84 replies to this topic

[Greenjulius]

I ask this question as the owner of 8 hero mechs: which heros do you believe are worth the MC, and which ones should get a pass? I know there are already threads about them floating in the blackness, but I think a fresh discussion could be helpful.

Personally, I'd like to hear opinions on the Hellslinger. I'm considering picking it up this weekend, but I'm not impressed by the quirks. It seems to be inferior to at least 2-3 of the BLRs, but perhaps I'm just missing something.

My opinions:

1.) CTF-IM "Ilya Muromets" - My first hero and still my favorite "hero mech." It runs dual gauss very well, perhaps better than any other mech in the Heavy class. It has however been overshadowed by Invasion Clan mechs for usefulness and c-bill grinding. A 8.5/10 as far as heroes go.

2.) RVN-H "Huginn" - My 2nd purchase, and a slightly conflicted choice. I liked it when it first came out; MGs were still moderately useful, and it could pack a reasonable punch. Now MGs are useless, however the SRM4 quirks are outrageous and allow for SRM spam. Just run 2 of these with 700 rounds of SRMs and you are good. No MGs required. It seems to be a feast or famine mech however, as SRMs often seem to not register damage. I can sink most of those missiles into enemies and come out with less damage than expected. I'm shelving the Huginn for now. In the right hands, it's a 9, but for me it's a 7/10.

3.) AS7-BH "Boar's Head" - It's very expensive, like $30 when not on sale. I'm not a fan of this mech. The traditional strength of the Atlas is to soak damage in the arms like a boxer. This mech's weapons are mostly in those arms. That, and the arms are too low, resulting in a very average mech. I'd say pass this one up. I rate it a 3/10.

4.) CPLT-J - "Jester" - It's "okay." I finally got it to be useful once I mounted 4xERLL or 4xLL on it. It's still mediocre as far as quirks go, so the CPLT-K2 continues to eclipse it. If you love catapults or energy based mechs, give it a go. Otherwise it's safe to skip. 5/10.

5.) JR7-O "Oxide" - Not a great mech. While quirks have helped it, it's outright inferior to the Huginn because it doesn't have jumpjets. That, and the Huginn can throw just as many SRMs downfield with half the launchers thanks to insane-o quirks. If you like Jenners and SRMs, go for it. You're better off with the JR7-F or D in my book however. 5/10.

6.) LCT-PB "Pirate's Bane" - Actually a great mech for the MC. ECM makes it a sneaky little devil, and it seems happy running 4xML. The 2xBallistic hardpoints are worthless because MGs are worthless, and the muzzle flash blinds you since they are mounted below the cockpit. Really, really bad, so don't use those. 8/10. Maybe a 9 if quirks are tailored to mediums instead of crappy small lasers and MGs.

7.) BJ-A "The Arrow" - Another diamond in the rough. It suffers from MGs being worthless, but can sort of make them work with 6 of them. Alternatively you can sadly drop them and run 3xLPL, which usually is a smarter, more dangerous build. Large pulse are quirked nicely and can deliver great damage at reasonable heat. However, if MGs are fixed, this mech could be a real gem. For now, it's just above average. The BJ-1X is outright superior. 7/10

8.) GRF-1E - "Sparky" - I really want to like this mech. It seems destined to run 2xLPL+4xML, but I haven't had enough time to elite out the Griffins so for now it feels mediocre. I'll withhold judgement until it's mastered, as it has the makings of greatness.

Edited by Greenjulius, 25 June 2015 - 12:58 PM.

[Wintersdark]

These days, it's a lot different than it used to be.

Honestly, I think if you're looking for a cbill grinder, you're better off with a t1 clan mech via a'la carte purchase to get the (I) model.

Not because OMG CLAMS ARE OP, but rather because this gets you a cbill bonus mech that allows you to change omnipods around and build the mech however you want. These days, IS Hero Mechs are very much feast or famine - either they fit the current meta, or they're junk.

[stjobe]

COM-TDK - "The Death's Knell"

A 20 point alpha at 171 kph. 10 alphas to overheat, and you'd be hard-pressed to have to fire that much since you're constantly moving - and your target should be dead well before 200 damage.

At 1,875 MC, it's the second cheapest 30% CB bonus you can find, but you better know how to pilot a light 'mech properly.

