49 replies to this topic

[Sarlic]

Quote

Oh, and Sarlic, I just dropped with you on Caustic. We were the last two on assault mode. You in your Atlas and me in my 5D. THAT was a pug-tastic drop for me if ever there was one.

Yeah. That match was outstanding. First we were on our own outnumbered with about 5 mechs i believe. Although i am hearing Impaired, you seemed to recognize my actions pretty good. You was a great help with that spider. A valueable contribution.

That match goes into my book with most awesome matches ever. I found that last Hunchie pretty smart though. (Apart from his LRM10x2 and no backup weapons) But with our move to C5 behind that the hill we had cover and i could take out some base defenses out otherwise it would destroy my right leg if i ran into the open to get that Hunchie. I think he tried to lock us through base defenses.

Great match and that is what i like to see more. Unfortunately this is not so common. It's fairly ironic when the team gets dumbed down, the more teamwork you see.

[Ghogiel]

It is impossible to intelligently argue that an entire lance or more of double digit dmg scrubs on the losing team didn't contribute greatly to that loss. At least it contributes more to it being a stomp than anything the enemy team does.

Blaming MM for a loss can also be valid. Most decent players in the game can often see how uphill a game is going to be while waiting for countdown for the match to start. Fact is some matches are hugely stacked one way or the other. PUG LIFE.

[Runenstahl]

mailin, on 24 June 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

One person cannot carry a team, heck even 2 or 3 working together cannot usually carry the rest. The whole team has to work together. If a team isn't working as a team the match will usually end in a loss, especially if the other team IS working as a team.

I completely agree with you on this. And using VOIP in the way you describe is the best way to help your team. Don't give up !
There might be reasons for why your team is not doing what you think it's best. There might be NO reason whatsoever. I don't know. But stay in there and try to lead by example and (most importantly) don't get angry when the team is not following a good plan.

You can use everything that was posted here, be polite and professional and voice your plan as a question and STILL those noobs run of in the wrong direction.

I'm not saying thats your fault if that happens. But I AM saying it's your fault if you actually expect a bunch of random pugs to work a like disciplined unit. Instead I'm asking people to try to assume that many PUG's WILL behave like the wild bunch they are. Once you accept that, you can work with it. Try to look what the "wild ones" are doing and use the "professionals" on your team to support these actions in the best possible way.

Most people who rant about the "poopy team" are supposedly better players / leaders. So I ask them to prove it by being a professional ! And to stop ranting would be a good first step for those people.

There... my own rant is over for now

Edited by Runenstahl, 24 June 2015 - 08:01 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Titannium, on 24 June 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

And because of all this, you can see ONLY enemy loadouts ingame.
why th hell, not your teammates also ? (can be a new key on keyboard). specially on own assaults its a good thing to know.
rly weird its not possible now.

If what I am carrying on my Mech is so important to you, like really important (for what reason I have no idea) then kill yourself quickly and ride along with everyone and then you will know what we are carrying.

P.S. The real reason, assuming of course, we can't see Allied load-out's is because of the Grieving that it would likely generate. Why do "you" (those who just have to know apparently) even care what I am carrying and if you really must know, just ask ffs.

It is not a secret... although I have seen players not say because they think their build is a Secret. A "snowflake special" build...

Edited by Almond Brown, 24 June 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[Almond Brown]

TheNef, on 24 June 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

This has been asked for so many times and would make such a difference, knowing who has what in the lobby could change how things play drastically for a team..

Just ask... wtf... rocket science it is not...

[Lugh]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 June 2015 - 05:25 AM, said:

Sure. But does that mean a person has to be a dbag when they speak up?

Example 1: "Dude, what kind of effing idiot runs a DDC with LURMS and no ECM?!?!?! L2p effing noob!"
Example 2: "Hey, that's an interesting DDC build, but kind of curious why you would drop the ECM?"

