523 replies to this topic

[9thDeathscream]

12 mans are rare. its the 5-10 size groups that do the damage.

What the problem is, with steam coming we want to keep new players. Having stomps in the group queue is only going turn away new players.

So maybe the large groups take one for the community for a while to let the steam players get their s*&t together and then after a few months re adjust the group sizes.

Either that or have people join the game, go f*&k this S$%t to hard and leave.

Want more players and more groups,eventually larger groups. Then go easy on the new people in the group queue.

[Mystere]

Akulla1980, on 27 June 2015 - 11:25 PM, said:

12 mans are rare. its the 5-10 size groups that do the damage.

What the problem is, with steam coming we want to keep new players. Having stomps in the group queue is only going turn away new players.

So maybe the large groups take one for the community for a while to let the steam players get their s*&t together and then after a few months re adjust the group sizes.

Either that or have people join the game, go f*&k this S$%t to hard and leave.

Want more players and more groups,eventually larger groups. Then go easy on the new people in the group queue.

Once again, it is not right to marginalize a small section of the player base just to appease a bigger one. I call that Tyranny of the Majority.

And have people already forgotten that the large groups have already taken a few for the community? As such, why should they be compelled to take another?

[9thDeathscream]

Mystere, on 28 June 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

Once again, it is not right to marginalize a small section of the player base just to appease a bigger one. I call that Tyranny of the Majority.

And have people already forgotten that the large groups have already taken a few for the community? As such, why should they be compelled to take another?

Well either you want more players or you don't. More players = More matches, better Match Making and eventually more larger groups which will benefit the Group and CW queues.

Keep the group queue the way it is and forget it. Keep gradually loosing players and not replacing them with new meat!

[bad arcade kitty]

Akulla1980, on 27 June 2015 - 11:25 PM, said:

12 mans are rare. its the 5-10 size groups that do the damage.

What the problem is, with steam coming we want to keep new players. Having stomps in the group queue is only going turn away new players.

So maybe the large groups take one for the community for a while to let the steam players get their s*&t together and then after a few months re adjust the group sizes.

Either that or have people join the game, go f*&k this S$%t to hard and leave.

Want more players and more groups,eventually larger groups. Then go easy on the new people in the group queue.

duogroups especially those of new players could be added to soloq...

also stomps are real, there is one twitch channel which never lags to me but which is very boring to watch because it's almost constant stomps in the group queue

[Joseph Mallan]

This is what is wrong.

Bad player: I hope this team doesn't suck.

Me and bad player die 4 minutes into teh match, the rest of the team soon follows.

Bad player whines cause he was saddled with a stupid team... Again!

"Hey Sparky? Did you take command and lead us?"

*silence*

"I don't remember seeing/hearing you except to insult the team."

*Silence*

"You cannot complain if you do nothing at all to inspire teamwork."

Sparky has 102 damage, I had 150ish... Difference is I know I did bad and Sparky thinks its our fault he died!

Wasn't even a 3 man team that kicked our butts!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 28 June 2015 - 02:36 AM.

[TWIAFU]

R Razor, on 27 June 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

It isn't about me, I'm well above positive in kills and wins..........it's about the New Players coming into the game. It's about not allowing people like you to seal club them with your large groups that practice together while they try and group up with random strangers they've rarely, if ever, played with before.

Again with this?

The 12man Unit rolfstomp has been proven FALSE. It is the 12man Skirmish (12 man made up of smaller groups) team that is rolfstomping new players. You have to stop small groups from forming a large. Yes, that mean you and your couple of buddies cannot group anymore because you are doing the farming, not the 12 man unit boogeyman.

And if SOLO NEW PLAYERS are joining the group queue in trails, wtf did they think was going to happen? I know, they complain about the other team and how and what they do is evil and has to be nerfed.

[TWIAFU]

R Razor, on 27 June 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

No, the analogy fits just fine............a group that plays together, practices together and communicates well is always going to have an advantage over a mixed group that doesn't do those things............and mixed groups of 2 man and 4 man or whatever combination playing against 7 - 10 or 12 man groups of players that consistently play and practice together and that do communicate effectively are in imbalance that can be corrected.

There is no reason of any kind to subject a new player to fighting against such odds immediately upon booting the game up. Let the guy play in small groups against other small groups until HE decides he's ready (if he ever does) to join a larger unit.

I don't understand why you guys are so afraid of that concept..........is it because you're afraid you'd have to wait longer (most like will actually) to get a match and you're impatient? Is it because you're terrified that you might actually have to fight an opponent on closer to equal ground than you have been? I'm honestly not sure.

People that play together do well together, that is a no brainer for most of us here and still needs to be taught to a great deal more.

