523 replies to this topic

[EXO-Scorpion]

I listened to RUSS on the podcast of 6/25's town hall.

Mention of a rework and "new" matchmaker coming out in several months, which will use a Different type of Formula with influences from a players "SKILL" rather than the **** sandwich ELO-Math we have now!


But . . .
think about it guys . . .
Really . . .
NO Matter what happens to the matchmaker, nothing will matter in terms of having more "FAIR MATCHES" until the seer number of Players playing MWO reach something like:

5 MILLION!
thats . . .
FIVE MILLION!!
thats . . .
5,000,000!!!

or more!


ONLY THEN, will you have a pool of players mother ******* good enuff for todays ELO-matchmaker or PGI's next matchmaker to put together "Close, Fun, Good ol Matches" and also Greatly REDUCE the Queue times for normal or CW matches!

ONLY THEN . . .

Edited by ExoScorpion650R, 27 June 2015 - 12:23 PM.

[Ahri-the-Fox]

Alistair Winter, on 25 June 2015 - 10:39 PM, said:

Let's face it, a lot of people have tried to introduce their friends to the game by teaming up in the group queue, and have failed miserably because matchmaker puts them up against 6-12 man groups of veterans in hyper pimped Clan mechs, roflstomping and tea-bagging them in less than 3 minutes every time. We should all acknowledge that the new player experience in the group queue is horrible.

So what's your solution? Keep the status quo? Move bigger groups to CW? Maybe create some sort of absolute barrier for the matchmaker, preventing 5-12-man groups from ever getting matched up against low Elo players?

Let's just pretend we (the players) had the ability to solve this problem, for the sake of discussion.

That's exactly the reason i don't play anymore.

I'd like to play with some friends of mine, not necessarely new players, but you can't get a single game where you're not vs 12 others.
so why play then?


and then i see that there is a sale after sale - is PGI getting desperate to get money? huehue
sorry, but i made this kind of thread about 4 months ago and got laughed at.
and now i see this one, and all the sales the last few months - i'm laughing my ass off right now.

i give this game about 18 to 24 months, before it's completely gone, since the ultra elites try to defend their game style.
but that doesn't make it easy for new players to enter, and not easy for the single players, who would like to enjoy a few games with their friends at the weekend.

[TWIAFU]

Mystere, on 27 June 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Walls are much easier.

And smarter.

[Ahri-the-Fox]

Vellron2005, on 26 June 2015 - 01:09 AM, said:

Here's why 12-man premades should NOT ever be removed from CW and PUG group ques...

The reason is simple..

Becouse being in a large group that is organised and actually works together using some actual real-life military tactics brings amazing realism..

it makes us feel like we'r a part of something, like we's part of a team, and like there's a point to all this..

It would be even more so if taking planets in CW would mean something..

Just imagine what it must be like to be a leader of an actual unit, have command over other's actions and tactics, and actually achieving victory... knowing the assault in front of you and the ecm to your left have your back, and your LRM's have theirs..

DO NOT take that away from us...

then play 12 vs 12, but let the single players and small groups play in single players and small groups.

tada, problem solved

oHHHHHH there is actually no other 12 man group? too bad - but don't take the game from those, who actually like it, but can't play coz scumbags in 12 man groups are teabagging everyone

[Ahri-the-Fox]

Triordinant, on 26 June 2015 - 03:25 AM, said:

It's already been proven that groups of ANY size screws up the solo queue. PGI said so and they can see the numbers that we can't. That's why the solo queue will forever be for solos only.

that is ******** of course, srsly.
just match a 2 man team with another 2 man team, 3 vs 3, 4 vs 4.

it's not that big of a deal.

[TWIAFU]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 June 2015 - 05:04 AM, said:

If PGI can keep the doors open, staying true to their original vision and not cater to anyone, I'd continue to support them. Its a team oriented game where the players don't want to be team players.... You don't see a problem with this line of thinking?

Yes. And it is getting worse.

Get rid of 12 man Unit drops - check
Limit Unit sizes to 100 - check.
Limit group sizes to 4 - check.