Which is more likely to elicit a potentially useful response? Sure the guy could be a dbag himself, in which case, it's on him. Or he could be a noob, and not realize how huge an impact ECM has. Etc. But the first approach shuts him down, and all but guarantees he doesn't listen to you. The second potentially opens a dialogue, that could conceivably rectify his choices in future matches.

Often, in management, and leadership, it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

Most of the CATS that complain and screech the loudest need a Lee Ermy Master Sergeant handling though to get anything done.

The number of people I see complaining about being cursed at astonishes me. If you were doing what the one guy that was trying to organize the team told you to do, he wouldn't be cursing.

Most teams mill about begging for someone to give them direction, and when someone does, they ignore it, through sheer stupidity, cowardice or a combination thereof.

When someone says PUSH D3 NOW, he means for all 12 mechs to go in to D3 NOW, not 2 minutes from now, not never, NOW. Why? Because 12 mechs charging over a rise WILL cause hesitation in the opposing team and it is MUCH harder for them to focus fire an INDIVIDUAL MECH down as there are 12 different people shooting at them as well (and hopefully focusing the correct targets)

KisumiKitsune, on 24 June 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

This is a team based game, your team can very easily drag you under the bus. This "The only thing constant in all the games you lose is you" bullcrap is... bullcrap. Sometimes there's just nothing you can do.


Now while screaming incoherantly isn't likely to get any sort of response, saying something like "Unlock your arms [name]" or "Lead your target more, you're not hitting anything." or "Get your own locks [name] if these keep breaking, you have ARTEMIS anyway." aren't flaming. They are, however, universally ignored. The amount of just baseline ignorant play you see here by people who literally don't know the fundamentals of the game can be infuriating for someone who performs very well themselves consistently, yet ends up on a startling loss streak through no fault of their own. It just drives home the need for two things that would make everything so much better:

-A real, functional tutorial which went into concepts of tactics, not just controls and weapon functions.
-A functioning ELO system that pairs all 24 players of similar ELO (not this team total garbage it seems to be doing with two pros plus ten window lickers supposedly equalling twelve average players), and calculates that ELO based off something more than win ratio.

Until then, team mates can and will be responsible, solely, for losses, and tempers will flare.

Somewhat Bullcrap. You have to look at your stats and be sure that they are the leading stats on your team, if you aren't doing damage ~ 300 a game to be pulling your weight. Then someone else has to pick up that slack.

[ozmodion]

jss78, on 24 June 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

At least in PuG, about 9 cases out of 10 it's the same old -- the Dead Guy Ranting, and at no-one in particular, just the "$hit team" in general.

But then you get these really awful cases, where someone is hurling insults at a specific player -- and for something that's most easily explained by the targeted player being a novice. That's just actively hurting the whole game.

As a general point, I think anyone who gets this worked up over a video game should re-examine their priorities in life.

agreed, i play games to de-stress not stress. do something else like painting mech models or playing the board game

[Novakaine]

Believe it or not you can herd kittens.
Somebody just has to do it.
Tell the scouts to go do some scouts stuff.
Everyone else form up on the assaults.
And roll from there if you sound like know what you're doing the kittens will follow.
Some maps I'm good at some I just plain suck.
So I'll ask who's good at calling this map and someone always steps up.
Every blue moon I'll the old stfu, then I'll simply invite them to go die first.
And tell them that everyone else here wants a win and their in the way.
Just last night I was in a match went bad in the first 3 minutes of the match.
One of those stfu before we even got started.
So I told my lance Nova like's to win so we are rushing the base and slaughter anything that gets in our way.
Crimson Strait was the map.
We killed 2 on the island and 3 more at the cap.
Caps for the win.
It was glorious I had to actually yank my headset off because of all the hoots and howls..
The guy who told me to stfu actually apologized.
That was a fun match.
Teamwork .....well it just works.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

MM broken no need to argue or blame players .

[Kristov Kerensky]

MWO is a team game, from the ground up, it's entirely based on teamwork and coordination.