So, you want to save the "new player" from groups until he is ready to join a group. So, during that "new players" cadet training, make it so he can ONLY do solo queue. Only after the cadet training he can join the group queue. Make it so he has to hit a checkbox to accept and a disclaimer that group queue is for groups and solo will have a far harder time of it.

There, new player saved from himself and will know what he is getting into and you do not have to mess with everyone else, just that new player.

[TWIAFU]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 June 2015 - 02:36 AM, said:

This is what is wrong.

Bad player: I hope this team doesn't suck.

Me and bad player die 4 minutes into teh match, the rest of the team soon follows.

Bad player whines cause he was saddled with a stupid team... Again!

"Hey Sparky? Did you take command and lead us?"

*silence*

"I don't remember seeing/hearing you except to insult the team."

*Silence*

"You cannot complain if you do nothing at all to inspire teamwork."

Sparky has 102 damage, I had 150ish... Difference is I know I did bad and Sparky thinks its our fault he died!

Wasn't even a 3 man team that kicked our butts!

Were one way mirrors handed out to these people at birth?

[bad arcade kitty]

TWIAFU, on 28 June 2015 - 03:38 AM, said:

People that play together do well together, that is a no brainer for most of us here and still needs to be taught to a great deal more.

So, you want to save the "new player" from groups until he is ready to join a group. So, during that "new players" cadet training, make it so he can ONLY do solo queue. Only after the cadet training he can join the group queue. Make it so he has to hit a checkbox to accept and a disclaimer that group queue is for groups and solo will have a far harder time of it.

There, new player saved from himself and will know what he is getting into and you do not have to mess with everyone else, just that new player.

consider this thread http://mwomercs.com/...co-op-friendly/

>I've been thinking of starting playing this game, and wanted to bring my friends into it as well. Two of which are veteran World of Tanks players. I was wondering how easy it is to play this game in groups...

poor soul

some people want to play with their friends from the very beginning

[IraqiWalker]

Akulla1980, on 27 June 2015 - 11:25 PM, said:

12 mans are rare. its the 5-10 size groups that do the damage.

What the problem is, with steam coming we want to keep new players. Having stomps in the group queue is only going turn away new players.

So maybe the large groups take one for the community for a while to let the steam players get their s*&t together and then after a few months re adjust the group sizes.

Either that or have people join the game, go f*&k this S$%t to hard and leave.

Want more players and more groups,eventually larger groups. Then go easy on the new people in the group queue.

The large groups have ALWAYS been taking one for the community. What we need is for CW to have an entry restriction to prevent new players from getting in, getting annihilated, not coming back, and ruining the matches for other players.

I'm not blaming new players for anything. They don't know CW is end-game play. Not their fault.

What I'm really sick and tired of, is people being so friggin anti-social that they want to turn the one place where groups finally have a home into solo queue 2.0.

I swear, I feel like the player base wants to be hand-fed everything.

The public group queue already has restrictions, I wouldn't mind if they split it into 2 man, 4 man, and 8 man queues. However, CW should NOT have separate queues.

Or let 2&3 mans get into the solo queue. 4+ stay in the group queue (this means that if a group forms a lance, they are significantly more likely to run into other premade lances.


Seriously, THE BIGGEST problem in this game is the player base. Followed by PGI not implementing any kind of access restriction. I know it sounds cool that you can hop into a mech, and jump wherever you want as soon as you sign in, but that's not a good thing. Players see they can access CW, they think it's welcoming to them, since they're new, and they are allowed into it anyways. That's a recipe for disaster.


Put access restrictions on some things that new players shouldn't enter until they are ready, and this will improve their experience a lot. That way, they know this is a serious thing, and when they enter, and get burninated, they know "Oh, well, I'm new to this mode. of course I'll get roasted". Instead of thinking "This is BS, and broken!"

For CW, I really want a minimum of 100 matches, AND the 4 mechs in the drop deck should have AT LEAST either full basics, or full elites (I think Basics would be much easier to achieve, so players can hop in, and still be effective).

Edited by IraqiWalker, 28 June 2015 - 03:59 AM.

[Johnny Z]

IraqiWalker, on 28 June 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

The large groups have ALWAYS been taking one for the community. What we need is for CW to have an entry restriction to prevent new players from getting in, getting annihilated, not coming back, and ruining the matches for other players.

I'm not blaming new players for anything. They don't know CW is end-game play. Not their fault.

What I'm really sick and tired of, is people being so friggin anti-social that they want to turn the one place where groups finally have a home into solo queue 2.0.

I swear, I feel like the player base wants to be hand-fed everything.

The public group queue already has restrictions, I wouldn't mind if they split it into 2 man, 4 man, and 8 man queues. However, CW should NOT have separate queues.