12 man Unit drops are rolfstomping 1% of the time, stop them from playing. Units are to big and they have to spread the members to other units, even though large solo population that will NOT join a Unit. Groups are not having fun in the group queue getting killed by a larger group, end the larger groups!

What we are witnessing, in real time, is a group/teamwork based game turned into a solo game with a unused and highly restrictive group option.

Mystere, on 27 June 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

I, and I am sure many others, distinctly remember you demanding voip as the fix to your sync dropping bogeyman. But when it was finally implemented, you just changed your tune from units to factions.

Because it was an excuse.

It is funny to see so many finally able to see through his BS.

Jheakryna, on 27 June 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

then play 12 vs 12, but let the single players and small groups play in single players and small groups.

tada, problem solved

oHHHHHH there is actually no other 12 man group? too bad - but don't take the game from those, who actually like it, but can't play coz scumbags in 12 man groups are teabagging everyone

Maybe you should go READ for yourself how the MM works.

By your post you clearly do not.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Jheakryna, on 27 June 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

then play 12 vs 12, but let the single players and small groups play in single players and small groups.

tada, problem solved

oHHHHHH there is actually no other 12 man group? too bad - but don't take the game from those, who actually like it, but can't play coz scumbags in 12 man groups are teabagging everyone

So, you mean you want to play in a small group but you do NOT want to face another actual group, just lots of other little small groups who don't actually coordinate and play as a team, got it.

And this is the problem ladies and gentlemen, people want to play in the group que but they don't want to face anyone playing as a TEAM.

We don't have enough 12 mans to be doing all the stomping that is reported, Russ confirmed that, it's a bs argument, people are NOT getting stomped by 12 mans, they are getting stomped by small groups acting as a single team.

I'd LOVE for the matchmaker to sort the group que by sizes, putting 2 mans with only other 2 mans, and so on, but the problem is, we don't have enough players in group que to allow that due to the NUMBERS alone. Now, even if we DID have the numbers, the end results would be no different, because some of the people who do group drops want to play as a TEAM, not as a bunch of 2 mans who ignore everyone else on their side, so stomps will continue to happen.

We've SEEN this, people forget that, we HAD a 4 man limit, and stomps happened just as often as they do now, people complained just as much, if not more, than they do now. That is why PGI finally said to hell with it and made the group que 2-10/12 because restricting the group size did NOT stop the stomps from happening and the people from whining, REMEMBER?

If Russ removes 12 mans from the group que, he's going to remove EVERYTHING but 2-4 mans from the group que, there will be nothing but 2-4 man groups dropping and getting combined to make 12 man drops. He's not even going to bother with a 5 or more option for group que, because the data has already shown that it doesn't make a damn bit of difference, stomps will continue to happen and people will continue to whine, but since it's ONLY 2-4 possible, he can just tell everyone to STFU, stomps are happening because you suck and refuse to work as a team, only he may say it a little more politely.

THEN what will you whiners use as your excuse for getting stomped? That's a real question btw, we already know the 12 man bogeyman is a fallacy, so when that's removed TOTALLY from the equation, along with 5-10, what will you say is the reason you keep getting stomped when the other side works as a team and you keep refusing to do so?

I'll lay odds here and now that it will be 'sync dropping' as the next bogeyman, since we've already got Mudhut crusading about that in the solo que, he'll switch it to include the revamped group que as well, complete with his 'proof' that no one gets to see. Anyone else have a forecast on what the next bogeyman would be if group que is again dropped to 4 man max?

[Elkarlo]

One Remark:
Why do most players play Solo?
Because you have a pretty good Chance to be Roflstomped by 3x4 Team and a worse constellation like a 9-12 man Group.

Thats maybe a big Downer for Group Play.
So the players play only PUG lists in solo and not CW.
Because every 3rd Game you get rofl stomped.

No training in small Groupd with new Players...
so nothing against the steep learning kurve.
Small Teams would help.

This means the Players Base will shrink further, Elo MM will get even worse as it needs more players...