That said, I usually find that in solo que it's usually 12 individuals vs 12 individuals unless someone steps up and takes control in some manner. When that happens, it CAN become a team effort, or it can become a total Charlie Frank where some of us work as a team and the rest seem to be actively countering our efforts

People will go off, and it's usually their own fault they died but they are quick to blame the rest of the team and/or the MM for that death. It's simply how many people are, especially online, they get all kinds of big brass balls going on, it's a known thing, that anonymity makes them Billy Badass and they'll say things they'd never say in real life. I tend to ignore em, unless they get nasty and personal, in which case I usually tell them to shut up and report them if they get too nasty.

As for stomps, well, if the MM is working properly, you should see more stomps than close games, because evenly matched teams will be quick to take advantage of the first opening they see, and we all know how that snowballs FAST in MWO. Lose 1 Mech and suddenly you find yourself down 6 more in a few minutes, without the enemy losing a single Mech, and it's all downhill at full speed from there. Close games will usually take place because you've got people who don't know wtf they are doing, so they don't take advantage of the openings, so things go slowly, whittling down 1 Mech at a time, and no focused fire. That's simply due to how combat in MWO works, we've all pointed it out at one time or another, but people forget it when it's THEM getting stomped and just blame the MM for a bad team.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lugh, on 24 June 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Most of the CATS that complain and screech the loudest need a Lee Ermy Master Sergeant handling though to get anything done.

The number of people I see complaining about being cursed at astonishes me. If you were doing what the one guy that was trying to organize the team told you to do, he wouldn't be cursing.

Most teams mill about begging for someone to give them direction, and when someone does, they ignore it, through sheer stupidity, cowardice or a combination thereof.

When someone says PUSH D3 NOW, he means for all 12 mechs to go in to D3 NOW, not 2 minutes from now, not never, NOW. Why? Because 12 mechs charging over a rise WILL cause hesitation in the opposing team and it is MUCH harder for them to focus fire an INDIVIDUAL MECH down as there are 12 different people shooting at them as well (and hopefully focusing the correct targets)


Somewhat Bullcrap. You have to look at your stats and be sure that they are the leading stats on your team, if you aren't doing damage ~ 300 a game to be pulling your weight. Then someone else has to pick up that slack.

Can't really agree on the last bit.
When it's you vs 10 pushing enemy 2-3 minutes into the game, even in a DWF it can be near impossible to break 300, let alone in a Medium. To get those 6 kill, 700 put losses means your team was bad, but the opposite was also bad, so that the match drags or for 7-10 minutes.

[Jman5]

Everyone tries to make the key to winning seem so complicated and multifaceted, but it's really quite simple. The losing team does X damage, the winning team does X + Y damage. That Y damage is what separates the two teams and determines the outcome 99% of the time. It can get a little wonky in group queue because tonnage can be mismatched, but in solo queue your weight classes are matched 1:1.

If you want to win more, you need to get your team's total damage up more. The more damage you do personally, the less damage some numbskull on your team needs to do in order to hit that magic number that lets your team win.

The sooner you guys stop pretending that your 100 damage is special because you're an elite navy seal sniper, the more games you will start winning. So my advice is to drop the ego about your accuracy, and focus on getting your raw damage up any way you can.

[Fate 6]

You can always tell who a sore loser is when someone asks for PvE. Some people just can't handle PvP cuz it's too hard and they want to win ezmode all day.

That said, sometimes your team simply sucks. I know it's my fault for doing only 70 damage but if I do 800 with 3 solo kills then it's probably not my fault we lost. I could always do better, but in reality that also applies to anyone. Improving a score from 100 to 300 is often easier than going from 800 to 1000

[Runenstahl]

Fate 6, on 24 June 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

That said, sometimes your team simply sucks. I know it's my fault for doing only 70 damage but if I do 800 with 3 solo kills then it's probably not my fault we lost. I could always do better, but in reality that also applies to anyone. Improving a score from 100 to 300 is often easier than going from 800 to 1000

Yes, sometimes your team sucks. But let's look at your example: you did almost 1000 damage and had several solo kills, while others on your team had did less then 100 damage. That in itself is obviously not your fault. Clearly you used better positioning and where taking advantage of weak points in the enemies lines and all that, while your teammates did not.

