89 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

Hades Trooper, on 24 June 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

And your acceleration is still slower than the gargoyle while using MASC and the gargoyle still doesn't get screen shake

NEXT



yeah i was wrong exe get 5 tonnes more, but acceleration is still slower than the gargoyles.An the MASC creates screen shake so the Gargoyle can get its snap shot off faster.

This is so not true. You don't even need to own an EXE to test the acceleration because there are videos of it already. With MASC it can almost instantly reach top speed.

Dude, at least get your facts right....

[1453 R]

All right Hades. Time for some show-and-tell.

Gargoyle: Max Efficient (nearest whole half ton) Armor.

Pod Space: 20t

Executioner: Max Efficient (nearest whole half ton) Armor:

Pod Space: 25t

That's a 25% increase over the Gargoyle. Hard increase, right there for the world to see. So your first point - that the Executioner has less equipment space than the Gargoyle - is objectively bust.

Now, your second point - that the Gargoyle is faster than the Executioner, even with M.A.S.C.? True. The Gargoyle will win footraces with the Executioner, and that does give the Garfayle a niche. Load the Garfayle with lasers and it becomes a semi-workable quick Beamspam striker with better armor than most, though its tremendous size still gives it trouble. That is, however, as it should be - every 'Mech needs a trick it does that few others do, that's how we get diversity.

The Executioner's trick is being able to accelerate/decelerate, and otherwise change vectors, faster than some thirty-tonners. M.A.S.C. is a game changer. Yes, without M.A.S.C. the Executioner would not be good. That is not, however, the world we live in. We live in a world where Executioners have M.A.S.C., and where proper application of that M.A.S.C. turns them into incredibly potent city fighters and other dense-cover abusers. Or even regular-cover abusers, as required. The Executioner can dance with the best of them. It represents an unprecedented level of mobility for its size, which gives it a better niche than half the game's existing assault 'Mechs.

Now, clearly that advantage means little or nothing to you. Understood, that's cool. A lot of players don't like assault 'Mechs which do not carry assault 'Mech firepower, and that's fine. But, first of all, you need to get your facts straight before you rail on the Executioner for being the worst 'Mech in the game. It has more pod space by five extremely important tons than the Garfayle, and with its M.A.S.C. it beats the accel/decel curves of just about anything that isn't an up-engined Spheroid light.

If you're going to give the Executioner sass for being bad, give it sass for things it's actually bad at, dude.

[reign]

I Still fail to see a problem with it.

1. Its a 95 ton assault mech that can move 84kph, and has medium like agility.
2. It has similar weapon load out as a timber wolf 2 LPL , 3 mpl, ETC.
3. It can jump fairly decently , and rather well for an assault.
4. It can face hug like a Banshee.

Really what is the problem?

[Nathan Foxbane]

At 209439.15 lbs it is one big gorilla.

[Scout Derek]

reign, on 24 June 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

I Still fail to see a problem with it.

1. Its a 95 ton assault mech that can move 84kph, and has medium like agility.
2. It has similar weapon load out as a timber wolf 2 LPL , 3 mpl, ETC.
3. It can jump fairly decently , and rather well for an assault.
4. It can face hug like a Banshee.

Really what is the problem?

The fact that it's a new mech and no one knows how to play them D:<

Though I have my brawler build setup in that video I posted

[Wintersdark]

1453 R, on 24 June 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

All right Hades. Time for some show-and-tell.

Gargoyle: Max Efficient (nearest whole half ton) Armor.

Pod Space: 20t

Executioner: Max Efficient (nearest whole half ton) Armor:

Pod Space: 25t

That's a 25% increase over the Gargoyle. Hard increase, right there for the world to see. So your first point - that the Executioner has less equipment space than the Gargoyle - is objectively bust.

Poor gargles.

Quote

Now, your second point - that the Gargoyle is faster than the Executioner, even with M.A.S.C.? True. The Gargoyle will win footraces with the Executioner, and that does give the Garfayle a niche. Load the Garfayle with lasers and it becomes a semi-workable quick Beamspam striker with better armor than most, though its tremendous size still gives it trouble. That is, however, as it should be - every 'Mech needs a trick it does that few others do, that's how we get diversity.

The Executioner's trick is being able to accelerate/decelerate, and otherwise change vectors, faster than some thirty-tonners. M.A.S.C. is a game changer. Yes, without M.A.S.C. the Executioner would not be good. That is not, however, the world we live in. We live in a world where Executioners have M.A.S.C., and where proper application of that M.A.S.C. turns them into incredibly potent city fighters and other dense-cover abusers. Or even regular-cover abusers, as required. The Executioner can dance with the best of them. It represents an unprecedented level of mobility for its size, which gives it a better niche than half the game's existing assault 'Mechs.