So we need some mechanism to Protect small Groups. May allow 2x2 Groups into Solo queue on each side.
So 2x2 Players playing together with 8 Solo players on each side, together with Voicechat it won't imbalance anything.

This would introduce the Solo players to Group play in a small manageable base.

And for NON CW maybe limit the Group Size.

But give 2 man Teams a 80% chance ending up in a Solo Queue on even odds would help to refresh the Player Base
to help out of the shrinking players base by allowing veterans to help newbies by playing together.
And with more players playing in Groups the Groups queue won't be so f***** up as it is ATM.

Over and Out
Elkrlo

Edited by Elkarlo, 27 June 2015 - 12:56 PM.

[TWIAFU]

Kristov Kerensky, on 27 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

So, you mean you want to play in a small group but you do NOT want to face another actual group, just lots of other little small groups who don't actually coordinate and play as a team, got it.

And this is the problem ladies and gentlemen, people want to play in the group que but they don't want to face anyone playing as a TEAM.

We don't have enough 12 mans to be doing all the stomping that is reported, Russ confirmed that, it's a bs argument, people are NOT getting stomped by 12 mans, they are getting stomped by small groups acting as a single team.

I'd LOVE for the matchmaker to sort the group que by sizes, putting 2 mans with only other 2 mans, and so on, but the problem is, we don't have enough players in group que to allow that due to the NUMBERS alone. Now, even if we DID have the numbers, the end results would be no different, because some of the people who do group drops want to play as a TEAM, not as a bunch of 2 mans who ignore everyone else on their side, so stomps will continue to happen.

We've SEEN this, people forget that, we HAD a 4 man limit, and stomps happened just as often as they do now, people complained just as much, if not more, than they do now. That is why PGI finally said to hell with it and made the group que 2-10/12 because restricting the group size did NOT stop the stomps from happening and the people from whining, REMEMBER?

If Russ removes 12 mans from the group que, he's going to remove EVERYTHING but 2-4 mans from the group que, there will be nothing but 2-4 man groups dropping and getting combined to make 12 man drops. He's not even going to bother with a 5 or more option for group que, because the data has already shown that it doesn't make a damn bit of difference, stomps will continue to happen and people will continue to whine, but since it's ONLY 2-4 possible, he can just tell everyone to STFU, stomps are happening because you suck and refuse to work as a team, only he may say it a little more politely.

THEN what will you whiners use as your excuse for getting stomped? That's a real question btw, we already know the 12 man bogeyman is a fallacy, so when that's removed TOTALLY from the equation, along with 5-10, what will you say is the reason you keep getting stomped when the other side works as a team and you keep refusing to do so?

I'll lay odds here and now that it will be 'sync dropping' as the next bogeyman, since we've already got Mudhut crusading about that in the solo que, he'll switch it to include the revamped group que as well, complete with his 'proof' that no one gets to see. Anyone else have a forecast on what the next bogeyman would be if group que is again dropped to 4 man max?

Well said!!!

It will be the Group, of course. Won't matter the size, just that people are working together will be the new boogeyman.

So, forming a group will have the end and we will have come full circle blaming everything on the Group, Units, PUGS, Solo, MM, ELO, TS, sync dropping, aim-bots, cheats, and hacks all the while looking through a one way mirror to avoid the real problem.

Elkarlo, on 27 June 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

One Remark:
Why do most players play Solo?
Because you have a pretty good Chance to be Roflstomped by 3x4 Team and a worse constellation like a 9-12 man Group.

Stopped reading when you posted you have no clue on the MM.

[Eider]

To be honest? I dont think fans enjoy 12 man groups as much as you say. Want proof? CW, hows the population doing there? terrible? yes its pretty terrible. People love to stomp rather than a challenge but its just not healthy for the game honestly.

[Lazor Sharp]

adding 2 mans to the solo que is a good thing up to a point...

and that point is where all the MUD's will start bitching about uber leet 2 mans rekin everybody, and seal clubbing all the cute little puggies, because they don't have to sync drop any more.............................