Or let 2&3 mans get into the solo queue. 4+ stay in the group queue (this means that if a group forms a lance, they are significantly more likely to run into other premade lances.


Seriously, THE BIGGEST problem in this game is the player base. Followed by PGI not implementing any kind of access restriction. I know it sounds cool that you can hop into a mech, and jump wherever you want as soon as you sign in, but that's not a good thing. Players see they can access CW, they think it's welcoming to them, since they're new, and they are allowed into it anyways. That's a recipe for disaster.


Put access restrictions on some things that new players shouldn't enter until they are ready, and this will improve their experience a lot. That way, they know this is a serious thing, and when they enter, and get burninated, they know "Oh, well, I'm new to this mode. of course I'll get roasted". Instead of thinking "This is BS, and broken!"

For CW, I really want a minimum of 100 matches, AND the 4 mechs in the drop deck should have AT LEAST either full basics, or full elites (I think Basics would be much easier to achieve, so players can hop in, and still be effective).

Your half right and I am sure everyone agrees a newbie going onto the faction map wont be a thing going into the future. Just common sense dont need a crystal ball to know Mechwarrior is going to do something about that. Its in beta now so it is in fact broken/half done anyway so thats just the way it is until its done.

Alot of game basics were included with Phase 1.(guilds etc) Fact is the Galaxy map isnt even close to being half done. Thats taken from what has been said they are going to add. Its going to get way way better.

On the bright side when all the regular queue maps are added to the galaxy map then boom way better right off the bat. Thats in Phase 3 someone said which isnt to long of a wait. Scouting missions and 4 v 4.

Contrary to the topic title 12 mans are a great thing for this game and everyone agrees. All groups are. Solos to. Just wanted to restate that.

To point out something else. The first regular queue map that would be capable of being added to the galaxy map is coming out july 7th. Its larger and improved visually and dropship capable etc. and they already started on the others.

Edited by Johnny Z, 28 June 2015 - 04:28 AM.

[Scyther]

This is an MM problem, not a map/skill/NPE issue (even though I agree that the NPE needs drastic work).

Simply make the MM only allow matches where the max group size on one side is balanced by a group of *no less than* 2 smaller on the opposing side. So a 12-man would go up against a 10-man minimum. An 8 vs a 6. A 7-man group needs at least a 5 on the other side.

It would need a small tweak to keep 3 4-mans from going up against some 2's and a bunch of soloes, but other than that this simple change should at least keep the matches even enough that skill counts vs. sheer size of the largest group.

The downside would be... longer waits for large groups until a group can be formed. For 1-7% of the players to wait longer so that ALL players (including themselves) can have better matches - seems a small price to pay.

[Haji1096]

I would like an observer mode, where I could just ride in another players cockpit and offer advice.

[Jon Gotham]

Mystere, on 28 June 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

Once again, it is not right to marginalize a small section of the player base just to appease a bigger one. I call that Tyranny of the Majority.

And have people already forgotten that the large groups have already taken a few for the community? As such, why should they be compelled to take another?

That's just it though mate, they don't care about anyone else but themselves. People's idleness got rewarded with the solo q-which has bred extremely bad habits into the playerbase...the results of which are evident in both the group queue and CW. It's also bred some of the most bratty, self-entitled rubbish I have ever seen on the forums..ME ME ME ME MINE!

Akulla1980, on 28 June 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:

Well either you want more players or you don't. More players = More matches, better Match Making and eventually more larger groups which will benefit the Group and CW queues.

Keep the group queue the way it is and forget it. Keep gradually loosing players and not replacing them with new meat!

More players does not always lead to better gameplay, if we get more of what we have already then the gameplay will remain AWFUL in solo and group queues. Also your thinking over eventual larger groups is flawed? Want to know why?
If soloing is made easier,then that's what people will do-because it's easy and they are lazy. Path of least resistance to instant gratification. It'll also be easier for PGI to keep churning out mechs and packs relying on player turnover-these sort of games when they hit a certain level of uber casual stop caring about keeping players...you really want that?
Don't you want more from MWO than endless team solomatch? Call of Duty exists for that purpose and the like...
The playerbase in this game has proven itself to be idle, lazy and with no sense of responsibility whatsoever. NOTHING is their own fault.
Can't bothered to speak? It's the evil voiper's fault!
Can't be bothered to be social? It's the evil premades' fault!
Can't be bothered to learn some more finesse? It's the tryhards' fault!

Bottom line=I can't be bothered-it's ANYONE ELSE'S fault.
PGI PLZ CHANGE GAME NAO.

MWO as a team based game, or as potentially more than it is now-is screwed. it is not PGI's fault, it's us the players and the non-community of team soloists. I thought WOT players were the dross of the online gaming community-but at least they know what teamwork is.