I don't drop in mine all that often these days, but about a year and a half ago someone said he never saw TDKs in-game, so I took mine out and dropped a few times:



Edit: Fixed an attack by my old nemesis mathematics; apparently 40/4 is 10, not 5 :/

Edited by stjobe, 25 June 2015 - 01:11 PM.

[Greenjulius]

Wintersdark, on 25 June 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

These days, it's a lot different than it used to be.

Honestly, I think if you're looking for a cbill grinder, you're better off with a t1 clan mech via a'la carte purchase to get the (I) model.

Not because OMG CLAMS ARE OP, but rather because this gets you a cbill bonus mech that allows you to change omnipods around and build the mech however you want. These days, IS Hero Mechs are very much feast or famine - either they fit the current meta, or they're junk.

I 100% agree with you. My go-to c-bill grinder is the Hellbringer Prime (I). Current heroes are here just to give fans of a particular chassis something different to use, and in the process make extra space bucks. It's for this reason that I usually run (Invasion) clan mechs when I'm not grinding XP in an IS chassis, despite being an IS player. It makes me sad that the best builds are usually clan based.

Although clams ARE a bit OP.

Edited by Greenjulius, 25 June 2015 - 01:09 PM.

[Malleus011]

IMHO, my best heroes are actually Champions from various 'mech packs.

[Jabilac]

I find that Misery stands up just as much now as it did when I purchased it. High mounted energy hardpoints and a ballistic hardpoint big enough for AC20.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

and sometimes, you buy hero mech for fun... and because you like the chasis much.

[Duke Nedo]

For my IS heroes I'd say that the best ones are: Firebrand, Ember and the Loyalty mechs, all three. And Misery, but I sort of suck in him...

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Try to see how long it takes to blow parts off a mech in testing grounds in an Arrow using only 6 machine guns.

The DPS and stats on MG's could be lowballed by a noticeable margin.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 25 June 2015 - 01:33 PM.

[3xnihilo]

Pirates Bane and TDK are both well worth the mc. TDK is probably the best commando and the PB with the ECM is a must have for locust pilots. I also really like the Anansi, but I am a little strange.

[Deathlike]

In all's honesty... if you enjoy the mech chassis, more often than not you'll like the hero. However, there are exceptions to that rule.

I'll just go part by part based on your list...

Greenjulius, on 25 June 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

I ask this question as the owner of 8 hero mechs: which heros do you believe are worth the MC, and which ones should get a pass? I know there are already threads about them floating in the blackness, but I think a fresh discussion could be helpful.

Personally, I'd like to hear opinions on the Hellslinger. I'm considering picking it up this weekend, but I'm not impressed by the quirks. It seems to be inferior to at least 2-3 of the BLRs, but perhaps I'm just missing something.

Easily, the Misery is the first hero I bought, and the best of the bunch regardless of the changing meta. It has survived longer than any other hero to date and I regularly use it in CW.

Everything else is a whole different matter/mess.

The Hellslinger.... it's a mess, I'll say as much. The Battlemaster has some uses in CW, but only if you use its high mounted energy and not trying to explicitly use it as a LRM boat (because LRMs - the Stalker is a good alternative choice for doing that or various other smaller mechs that accomplish LRM boating more effectively).

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My opinions:

1.) CTF-IM "Ilya Muromets" - My first hero and still my favorite "hero mech." It runs dual gauss very well, perhaps better than any other mech in the Heavy class. It has however been overshadowed by Invasion Clan mechs for usefulness and c-bill grinding. A 8.5/10 as far as heroes go.

The Ilya hasn't held up IMO due primarily due to the existence of the Jagermech. The Jagermech's high mounts is the overriding reason over this variant (heck, I'd just recommend the Firebrand if you're into the Jagermechs with some energy...), so it is what it is.

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2.) RVN-H "Huginn" - My 2nd purchase, and a slightly conflicted choice. I liked it when it first came out; MGs were still moderately useful, and it could pack a reasonable punch. Now MGs are useless, however the SRM4 quirks are outrageous and allow for SRM spam. Just run 2 of these with 700 rounds of SRMs and you are good. No MGs required. It seems to be a feast or famine mech however, as SRMs often seem to not register damage. I can sink most of those missiles into enemies and come out with less damage than expected. I'm shelving the Huginn for now. In the right hands, it's a 9, but for me it's a 7/10.