Absolutely.

People keep looking at MASC in terms of max speed. The speed boost on the Executioner is minor at best and ultimately irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. MASC's value is in agility increase - turn faster, and more importantly accelerate VASTLY faster. Being able to go from 0 to top speed in < 1s is amazing. Being able to go from max forward speed to max reverse nearly instantly is beyond valuable, it's something no other assault can do. It makes the Executioner exceptional at peek and poke.

Quote

Now, clearly that advantage means little or nothing to you. Understood, that's cool. A lot of players don't like assault 'Mechs which do not carry assault 'Mech firepower, and that's fine. But, first of all, you need to get your facts straight before you rail on the Executioner for being the worst 'Mech in the game. It has more pod space by five extremely important tons than the Garfayle, and with its M.A.S.C. it beats the accel/decel curves of just about anything that isn't an up-engined Spheroid light.

Indeed. The Executioner has flaws, and it's not for everyone (I, for one, can't do well in mine to save my life, but maybe that'll improve with Pilot Skills). But it is objectively not the worst assault in the game, and DEFINITELY not the worst mech in the game. It's a niche mech - and we knew that going in, as it's an assault with less pod space AND speed than pretty much any Clan heavy.

But it has features - particularly its acceleration curve, but also decent tankiness and fully usable 25t of pod space allowing it to utilize common Laser Vomit builds quite effectively.

[1453 R]

Dire Whale pilots will absolutely detest the Executioner. It has firepower problems, no joke. They're not crippling firepower problems given its stupid preponderance of [E] hardpoints even without the D variant, but it can't do typical Banshee builds, let alone typical Dire Whale builds.

On the other hand, the Executioner might well be an assault 'Mech for people who detest the Whale. I have the Masakari pack, and yet I have never once piloted my Dire Whales. Every single one of them was stripped the minute I got the package as a start to building up a warehouse of Clan gear for 'Mechs I would actually pilot. The Whale has truly stupendous firepower, yes indeed it does...but I would rather 'pilot' the hardened bunkers which are, in fact, capable of outmaneuvering a Dire Whale than the Whale itself.

The Executioner, and more specifically its M.A.S.C. system, enable a style of play no other 'Mech can match. Not even the Shadow Cat, when it hits - the Cat will be grand, but it will also be a forty-five ton machine with ~17 or so tons of pod space at a maximum after scrimping tonnage from anywhere it can find. It won't be a 95-ton monster able to accelerate like a Cicada. That is reserved for the Executioner alone, and frankly? That is a thing that is a whole lot of fun to play, even if I'm not very good with it yet.

[Wintersdark]

1453 R, on 24 June 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

Dire Whale pilots will absolutely detest the Executioner. It has firepower problems, no joke. They're not crippling firepower problems given its stupid preponderance of [E] hardpoints even without the D variant, but it can't do typical Banshee builds, let alone typical Dire Whale builds.

On the other hand, the Executioner might well be an assault 'Mech for people who detest the Whale. I have the Masakari pack, and yet I have never once piloted my Dire Whales. Every single one of them was stripped the minute I got the package as a start to building up a warehouse of Clan gear for 'Mechs I would actually pilot. The Whale has truly stupendous firepower, yes indeed it does...but I would rather 'pilot' the hardened bunkers which are, in fact, capable of outmaneuvering a Dire Whale than the Whale itself.

The Executioner, and more specifically its M.A.S.C. system, enable a style of play no other 'Mech can match. Not even the Shadow Cat, when it hits - the Cat will be grand, but it will also be a forty-five ton machine with ~17 or so tons of pod space at a maximum after scrimping tonnage from anywhere it can find. It won't be a 95-ton monster able to accelerate like a Cicada. That is reserved for the Executioner alone, and frankly? That is a thing that is a whole lot of fun to play, even if I'm not very good with it yet.

I'm flat out bad in mine. I'm a solid Assault pilot, and while I do extremely well in Direwolves, I do very well in Warhawks, Stalkers, Highlanders, King Crabs, Battlemasters, Banshees and more as well.

But, with that said, I don't run any of my assaults fast (with the exception of the warhawk, which is what it is).