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 27 June 2015 - 01:44 PM.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 27 June 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

Hey, he reminds me of some hilarious clown running for President.

This guy?

[TWIAFU]

Eider, on 27 June 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

To be honest? I dont think fans enjoy 12 man groups as much as you say. Want proof? CW, hows the population doing there? terrible? yes its pretty terrible. People love to stomp rather than a challenge but its just not healthy for the game honestly.

You want a challenge, get 11 of your Unit together and drop against another 12 man.

Since your late to the party, already been disproven that this 12 man Unit stomp is a total fabrication. A lie.

[Mystere]

Kristov Kerensky, on 27 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

If Russ removes 12 mans from the group que, he's going to remove EVERYTHING but 2-4 mans from the group que, there will be nothing but 2-4 man groups dropping and getting combined to make 12 man drops. He's not even going to bother with a 5 or more option for group que, because the data has already shown that it doesn't make a damn bit of difference, stomps will continue to happen and people will continue to whine, but since it's ONLY 2-4 possible, he can just tell everyone to STFU, stomps are happening because you suck and refuse to work as a team, only he may say it a little more politely.

I wish Russ would just go for the jugular and flatly tell these whiners they simply suck balls. Sometimes, you have to eventually make a stand instead of pleasing the impossible to please.

[Mystere]

Elkarlo, on 27 June 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

One Remark:
Why do most players play Solo?
Because you have a pretty good Chance to be Roflstomped by 3x4 Team and a worse constellation like a 9-12 man Group.

Thats maybe a big Downer for Group Play.
So the players play only PUG lists in solo and not CW.
Because every 3rd Game you get rofl stomped.

No training in small Groupd with new Players...
so nothing against the steep learning kurve.
Small Teams would help.

This means the Players Base will shrink further, Elo MM will get even worse as it needs more players...

So we need some mechanism to Protect small Groups. May allow 2x2 Groups into Solo queue on each side.
So 2x2 Players playing together with 8 Solo players on each side, together with Voicechat it won't imbalance anything.

This would introduce the Solo players to Group play in a small manageable base.

And for NON CW maybe limit the Group Size.

But give 2 man Teams a 80% chance ending up in a Solo Queue on even odds would help to refresh the Player Base
to help out of the shrinking players base by allowing veterans to help newbies by playing together.
And with more players playing in Groups the Groups queue won't be so f***** up as it is ATM.

Over and Out
Elkrlo

Considering personal responsibility is not even close to a thing for much of the player base, I suspect they will just find another bogeyman.

[Wintersdark]

TWIAFU, on 27 June 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

Because it was an excuse.

It is funny to see so many finally able to see through his BS.

Well, that's always been the case. Nobody has ever thought Mudhut was a font of wisdom and rational ideas.

[Clint Steel]

If people made lances, and then could soft group those lances together into Larger Groups, this would allow MatchMaker to break up the Large Group into the smaller lances if there was not competition, or keep them together if there was.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Elkarlo, on 27 June 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

One Remark:
Why do most players play Solo?
Because you have a pretty good Chance to be Roflstomped by 3x4 Team and a worse constellation like a 9-12 man Group.

Thats maybe a big Downer for Group Play.
So the players play only PUG lists in solo and not CW.
Because every 3rd Game you get rofl stomped.

No training in small Groupd with new Players...
so nothing against the steep learning kurve.
Small Teams would help.

This means the Players Base will shrink further, Elo MM will get even worse as it needs more players...


So we need some mechanism to Protect small Groups. May allow 2x2 Groups into Solo queue on each side.
So 2x2 Players playing together with 8 Solo players on each side, together with Voicechat it won't imbalance anything.

This would introduce the Solo players to Group play in a small manageable base.

And for NON CW maybe limit the Group Size.

But give 2 man Teams a 80% chance ending up in a Solo Queue on even odds would help to refresh the Player Base
to help out of the shrinking players base by allowing veterans to help newbies by playing together.
And with more players playing in Groups the Groups queue won't be so f***** up as it is ATM.

Over and Out
Elkrlo

The majority of people play solo because they don't want to be bothered with playing as part of a team, pure and simple.