But let me ask you this: did you concentrate on getting a good score yourself or did you do your best to help your team to make the best of these opportunities too ? Or where you assuming that they should have seen those weak spots themselves and acted accordingly ? If the latter is the case, then indeed the loss IS partly your fault because you could have helped your team to do better.

People who repeatedly do less then 100 damage clearly have still much to learn about MWO. They don't need us to tell them how bad they are. They need our guidance to get better ! And like Bishop Steiner wrote: try to make an effort to word your advice nicely. Nobody likes to be told what to do.

Edited by Runenstahl, 24 June 2015 - 01:43 PM.

[Tyler Valentine]

Titannium, on 24 June 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

And because of all this, you can see ONLY enemy loadouts ingame.
why th hell, not your teammates also ? (can be a new key on keyboard). specially on own assaults its a good thing to know.
rly weird its not possible now.

Doesn't it seem strange that my targeting computer can detect exactly what weapons the enemy 'mechs have (how does it do that...?) but can't determine my own teammates' load-outs?

[Moldur]

leadership requires followers. There's no stakes in an online game like this. If someone has a 'dumb' plan, I'll usually entertain it. For some reason, a lot of other people think it's below them to go along with it.

[Bulletsponge0]

I think everyone gets frustrated from time to time. I know I do. I just try to keep my rants offline (though not always successfully)

[TheNef]

Almond Brown, on 24 June 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

Just ask... wtf... rocket science it is not...

Indeed and this is the reason it doesn't work .. thanks for the input.

[Kahadras]

I rarely bother complaining in chat as it doesn't really achieve anything. IMHO you have to put some effort into learning how to play the game. I've watched plenty of NGNG and other channels on Youtube in order to try learn how to be a better pilot. I've spent a lot of time in the mechbay tweaking my various mechs. I've put time and effort into mastering chasis and spent hard earned credits to purchase moduals. Basicaly I've done my best to become a good player; trying to gain as much experience as possible and learn from my mistakes.

I'm of the opinion that as long as I did my best each game then I can go away feeling happy (even if we got rolled). There are times where I have to shake my head at the actions of teammates (cowering, suicide runs, going rambo, afk, awful aim etc) but I'm not really that fussed as they usualy get less in game rewards (XP and credits).

[Dingo Battler]

I think tone of voice is pretty important. In 2 memorable matches, there was this one guy who angrily ordered players to do stuff from the start, and when they don't do it, bemoans that he got stuck with an "idiot team"

Sometimes, if you come across as too arrogant, people just do the opposite. In the first match, the guy wanted us to head to a nearby location to meetup before moving forward. What everyone did was to scatter as far across the map as possible. In the second match, someone unloaded a full alpha into his back, after he kept whinging about how we're idiots, ggclose, etc. because we were not sticking close enough to him (this was canyon, all of us was in a single canyon, we were very close) We won the match, via stomp, it was 12-1, with him being the only casualty. The rest of the match was just him angrily screaming expletives while people mocked him on teamspeak.

so the next time before you touch the keyboard, or hold caps lock to angrily order these "noobs" around, do consider that we are not your slaves or servants to order around.

I find that people listen if you ask even in a neutral tone. I do, and people do listen most of the time.

Fate 6, on 24 June 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

You can always tell who a sore loser is when someone asks for PvE. Some people just can't handle PvP cuz it's too hard and they want to win ezmode all day.

That said, sometimes your team simply sucks. I know it's my fault for doing only 70 damage but if I do 800 with 3 solo kills then it's probably not my fault we lost. I could always do better, but in reality that also applies to anyone. Improving a score from 100 to 300 is often easier than going from 800 to 1000

lol. I have a good KDR, and I still want PVE. Pretty sure almost everyone here wants PVE to muck around in. PVE has been the mainstay of mechwarrior till MWO. Sometimes people want a little variety, especially after hundreds of drops in the same few maps, in the same 3 gamemodes.