I love MASC, and can appreciate what it does, but my Executioners always feel like they're a wall of armor with no real firepower. Yes, you can bring a lot of lasers, but as I don't have the D pods, it's almost all in really low slung arms that can't hit anything unless you're so lucky as to be fighting on flat terrain.

My Prime is equipped with 6 ERML's and a LPL - a "good" loadout - but the realities of it for me make those ERML's often useless. Fighting with a single Large Pulse Laser on a 95T assault is pathetic. I do get kills, of course - that's a good alpha, and in ideal circumstances it deals a lot of hurt. However... I think my best match to date, since the release, is like 400 damage and two kills. For me in an assault, that's just not acceptable.

The mech is really, REALLY just not for me.

[Ultimax]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

I love MASC, and can appreciate what it does, but my Executioners always feel like they're a wall of armor with no real firepower. Yes, you can bring a lot of lasers, but as I don't have the D pods, it's almost all in really low slung arms that can't hit anything unless you're so lucky as to be fighting on flat terrain.

Life will change with the D-pods.

It has roughly the same firepower as the TBR, a mech that hits well above it's weight class.


Until then, maybe try something like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3318442a03ea673

Edited by Ultimatum X, 24 June 2015 - 05:05 PM.

[1453 R]

I've been tooling around with a variant you can do without D pods that, honestly, is catching up quick to being my favorite EXE.

EXE-A - Autocannon Edition

When I was tooling around pre-launch, I was super excited for the cUAC/20 edition...but that just didn't pan out. Having effectively all of your firepower in that ultra-low gorilla arm just didn't work for me. Maybe it's me being bad in the 'Mech, but still. After several of the expected laser vomit tries, though, I decided to investigate torso ballistics. Now, the EXE could make an acceptable gauss machine, I imagine, mostly because everything can...but what with all the complaints over no torso-mounted AC/20, and me still remembering the lessons of my TBRs (i.e. the cUAC/10 is actually pretty snappy)...I decided to give it a shot.

This works surprisingly well. The autocannon's high enough to give you some peekage, it's snappy enough you can use it with M.A.S.C. well - the burstfire even pads M.A.S.C.'s screenshake a bit if all you need is a defensive 'back off!' snapshot or are willing to roll the dice - and most importantly it's actually cool enough to use those lasers well when I get a shot. Most of the time it does just fight with the autocannon, yeah...but if you use M.A.S.C. well, I've had lots of people get frustrated and come after me in a close fight because they're trading poorly with the Dancecutioner, figuring "It's got less pod space than the Gargoyle, I'll just mess it up face-to-face!"...only to figure out that you don't need a ton of pod space for a nasty energy alpha.

Give it a shot, Dark. Maybe it'll work for you.

[Deathlike]

The Executioner-D's omnipods will change its usage a bit, but ultimately if you had been practicing the Gargles (the Gargoyle) had I'd suggested... Garglesv2 (the Executioner) would actually be more or less what it is, and then some.


I don't know exactly what people were honestly expecting, given the current state of the game (and I'm not talking about Hoverjets™ strictly).


I still don't get PGI's fascination from putting weapons on the lowest mounts first on one arm (the right arm) and have it operate vastly differently on the other arm (the left arm).... on the same mech no less.

[Wintersdark]

Ultimatum X, on 24 June 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

Life will change with the D-pods.

It has roughly the same firepower as the TBR, a mech that hits well above it's weight class.


Until then, maybe try something like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3318442a03ea673

Yeah, I'm not slamming the mech, it's a solid mech but one in a specific niche. I'm just REALLY bad in it.

I actually have that build on one of my Exec's right now (gauss+lasers). Still just doesn't work for me, because so often the arms are completely useless. Sadly, I'm in a rather higher Elo bracket in my Assaults, so my opponents know and understand how to exploit the low slung arm disadvantage.

Edited by Wintersdark, 24 June 2015 - 05:29 PM.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm not slamming the mech, it's a solid mech but one in a specific niche. I'm just REALLY bad in it.

I actually have that build on one of my Exec's right now (gauss+lasers). Still just doesn't work for me, because so often the arms are completely useless. Sadly, I'm in a rather higher Elo bracket in my Assaults, so my opponents know and understand how to exploit the low slung arm disadvantage.

Gotta even out the arms a bit firepowerwise, or dedicate a shield side if you can adequately torso twist (at least avoid losing the stronger side).

It is infinitely easier to go laservomit and split the firepower in on both sides (as much as you can).

[Ace Selin]

Hades Trooper, on 23 June 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

Exe is DOA its that simple.

Max armour and masc and jump jets it's got less pods space than a gargoyle and we know how everyone loves the gargoyle now.