Edited by kamiko kross, 28 June 2015 - 06:19 AM.

[R Razor]

TWIAFU, on 28 June 2015 - 03:31 AM, said:

Again with this?

The 12man Unit rolfstomp has been proven FALSE. It is the 12man Skirmish (12 man made up of smaller groups) team that is rolfstomping new players. You have to stop small groups from forming a large. Yes, that mean you and your couple of buddies cannot group anymore because you are doing the farming, not the 12 man unit boogeyman.

And if SOLO NEW PLAYERS are joining the group queue in trails, wtf did they think was going to happen? I know, they complain about the other team and how and what they do is evil and has to be nerfed.

I can only assume you're being willfully ignorant.........this isn't only about 12 man teams...........it's about coordinated large teams being matched against smaller groups of teams.....a group of 7-10 (or yes, the occasional 12) being matched against groups of 2-4 is what needs to end. Try and wrap your meager intellect around that or stop responding to my posts because you are obviously not capable or responding to the SUBJECT I am posting about.

[Lazor Sharp]

once again, PvE with Co Op would solve this newb's and 2 man's stomped by coordinated group's problem.......and that cant happen soon enough....!!!!!!

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 28 June 2015 - 08:38 AM.

[Zolaz]

Stomps are going to happen just as often without 12 mans as with 12 man groups. Stomps happen when a team acts more coordinated than the other team. If your team is able to concentrate fire on lone mechs then you are going to win. If you have team mates who run off by themselves or get wolf packed then your team is going to lose.

Bad pilots make bad decisions.

[R Razor]

Why are people fixated on the number 12?????

It isn't about 12 mans people, it's about the MM putting coordinated larger groups against uncoordinated smaller groups............it's a very simple concept that some of you can't seem to comprehend.

Are you all so afraid that your 6, 7 or 10 man isn't capable of winning if you had to fight against other 6, 7 or 10 man groups?

It's quite simple, match the GROUP SIZES on each side, stop making matches where a large group fights against groups consisting of multiple 2 - 4 man teams..............if team A is 3 x 4 man groups then team B should be 3 x 4 man groups, not a 7, 3 and 2, not a 10 an 2 etc.....

Edited by R Razor, 28 June 2015 - 09:08 AM.

[TWIAFU]

R Razor, on 28 June 2015 - 07:17 AM, said:

I can only assume you're being willfully ignorant.........this isn't only about 12 man teams...........it's about coordinated large teams being matched against smaller groups of teams.....a group of 7-10 (or yes, the occasional 12) being matched against groups of 2-4 is what needs to end. Try and wrap your meager intellect around that or stop responding to my posts because you are obviously not capable or responding to the SUBJECT I am posting about.

We get it, you only want uncoordinated and teamwork devoid people playing each other.

Isnt that the solo queue?

Well, since you only want coordinated team of 7-10 to play each other and the 2-4 are not allowed to play with or against them, who is going to fill out the remaining? A group of 2-5? But wait, 2-4 group cannot be matched against a 7-10.

Now what?

R Razor, on 28 June 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

Why are people fixated on the number 12?????

It isn't about 12 mans people, it's about the MM putting coordinated larger groups against uncoordinated smaller groups............it's a very simple concept that some of you can't seem to comprehend.

Are you all so afraid that your 6, 7 or 10 man isn't capable of winning if you had to fight against other 6, 7 or 10 man groups?

It's quite simple, match the GROUP SIZES on each side, stop making matches where a large group fights against groups consisting of multiple 2 - 4 man teams..............if team A is 3 x 4 man groups then team B should be 3 x 4 man groups, not a 7, 3 and 2, not a 10 an 2 etc.....

If only those smaller group had a way, in game, to coordinate. That would help them don't you think? Maybe if we could get a Faction wide chat in place, that way they could talk to the Faction and get more pilots and coordinate. Ok, maybe not. Maybe if we could get PGI to add a in-game VOIP function. That way all those uncoordinated smaller groups could communicate, in real time, with each other. That would really help them out a lot! Maybe we could even get some sort of LFG tool where someone could log in, hit the LFG and in no time be in a group and be able to coordinate.

Don't you think getting some of that in game would really help coordination?

Unless, of course, nerfing teamwork/coordination is just another excuse or boogeyman for just not wanting to put forth any effort into improving ones own gameplay.

Have yourself a great day sweetheart.

Edited by TWIAFU, 28 June 2015 - 09:21 AM.

[Mystere]

TWIAFU, on 28 June 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

Were one way mirrors handed out to these people at birth?

Not mirrors, just a life-long collection of these since childbirth: