48 replies to this topic

[LordKnightFandragon]

PPC:10/10, 3.5s CD, 1175ms
ERPPC: 10/12, 4s CD, 1250ms
CERPPC: 12/15, 4.5s CD, 1220ms

THen quirk them a little for certain mechs,

[Ace Selin]

We really don't need CERPPCs to do any more damage than they already do, the splash damage is spot on. Maybe reducing their heat (both Clan and IS PPCs i could see happening).

Edited by Ace Selin, 27 June 2015 - 09:00 PM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Mardek, on 27 June 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

what if the IS get the splash damage like the clan one (10+ 2.5+2.5), and the CERPPC does 15 PPD?

thoughts?

Hell no.

With the possible exception of the adder prime arms. I think a case could be made to give it 12.5 direct and 1.25 splash to each side.

[Tesunie]

Scratx, on 27 June 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

Gauss doesn't outrange cERPPC by much, actually. 660m range with x3 range vs 810m vs x2 range. Gauss projectile speed does make it rather easy to hit, though.

Weapons no longer have a x3 range increment. Everything is only a x2 range now. (If that is what you are saying here that is.)

Besides that, I'm just going to walk away from this thread, and pretend I didn't see someone seriously try to make already very decent CERPPCs even stronger by giving them a pure PPFLD aspect and no splash damage (which I think may not be conical, but I do feel gives the weapon a decent flavor and distinction within this game, as well as makes for a good balancing point as well).

Now, a speed buff I can see...

[Mcgral18]

Tesunie, on 27 June 2015 - 09:20 PM, said:

Weapons no longer have a x3 range increment. Everything is only a x2 range now. (If that is what you are saying here that is.)

Gauss is still 3x

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

[Tesunie]

Mcgral18, on 27 June 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

Gauss is still 3x

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

That's strange... I thought they changed all weapons to x2 ranges. I'll have to check this out farther at a later time. Would make sense with the Gauss Rifle though out of all the weapons in the game, being a sniper like weapon after all.

[Yosharian]

PPC/ERPPC damage doesn't matter.

It's the HEAT that causes problems. And both IS and Clan ERPPCs are way too hot to be usable currently. (even with quirks)

[Hit the Deck]

I find that if you only put two at most and use them only for sniping then they are a decent weapon system, especially if quirked.

Now the question is, do people want them to be more than this? You certainly don't want them to replace the Clan's ballistics because they (the ballistics) don't need to be less useful.

[IraqiWalker]

Lord Perversor, on 27 June 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

I always tought some quirk on specific variants clan CT that reduce the spread damage may be worthwhile to try.

Adder Prime and Warhawk Prime CT with a 100% reduction in dmg spread so they can put 15 dmg shoots with PPc may be a different way to balance quirks.

I love this idea. Especially on the WHK which is supposed to be slinging ERPPCs like a gunslinger in saloon shootout.

Tesunie, on 27 June 2015 - 10:28 PM, said:

That's strange... I thought they changed all weapons to x2 ranges. I'll have to check this out farther at a later time. Would make sense with the Gauss Rifle though out of all the weapons in the game, being a sniper like weapon after all.

They made it only 2x for all ballistics EXCEPT Gauss.

[Soy]

Yosharian, on 28 June 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

PPC/ERPPC damage doesn't matter.

It's the HEAT that causes problems. And both IS and Clan ERPPCs are way too hot to be usable currently. (even with quirks)

Not really but it requires dedication and being finesse means each time you pick it up on a diff mech wit diff quirks and thus diff velocity is gonna throw everything out of wack. Is it a power wep currently, lol **** no. But it's more than usable. Yes it's the heat.

[FupDup]

Yosharian, on 28 June 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

PPC/ERPPC damage doesn't matter.

It's the HEAT that causes problems. And both IS and Clan ERPPCs are way too hot to be usable currently. (even with quirks)

Ace Selin, on 27 June 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

We really don't need CERPPCs to do any more damage than they already do, the splash damage is spot on. Maybe reducing their heat (both Clan and IS PPCs i could see happening).

I don't want to reduce the heat on either factions' PPC weaponry because the heat serves as a bottleneck to prevent them from being substitute brawling weapons. If you want to spam energy volleys constantly, vomit some lasers or something.

PPCs should be a long-range "sledgehammer" type of gun that can't easily be sustained in closer ranges as their weakness.

Edited by FupDup, 28 June 2015 - 04:53 AM.

[Yosharian]

FupDup, on 28 June 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

I don't want to reduce the heat on either factions' PPC weaponry because the heat serves as a bottleneck to prevent them from being substitute brawling weapons. If you want to spam energy volleys constantly, vomit some lasers or something.

PPCs should be a long-range "sledgehammer" type of gun that can't easily be sustained in closer ranges as their weakness.

Then it's a good thing you're not in charge of balancing this game.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Hit the Deck, on 27 June 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

Actually Adder with dual ERPPC performs pretty decently (once I said in my thread that this build is weak - I retract that statement). ERPPC projectile speed is actually good enough for hitting big robots up to 600-700m. Now, if it could do 30 PPFLD then I guess it would be a pocket sniper - too good for the Clanners.