SRM quirks are the only reason to justify buying it as it would be generally useless otherwise. It is simply heavily dependent on the quirks to avoid irrelevancy.

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3.) AS7-BH "Boar's Head" - It's very expensive, like $30 when not on sale. I'm not a fan of this mech. The traditional strength of the Atlas is to soak damage in the arms like a boxer. This mech's weapons are mostly in those arms. That, and the arms are too low, resulting in a very average mech. I'd say pass this one up. I rate it a 3/10.

You are better off with a Misery. Full stop.

Tell me what the Boar's Head will do better than the Misery, and then I'll chuckle for a moment.

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4.) CPLT-J - "Jester" - It's "okay." I finally got it to be useful once I mounted 4xERLL or 4xLL on it. It's still mediocre as far as quirks go, so the CPLT-K2 continues to eclipse it. If you love catapults or energy based mechs, give it a go. Otherwise it's safe to skip. 5/10.

It's a Catapult, and it's always been squishy. 2 JJ limit and Hoverjets™ cramp its style. A Quickdraw-5K or even a Sparky is a better option. Really, it's a thing.

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5.) JR7-O "Oxide" - Not a great mech. While quirks have helped it, it's outright inferior to the Huginn because it doesn't have jumpjets. That, and the Huginn can throw just as many SRMs downfield with half the launchers thanks to insane-o quirks. If you like Jenners and SRMs, go for it. You're better off with the JR7-F or D in my book however. 5/10.

I'm not into ammo-only based mechs, but while I like Jenners, I cannot stand the idea of being in an Oxide. It's just not going to happen.

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6.) LCT-PB "Pirate's Bane" - Actually a great mech for the MC. ECM makes it a sneaky little devil, and it seems happy running 4xML. The 2xBallistic hardpoints are worthless because MGs are worthless, and the muzzle flash blinds you since they are mounted below the cockpit. Really, really bad, so don't use those. 8/10. Maybe a 9 if quirks are tailored to mediums instead of crappy small lasers and MGs.

I've yet to troll with this, but ECM is the only thing that bails it out, next to the high mounted side torso energy. It's still a Lolcust though, so it is what it is.

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7.) BJ-A "The Arrow" - Another diamond in the rough. It suffers from MGs being worthless, but can sort of make them work with 6 of them. Alternatively you can sadly drop them and run 3xLPL, which usually is a smarter, more dangerous build. Large pulse are quirked nicely and can deliver great damage at reasonable heat. However, if MGs are fixed, this mech could be a real gem. For now, it's just above average. The BJ-1X is outright superior. 7/10

MGs still suck, so it is what it is. It generally registers as "meh" to me.

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8.) GRF-1E - "Sparky" - I really want to like this mech. It seems destined to run 2xLPL+4xML, but I haven't had enough time to elite out the Griffins so for now it feels mediocre. I'll withhold judgement until it's mastered, as it has the makings of greatness.

Griffins are agile, but I think at times the torso twist speed is not quite there (it has few torso twist quirks, and IIRC the 2nd worst torso twist quirk bonus - the 1st actually belongs to the Vindicator and... yea, that's sad).

The Sparky is the better alternative to the Jester, for all intents and purposes when comparing hero mechs that have effectively the same role (and factoring in tonnage for CW).


It is what is though.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Heavy Metal. This was the first hero I bought for 30% cbill grinding purposes. Equipped with 5 class 1 jump jets (10 tons of jump jets) and an XL-275 engine it was able to reach 40-50+ meters altitude pre jj nerf era with decent speed and maneuverability. The jump jets could be used to execute snap turns in the air if someone was behind you. The long hang time and additional line of sight gained in elevation meant there were times when you could jump, charge a gauss rifle and poptart with it. You could literally pop people with a gauss jump sniping in cases they wouldn't expect. This and similar incidents led to people complaining highlanders and victors were "never intended" by the almighty battletech canon deity figures to be mid air "acrobatic mechs". In an act of divine mech god intervention jump jets on the highlander and victors were nerfed into oblivion as a sacrifice to sate the vertically impaired demographic of MWO who can't shoot something if its not standing on a surface parallel to sea level. Heavy Metal is still a good mech despite the nerfs, if a shadow of its former self. It sports good hardpoints with the large majority of them being on the arms. Gauss x 3 large laser or dual wielding AC5 x 3 large laser builds are standard fare.

