76 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

According to the Town Hall notes posted on Reddit, Russ is thinking about removing turrets from the Assault game mode.

Quote

probably take turrets out of Assault modes, never really added to mode. Remove tactics from mode.. want to re-introduce tactics so its definitely different from skirmish.

All I have to say is HELL YEAH because I still fondly remember Assault matches where teams had to actually give a crap about their base ever, and it was fun playing them in my Jenner when I was still pretty new to the game. When turrets came in because people could not stop crying about light mech wolf packs, I was very disappointed by the extremely heavy handed change because that was also when Skirmish mode was implemented, and if people didn't want an objective to defend then they could just queue up for Skirmish only and leave the other modes alone.

I do realize that turrets have been nerfed at least once or twice, but not only are they still too much of a threat to light mechs because facing the turrets + any defending enemies is simply too much, the turrets also spot any enemies for their whole team to see so that surprise maneuvers are often completely ruined, and as a result I can only recall about 3 games in the last several months where either team tried to cap the enemy base as a game winning tactic.

I'm sure people will ***** and moan about needing to actually defend their base because it's different from what they are now used to, but the only proper answer is to say "deal with it or don't play Assault." This will definitely change how the mode is played because needing to care about your base objective necessitates playing differently and it will make scouting much more important because if you don't see where the enemy is then they might be heading for your base, which I had fun doing before turrets ruined it.

I wish this happened sooner because the effect it has had on Assault has been severe and pronounced right from the start, and it's a major sore point for me personally because it completely ruined the game mode and just turned it into Skirmish lite.

I do realize removing turrets hasn't actually been confirmed yet, but that is partly why I made this thread because I wholeheartedly support removing turrets from Assault, and to the players who don't want this then my mantra will be "go play Skirmish."

Edited by Pjwned, 27 June 2015 - 12:00 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

They will remove the turrets from *the ground* and replace the base with this:

Edited by Hit the Deck, 27 June 2015 - 01:01 AM.

[Yosharian]

Nothing wrong with the idea of turrets defending the base, its their range, target sharing and magic-1km-anti-ECM ability that is the problem.

Take those away and turrets are fine.

[Nightshade24]

Hit the Deck, on 27 June 2015 - 12:59 AM, said:

They will remove the turrets from *the ground* and replace the base with this:

actually from memory it's a new game mode, not a replacer =P

[SirLANsalot]

Yosharian, on 27 June 2015 - 01:07 AM, said:

Nothing wrong with the idea of turrets defending the base, its their range, target sharing and magic-1km-anti-ECM ability that is the problem.

Take those away and turrets are fine.

If they didn't see though ECM, they would be pointless. The target spotting system lets them tell you that HAY YOUR BASE IS BEING FLANKED YOU MIGHT WANT TO RTB!!!

[Nightshade24]

Yosharian, on 27 June 2015 - 01:07 AM, said:

Nothing wrong with the idea of turrets defending the base, its their range, target sharing and magic-1km-anti-ECM ability that is the problem.

Take those away and turrets are fine.

it isn't there range, it is there aimming and stuff.

Them firing LRM's at an ecm mech with no TAGs or UAVs on him while behind cover not in line of sight...

[Alistair Winter]

Yeah, I don't know that the new game mode will be better. An Overlord class dropship gradually powering up as the match goes on? I assume the idea is that the attackers will have to push the attack early, because stalling means the dropship is going to become more and more powerful. It seems like Russ wants every match to be an epic brawl lasting 3-5 minutes, ideally.

But you can forget about role warfare. There won't be any light mechs harassing the enemy and moving up and down their perimeter to keep them on the defensive. You will probably want to form a deathball, just like CW, and then just bumrush the enemy hard and fast. Any light mech that tries to be brave and flank on his own... well, say hello to 6xPPCs and 6xAC5s and 6xLLs.

This is basically Invasion mode, except the attackers only have one wave.

Nightshade24, on 27 June 2015 - 01:09 AM, said:

actually from memory it's a new game mode, not a replacer =P

It's a replacement. Russ doesn't want to split up the queue even further and he doesn't like Assault mode.

Personally, I would have liked to see Conquest fixed before Assault. Conquest seems like the least popular game mode by far.

SirLANsalot, on 27 June 2015 - 01:09 AM, said:

If they didn't see though ECM, they would be pointless. The target spotting system lets them tell you that HAY YOUR BASE IS BEING FLANKED YOU MIGHT WANT TO RTB!!!

Thus eliminating any needs for actual scouting. Just wait for your Eye of Sauron turrets to spot the enemy as soon as they get within 1km of your base. #rolewarfare

[STEF_]

Alistair Winter, on 27 June 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

Personally, I would have liked to see Conquest fixed before Assault. Conquest seems like the least popular game mode by far.

Me too.
Actually capping is stupid, you earn nothing.
So, conquest drops are skirmish ones, again.

[Pjwned]

Yosharian, on 27 June 2015 - 01:07 AM, said:

Nothing wrong with the idea of turrets defending the base, its their range, target sharing and magic-1km-anti-ECM ability that is the problem.

Take those away and turrets are fine.

Light mechs being damaged by turrets for doing part of their job is still a problem because it makes it that much easier for any enemies to defend, and they should be watching their base more carefully if it's an issue.

SirLANsalot, on 27 June 2015 - 01:09 AM, said:

If they didn't see though ECM, they would be pointless. The target spotting system lets them tell you that HAY YOUR BASE IS BEING FLANKED YOU MIGHT WANT TO RTB!!!

You should only get a warning when your base is actually being captured anyways, so removing that function (whether by removing turrets completely or something else) is good.