And that is fine in a non-team oriented PvP style game like Quake or Unreal, but this isn't one of those now is it. And people want to play it JUST LIKE THOSE NON-TEAM ORIENTED GAMES and are forcing their playstyle on the rest of us.

And you really think you'd be able to get 2 mans into the solo que? After complaining about groups stomping them, you REALLY think that has a snowball's chance in hell in July of happening?

Waiter, whatever he's had, I'll have a double.

Eider, on 27 June 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

To be honest? I dont think fans enjoy 12 man groups as much as you say. Want proof? CW, hows the population doing there? terrible? yes its pretty terrible. People love to stomp rather than a challenge but its just not healthy for the game honestly.

CW isn't played by most people because it SUCKS as a game mode. LONG que times, small rewards for the time spent waiting. And it's just TDM with respawns and objectives, so it's exactly like playing Assault, only it takes longer to get a game and longer to play the game for LESS rewards!

Not to mention that CW offers NOTHING in the way of incentives to deal with the downsides. No extra cbills for taking and holding a planet, no cheaper prices on Mechs or hardware, nothing at all, so what's the point? Longer wait times, less rewards and no incentives.

THAT is why CW is empty, it has nothing to do with people not wanting to drop as a 12 man. 12 mans have been happening for a while, they've always been the minority group of the playerbase, but they've ALWAYS been part of it. They would be a bigger part of it IF CW was worth playing. As it stands now, 12 mans can get a drop faster in the group que, and get better rewards in less time on top of that, so why would they drop in CW?

And a little news for ya sparky, the actual big units that drop 12 mans HATE stomping newbs, it's boring, it's not fun and it's bad for the unit's morale because all they hear is how the big bad groups are ****** all the newbs, clubbing the baby seals, they are horrible, they are evil, they hate everyone not in their elite special club. ********! Large units WANT more members, you need more members so you can ALWAYS field a full drop when needed for a tourney or competition. You can't recruit very well when everyone in the community hates you because you club the newbs with glee and make fun of them while doing it! Only 1 group did that in MWO, the Goonies and their assorted attached units. That was their MO however, same as it was in Eve, they are griefers who want to drive people from the game. Their own stated aim in MWO was to drive everyone away from it and make the game die, they said that on the forums, ingame, and in their own forums in other areas online. They are gone, PGI got fed up and banned the majority of them for their bs, so there aren't any of the big teams doing that anymore, but that doesn't stop little whiners from constantly repeating it now does it?

[R Razor]

In my opinion the best fix for the problem is for Match Maker to base matches on GROUP SIZE only............if one side has a 6 man, 4 man and 2 man then the other should have a 6 man, 4 man and a 2 man.............if player want to play in a 10 or 12 man then they should be matched against other 10 or 12 man groups only........the larger group may take longer to get a match but I'm okay with that.

With a few exceptions, most guys in the larger groups don't get much enjoyment out of farming puglandia..........of course there are exceptions but most people that have been around awhile can identify them pretty easily,

Making the MM behave like that would completely eliminate the perception that your multiple small group team just got rolfstomped by an organized large group and I believe it would engender better balanced matches overall as well.

[Mystere]

The real problem is this, not the 12-man bogeyman:

R Razor, on 27 June 2015 - 03:25 PM, said:

In my opinion the best fix for the problem is for Match Maker to base matches on GROUP SIZE only............if one side has a 6 man, 4 man and 2 man then the other should have a 6 man, 4 man and a 2 man.............if player want to play in a 10 or 12 man then they should be matched against other 10 or 12 man groups only........the larger group may take longer to get a match but I'm okay with that.

With a few exceptions, most guys in the larger groups don't get much enjoyment out of farming puglandia..........of course there are exceptions but most people that have been around awhile can identify them pretty easily,

Making the MM behave like that would completely eliminate the perception that your multiple small group team just got rolfstomped by an organized large group and I believe it would engender better balanced matches overall as well.

Are you really willing to wait for 30 minutes or longer for such perfect match ups?