewarded could scale with how difficult the achievement is.

[keith]

they don't even have to get rid of the 3 mech system. just change it a bit, let say they make it so to get the master slot u have to own 2 other mechs. this means a new player can get the 2x bonus with a single mech. if they wish ti get the "fullness" out of said mech they need to go back buy the other 2 mechs and master them. this would give pgi money but still allow a new player with a decent mech of their choosing. both pgi and new player should win.

[oldradagast]

While it is certainly possible to grind out 3 mechs to master them, is it fun? That's the real question. If it is a chore, folks probably won't be bothered.

For example, I've sold one-offs I've bought of chassis just because the process of buying 3 and mastering them would be so soul-suckingly boring I just didn't have the time. Also, I'm tempted to replace my wretched Awesomes with something else, like a Zeus or Battlemaster... but the concept of going through that horrid waste of resources and time again is just so unappealing that I won't be bothered with it.

There has to be a better way: Allow full mastery one one chassis. Or, full mastery if they basic master 3 in a weight class (Lights, mediums, etc.) Just some ideas. Right now, it stinks literally buying and playing mechs you hate and are just going to sell anyway. What's the point? I suppose this would be mitigated a bit if so many mechs didn't have awful variants that are just unplayable - or mechs where most of the variants were nearly the same, though quirks help with that. But still, even then, you're blowing a lot of time and money and may not even enjoy what you're buying and playing.

[Pjwned]

DarthRevis, on 24 June 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

And i dont see how altering it would be a guarantee that you would get money either?

A) The current system is not a guaranteed way of making money either, if that's what you're implying; see the bit about not everybody caving in and spending money in response to arm twisting, because it's true.

B) When establishing that the current system is a guaranteed way of not making money in numerous cases because people get fed up with it and quit the game altogether, as seen by numerous complaints about it, then changing the system so that it's not complete dogshit would result in less disgruntled players (in addition to making other not disgruntled but not very satisfied customers more happy) and that sounds like a pretty productive change to me.

C) I don't recall claiming that it would be a guaranteed way of getting money, but I did say that it would make a number of customers less irritated with the current system and I will claim that has a positive effect on making people more likely to spend some money.

[Koniving]

Personally I think you should have used all variants to reach master, though the three mech system for elite is just kinda, meh.

Now that said, I believe and in fact insist that the skill tree system overall be overhauled.

It's nothing like the skill tree system of Choose Your Destiny that PGI originally proposed. It'd create more unique experiences.

At the very least, something with traits more specific to the type of mech.

[Vxheous]

They should flip the requirements for basic and elite around. Instead of 3 variants of same mech to unlock elite, it should be 3 mechs of same weight class. To master a mech should then be 3 variants instead of the current 3 same weight class.

[GenghisJr]

If it was that much of a problem, no one would have mastered mechs. Having to master 3 mechs also embeds skills necessary to play well. If people dont want to spend time doing this, there is always premium time and the time taken can be halved.