Huge CT, low slung arms, same gargoyle issues.

MASC didn't save the EXE is dead already, period.

Edit : Thought since it's got less pod space than an gargoyle, why would i use an EXE over a gargoyle as the gargoyle runs faster than a EXE does even when it's uses MASC

go figure

Keep trolling dude, despite facts proving you wrong

[FupDup]

Mr. Gargles can only wish that he had mounts like these:





Is it still too late for PGI to do a geometry pass on the Gargles and give him the beard lasers he deserves?

[Ultimax]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm not slamming the mech, it's a solid mech but one in a specific niche. I'm just REALLY bad in it.

I actually have that build on one of my Exec's right now (gauss+lasers). Still just doesn't work for me, because so often the arms are completely useless. Sadly, I'm in a rather higher Elo bracket in my Assaults, so my opponents know and understand how to exploit the low slung arm disadvantage.

Not to be rude man, but I see guys from EmP, SJR, 228th in the queues with their EXEs and making it work.


Is it a completely optimal mech? No, but really side poking with MASC is very good - and I promise you will like the mech a lot better once you have the D pods.

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 24 June 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

Gotta even out the arms a bit firepowerwise, or dedicate a shield side if you can adequately torso twist (at least avoid losing the stronger side).

It is infinitely easier to go laservomit and split the firepower in on both sides (as much as you can).

Yeah, I'm running a split LPL (RT) 6 ERML (both arms) on one, and the sword & board gauss and lasers on another right now.
I still just die, over and over, really quickly. I'm actually kind of surprised, not sure why I'm so very bad at this mech, but I am. It's actually embarassing. I've never been the "lol look at the 200 damage assault!" guy before, so it's a special kind of humiliating.

Ultimatum X, on 24 June 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

Not to be rude man, but I see guys from EmP, SJR, 228th in the queues with their EXEs and making it work.


Is it a completely optimal mech? No, but really side poking with MASC is very good - and I promise you will like the mech a lot better once you have the D pods.

Yeah, I know. As I said, I wasn't slamming the mech at all; I know it's got a lot of potential and can definitely work. I'm just ridiculously bad in it, and that's 100% on me. I just can't cope with those low arms.

Once I've got -D pods, it'll be a lot better for me, as I'll be able to bring enough higher mounted firepower.

Also: once I have the pilot skills, it'll help a lot. As it stands, 68kph and 90 degree twist just isn't enough. Once basics are doubled, that'll help a lot.

But yeah, I'm in no way blaming the mech, it's all me. I'm just absurdly bad at executioners

[Aresye]

Ultimatum X, on 24 June 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

Again, are you seeing Warhawks? Gargoyles? Zeus? Victors? Battlemasters? Atlas? Highlanders?


That's what happens when one or two mechs/builds are so dominantly powerful vs. every other possible option.

I'd rather take a Victor or Warhawk over the Executioner to be quite honest.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm running a split LPL (RT) 6 ERML (both arms) on one, and the sword & board gauss and lasers on another right now.
I still just die, over and over, really quickly. I'm actually kind of surprised, not sure why I'm so very bad at this mech, but I am. It's actually embarassing. I've never been the "lol look at the 200 damage assault!" guy before, so it's a special kind of humiliating.


Yeah, I know. As I said, I wasn't slamming the mech at all; I know it's got a lot of potential and can definitely work. I'm just ridiculously bad in it, and that's 100% on me. I just can't cope with those low arms.

Once I've got -D pods, it'll be a lot better for me, as I'll be able to bring enough higher mounted firepower.

Also: once I have the pilot skills, it'll help a lot. As it stands, 68kph and 90 degree twist just isn't enough. Once basics are doubled, that'll help a lot.

But yeah, I'm in no way blaming the mech, it's all me. I'm just absurdly bad at executioners

Have you run the Gargles yet?

If so, it's the same thing... really, it is.

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 24 June 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

Have you run the Gargles yet?

If so, it's the same thing... really, it is.

No... I didn't get the Gargles, and have no desire to. It looks horrible to me

I only got the EXE because MASC looked awesome - and it IS awesome, so much fun to use. But I don't like fast assaults, I think it's a tremendous waste of tonnage

Aresye Kerensky, on 24 June 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

I'd rather take a Victor or Warhawk over the Executioner to be quite honest.

Yup. I'm *way* better in my Warhawk, personally, or any number of IS mechs. Obviously the DWF, too, but that's a pug-crusher and rarely good (or even usable) in CW.