Boar's Head. This mech can be fun running with a 400XL at 70 kph. If you have nothing better to do you can run at full throttle and run past people who wonder HTF an atlas is moving that quickly. Unfortunately it suffers from energy weapon nerfs. It has 8 total weapons hardpoints with 6 of those 8 being energy. One might say 75% of its hardpoints were negatively affected by nerfs to PPC's and lasers. This by itself means nothing. But given its limited number of 8 hardpoints and it only mounting 8 weapons, its tougher to find builds that work consistently. Having to choose between an XL engine and an AC-20 at mid starboard can also negate the BH's advantage of mounting larger than 360 sized engines. Having 6 arm mounted energy hardpoints further complicates matters. Other atlases can torso twist and tank hits on the arms (which typically mount few weapons) to protect the more important weapons mounted on their side torsos. With the boar's head 75% of your weapons hardpoints are on your arms, which can leave you with nothing wholly unimportant to use as a shield when torso twisting. The boar's head can still be a fun if complicated mech to use effectively being that its hardpoints and layout don't allow much room for error or mistakes. Its weaknesses have a way of negating its strengths. Its great that it has 6 energy hardpoints, but all the hardpoints being on the arms make it tough to torso twist and spread damaage. Its great that it can mount a 400XL engine but you can't fit an 400XL and an AC-20 in your side torso crit slots at the same time and have to choose between one or the other. Trying to use a boar's head effectively is like trying to solve an irresistible force paradox or apply feng shui to a rubix cube. If you were looking for something where generic solutions would work or plug and play effectiveness was built in out-of-the-box you may be disappointed.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 25 June 2015 - 02:58 PM.

[Roadkill]

The Firebrand is a good Hero if you like Jagermechs. Mine was already outfitted with 2 x PPC and 2 x AC/5 even before the quirks, and the quirks just make it better. Those high mount arms are pretty awesome, but more difficult to use than you might think because the cockpit is so low in the torso. You really have to be careful about how high you go... if you can see an enemy, even just barely over the top of the hill, you can shoot it. Don't go any farther to give yourself some clearance because you don't need it, and doing so just means you'll take return fire.

The biggest downside is that you really need to run an XL, and the Firebrand is a 65-ton Awesome-like barn door. You will die to XL destruction every time you die. Every. Single. Time. Get used to it.

[Hairball359]

what about the grid iron? i think its a great hero mech. well worth the money.

I think its one of the best hunchbacks.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Arrow (Blackjack hero mech). The main drawbacks to the Arrow are it having only 3 energy hardpoints. And the engine size being limited to a 235 XL @ 93 kph with tweak. For comparison the blackjack 1X can mount a 295 XL and reach 116 kph while boating 8 energy hardpoints and is considered by some to be superior to the Arrow even if it lacks jump jets. Being able to mount 6 ballistic weapons in the arms is the Arrow's main draw point. Boating 6 machine guns in the small profile and agile chassis of a blackjack, with tiny hitboxes and jump jets, is probably the main sell here. The arrow is like a big brother to the spider with 4 machine guns just not as user friendly or forgiving due to the smaller engine size. In truth it can be a tough ask to utilize the Arrow effectively. To use machine guns effectively requires that your line of sight always be centered directly on someone. As you're focused on them with machine gun fire you can't torso twist or evade in the way you normally would and it limits your options. If you were able to mount a larger engine, the risks involved in this would be mitigated. Your evasiveness & turn rate would be vastly improved and your close quarters CQB effectiveness would increase in using machine guns up close and personal. Weapons like machine guns may be better suited to fast moving mechs like spiders that are better at focusing machine guns on someone for a prolonged period of time while being fast enough to maintain decent evasiveness. That isn't to say that the Arrow isn't a fun mech, or that having 6 machine guns to spray and pray with is something anyone will tire of quickly. The amount of cannon flare that lights up your cockpit anytime you open up with the MG's is impressive. If you can focus fire your machine guns on anything for a prolonged period of time you'll rack up hideous amounts of damage. The trick is staying alive long enough to reap the rewards and getting inside effective range to make it all worthwhile. Not everyone has the patience for that, unfortunately. Which could imply the Arrow is a love it or hate it thing that's not for everyone.