It's the PPC which needs speed buff, not the ER.

agreed, the buff really did help the adder a lot, i leveled the stock prime up without the quirk and it was pain. now, with quirks and an extra dhs for the nearly useless flamer it is somewhat decent and actually fun to play.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 28 June 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

I don't want to reduce the heat on either factions' PPC weaponry because the heat serves as a bottleneck to prevent them from being substitute brawling weapons. If you want to spam energy volleys constantly, vomit some lasers or something.

PPCs should be a long-range "sledgehammer" type of gun that can't easily be sustained in closer ranges as their weakness.

Even at 8 heat, a standard PPC is too hot and too slow to cycle for that to become a real danger. And, it's still got that 90 m minimum range to deal with.

10 heat on an ERPPC doesn't let it become better than a C-LPL, since all of the heat is dumped at once into the sinks. A C-LPL effectively generates ~6 heat the instant after it has fired given a nominal Clan dissipation of 4 hps. ERPPC? A friggin' full 15.

[IraqiWalker]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 June 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

Even at 8 heat, a standard PPC is too hot and too slow to cycle for that to become a real danger. And, it's still got that 90 m minimum range to deal with.

10 heat on an ERPPC doesn't let it become better than a C-LPL, since all of the heat is dumped at once into the sinks. A C-LPL effectively generates ~6 heat the instant after it has fired given a nominal Clan dissipation of 4 hps. ERPPC? A friggin' full 15.

Using your calculation, that's ~11, isn't it?

[Y E O N N E]

IraqiWalker, on 28 June 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:

Using your calculation, that's ~11, isn't it?

No, because it's instantaneous. Lasers output their heat over the duration of the burn. Ergo, the heat remaining in the system when the firing cycle is complete is less than the rated heat output.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 June 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

Even at 8 heat, a standard PPC is too hot and too slow to cycle for that to become a real danger. And, it's still got that 90 m minimum range to deal with.

10 heat on an ERPPC doesn't let it become better than a C-LPL, since all of the heat is dumped at once into the sinks. A C-LPL effectively generates ~6 heat the instant after it has fired given a nominal Clan dissipation of 4 hps. ERPPC? A friggin' full 15.

The heat was supposed to justify the speed they used to have, along with being frontloaded/pinpoint.

Keeping them slow but making them cool seems like it would promote spamming them at midrange similar to the laser vomit builds.


Basically, I would like for their purpose/utility to be more distinctive from lasers, given that they're a whole different type of weapon with their own snazzy visual effects. We already have lasers for low-heat continuous spammage, I have never really understood why people object to PPCs being long-range hard-hitters.

[FupDup]

Yosharian, on 28 June 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

Then it's a good thing you're not in charge of balancing this game.

If I was in charge of balancing this game, changes would happen a lot more often and crappy weapons wouldn't be allowed to stay crappy for as long as they have currently.

For PPCs in particular, I would just ramp up their velocity back to where they used to be or at least close to it, and then bump their cooldown a bit slower (like by 1 second or so?) to help emphasize their long-range role (lower DPS in short range). Perhaps make regular PPC min-range use scaled damage (like Clan LRMs) rather than instantly going to 0 damage.

Edited by FupDup, 28 June 2015 - 07:19 AM.

[SgtMagor]

And the crowd goes wild!!!, a weapon (CERPPC), with unlimited firing capabilities, double the health points, and half the weight of a gauss rifle, causing 15 points of pin point damage. yup didn't see that coming...

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 28 June 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

The heat was supposed to justify the speed they used to have, along with being frontloaded/pinpoint.

Keeping them slow but making them cool seems like it would promote spamming them at midrange similar to the laser vomit builds.


Basically, I would like for their purpose/utility to be more distinctive from lasers, given that they're a whole different type of weapon with their own snazzy visual effects. We already have lasers for low-heat continuous spammage, I have never really understood why people object to PPCs being long-range hard-hitters.

I don't object to PPCs being long-range heavy-hitters, but two PPCs alone isn't enough to qualify as heavy-hitting, three can't be fired together, and laser volleys out-gun the PPCs even at long range and after dissipating some of it with spread. Throwing a Gauss into the mix exacerbates the effect. Anybody worth his salt can even hold a burn on a pop-tart in the air, firing at the apex of his jump.

I think a better way to regulate the PPC is cycle time. If you want a heavy-hitting PPC, bump the ghost to 3, raise velocity by 20%, drop the heat a little bit, and increase the cycle up to perhaps 5 or 6 seconds. Firing a pair of ERPPC twice with 15 DHS should not be placing the 'Mech at 82%, and that's exactly what it does when you have no quirks. Even with 20 DHS, you are at 45% from one firing. That is a bit insane for only 20 damage and having invested 24 tons in the ERPPCs and 10 extra DHS.

Edit: IS PPC/ERPPC would have to ghost at 3, C-ERPPC would have to ghost at 2 and have their 15 damage be all up front instead of splashed.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 28 June 2015 - 09:48 AM.