Alistair Winter, on 27 June 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

Personally, I would have liked to see Conquest fixed before Assault. Conquest seems like the least popular game mode by far.

I don't see much wrong with Conquest myself after base capping speed was increased significantly, any further issues are likely just with the maps.

[Yosharian]

Sorry, I don't believe that lights should get a free pass into enemy bases. ECM lights should have an easier job, perhaps.

[Pjwned]

Yosharian, on 27 June 2015 - 02:05 AM, said:

Sorry, I don't believe that lights should get a free pass into enemy bases. ECM lights should have an easier job, perhaps.

They only get a free pass if you leave your base wide open and don't even try to cover more than 1 approach.

Removing turrets is not a free pass into the base just because your tactics are garbage.

[Joseph Mallan]

So Base rush will be a thing again?!

I actually look forward to something besides hunt/kill game mode again.

[Timuroslav]

Yosharian, on 27 June 2015 - 02:05 AM, said:

Sorry, I don't believe that lights should get a free pass into enemy bases. ECM lights should have an easier job, perhaps.

So to you light mechs are just fodder?

Yea good luck with the 1% Light mech Queue times. It's fun waiting for a match

[Zookeeper Dan]

Something had to be done to fix assault. It was just skirmish only the last mech standing could run back to base for turret support.

They will still have to do some tweaking. If it's too easy for a couple of lights to capture neither team will venture far from their base in fear of being flanked by a light rush. Standing around waiting for the enemy team would make for awful games.

[Weeny Machine]

Stefka Kerensky, on 27 June 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

Me too.
Actually capping is stupid, you earn nothing.
So, conquest drops are skirmish ones, again.

Unfortunately. The nodes should tick faster. Especially on the very small maps like Bog where capping is pretty much a waste of time

[ScarecrowES]

The turrets are the only thing keeping assault playable.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I see plenty of base rushes, even with turrets.

Especially on crimson straits.

The reason base rushes fail has more to do with timing than it does turrets.

Base rushing as soon as a game starts, when a team is standing right next to their base probably won't be successful from a statistical perspective.

The smart play is to wait awhile and let them stray far from their base before you make your move.

[Twilight Fenrir]

I'm pretty glad to hear turrets will be going away... As a light mech pilot, I tend to run 'round behind the enemy team to chew up their fatties... and those magic turrets with the ability to shoot a locust with ECM at 1000 meters without direct line of sight is RIDICULOUS.

It's especially bad on Mining Collective, that little ramp up to the highest platform everyone usually fights on is in range of enemy turrets, so basically you have to stay on your half of the map to not get hit by turrets. Or, you have to try to kill the turrets while trying to not get killed by the enemy mechs right there.

[Pjwned]

Danth Reduviid, on 27 June 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

They will still have to do some tweaking. If it's too easy for a couple of lights to capture neither team will venture far from their base in fear of being flanked by a light rush. Standing around waiting for the enemy team would make for awful games.

That is not what happened in Assault originally when turrets didn't exist, what happened was that you tended to have a larger group that mostly stuck together (like it is now, kind of) and then a smaller group of faster mechs that would go scout around in case a group tries to take the base and then the team would have some warning in advance too. It was fun, but then turrets came along and every Assault match proceeded to be nobody giving the slightest crap about their base.

ScarecrowES, on 27 June 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

The turrets are the only thing keeping assault playable.

Go play Skirmish then.

I Zeratul I, on 27 June 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

I see plenty of base rushes, even with turrets.

Especially on crimson straits.

The reason base rushes fail has more to do with timing than it does turrets.

Base rushing as soon as a game starts, when a team is standing right next to their base probably won't be successful from a statistical perspective.

The smart play is to wait awhile and let them stray far from their base before you make your move.

Then it comes back to the issue of turrets damaging fragile light mechs, because chances are if you don't go for the base right away (which is fine by the way) then you will probably be taking at least some damage while fighting the enemy, and having turrets spot you & damage your rather weak armor makes it pretty discouraging to try a base cap after taking damage from other sources.

Twilight Fenrir, on 27 June 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

I'm pretty glad to hear turrets will be going away... As a light mech pilot, I tend to run 'round behind the enemy team to chew up their fatties... and those magic turrets with the ability to shoot a locust with ECM at 1000 meters without direct line of sight is RIDICULOUS.

It's especially bad on Mining Collective, that little ramp up to the highest platform everyone usually fights on is in range of enemy turrets, so basically you have to stay on your half of the map to not get hit by turrets. Or, you have to try to kill the turrets while trying to not get killed by the enemy mechs right there.

Yeah, those turrets on Mining Collective are egregiously bad, and if the turret spots you with an enemy LRM boat on their team (that would otherwise not have a target) then you can expect to get shredded to bits because when you're actually on that platform it has no cover from LRMs.

Edited by Pjwned, 27 June 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[DAYLEET]

Alistair Winter, on 27 June 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

Personally, I would have liked to see Conquest fixed before Assault. Conquest seems like the least popular game mode by far.

Nothing wrong with Conquest, it's just a hell lot harder to play than switch your brain off skirmish. Last event got a lot of groups to play Conquest and it was a disaster. Youd think they would have tried to just mothball it(not great but will win 33% of the time if your lights know what they are doing), but mostly they went for peripheral cap zone with assault and other weird stuff like that. The worst part was that groups brought no lights, i had many conquest match that event where a side had zero light, guess which side always lost.


Edit> Also happy turrets will be gone, assault used to be a great mode that could have you switch whatever you were doing at any time start to finish, much more chaotic than Conquest. Now it's another mode that's always the same.

Edited by DAYLEET, 27 June 2015 - 10:35 AM.