Loup De Guerre (Hero Treb). This mech has 20 missile tubes on each missile hardpoint and can boat either LRM's or SRM's effectively with jump jets and a large enough engine to reach 115 kph. Its main drawback is its 4 missile x 2 energy hardpoints making it heavily reliant on missile ammunition and its relatively low number of energy hardpoints. I haven't used it enough to have much of an opinion. It seems to brawl with SRM's and boat LRM's equally well as a jack of all trades. But doesn't excel at any one thing. Maybe I don't know how to use it properly. Or maybe mechs like the shadowhawk 2D2 with 4 missile, 2 energy and 1 ballistic hardpoint + larger max engine parallel or exceed what its capable of. The Loup sporting 4 missile hardpoints with 20 missile tubes each seem to imply its intended for a 4 x LRM20 (LRM80) configuration. But given its a medium mech with extremely limited tonnage, it isn't likely to mount better than dual LRM15's and could benefit by having additional energy hardpoints to compensate for this.

[Carrioncrows]

Depends if you are Pugging or not.

If Pugging

Pre - Clans - Yes hero mechs were well worth it, and fun.

Post - Clans - Nope.

If CW:

Nope

Looking for something new:

Aside from the shadowhawk chassis not much is going to give you a "new" and different experience. With the implementation of CW and the death of player CW leagues there is no longer a drop tonnage check for team. So a lot of the reason to take less chassis to be able to give someone else the ability to take the good ones is no longer a factor.

Everyone picks king of the hill, there really isn't any room for creativity, only taking the best in slot so to speak.


If you think you are really a mechwarrior trapped in 2015 and this mech is the only way to let your soul sing it's poetry of warfare and ever since the 1980's this mech has called you with it's siren song:

Then Yes, some hero mechs are downright enjoyable and fun but we all have our hero's. The wolverine hero is calling my name and I don't even know what it is yet. Because Represent.

[Bullseye69]

Here is what I have:

Heavy Metal my first now dont play it often since the jump jets got nerfed used them for enhanced movment to brawl.
Gey Death Shadow Hawk it a beast.
Pirate Bane it a annoying little mech with ECM love it. Die real quick in it but love it.
Ember Firestarter Love it recent purchase in the last 4 months.
Ansai I hate this one but going to try to love it.
Oxide Love it.
Sara Mech love it.
Sparky Love the griffin now own a champion and ecm 2N.
Grid Iron begining to love it.

Most of the hero were worth it but then again I usual run somw weird configs in my mechs.

[Ovion]

If you particularly enjoy a chasis, and will play it a lot, and enjoy playing it a lot, it's worth it.

Most all are at least equivalent to the 'free' ones, with that 30% C-Bill bonus - which is really useful.

Click on my sig to see which ones I have - those are the ones I enjoy / think are worth it, which is why I have them.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I personally have

The Flame: I run it as an AC20 brawler or a 4xLL head hunter. It works well enough, but the Hunchie does AC20 better and pretty much everything else does laser vomit better. Plus you aren't very durable.

The Oxide: Better than the Huginn because it isn't as dependant on face time. Yes it lacks JJ. Yes it has lower DPS. But, One alpha will completely obliterate the rear armor on most mechs. The second will do enough damage that they have to turn to fight you. A 3rd of 4th will kill most mechs.

The Huginn: Better maneuverability than the oxide. Only 2 SRM slots so artemis is go so you hit at longer range. Your MG are decent at taking off damaged bits. Super awesome paint job. Can AC20 Raven.

[Escef]

Greenjulius, on 25 June 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

8.) GRF-1E - "Sparky" - I really want to like this mech. It seems destined to run 2xLPL+4xML, but I haven't had enough time to elite out the Griffins so for now it feels mediocre. I'll withhold judgement until it's mastered, as it has the makings of greatness.

I run Sparky with 6xML and a 360XL. Not exciting but it works very well.

As for Heroes in general, if it's a chassis you enjoy, go for it. A Hero you don't enjoy playing is a mech you won't play often and therefor won't be worth it. Though I will also say that assault class heroes are kinda' expensive, wait for them to go on sale if you want one.