29 replies to this topic

[Soy]

Hit the Deck, on 27 June 2015 - 10:16 PM, said:

Actually my suggestion is not a nerf but a replacement for the "shaking crosshair" mechanism which basically prevents you from aiming while using the JJs. Aiming with "mouse drift" while airborne is like brawling using Gauss with charging mechanism: you can do it but first you have to be good.

I already use mouse drift tho in various forms with current JJ mechanics..?

Poptarting isn't about aiming btw, it's about strong mobility skills and positional awareness. If you're a dead aim ofc it's better; what playstyle isn't that way.........

[Hit the Deck]

Soy, on 27 June 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

I already use mouse drift tho in various forms with current JJ mechanics..?
....

Hmm..., I'm not sure if we are speaking about the same "mouse drift". Now imagine if your pointer/crosshair had some kind of inertia. If you move your mouse, it (the pointer) starts to pick up speed (accelerate) and then eases gradually (decelerate) as you stop moving your mouse. This basically makes your pointer/cursor/X-hair/etc. to be less responsive but its path is still predictable.

Now, for the purpose of implementing this in the game, we can just make the X-hair 100% responsive to mouse movement but can't do a dead stop.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 27 June 2015 - 11:24 PM.

[Soy]

Ahhh ok. What I'm saying is that a lot of my projectile shots are aimed as such... I aim ahead of the target, doing some slow hovering, and then when they turn the right part of body to me, if the cursor is going over them or if the shot is lined up to hit them, that's when I let it fly.

So a lot of it is just letting the mouse idle for about a half sec or a full sec while JJ hovering and then assuming it lined up with them turning right component, bang. This right here at 6 seconds in, is what I mean, just watch the aiming, I don't aim much at all tbh I let the actual mech movement line the shot up, including the JJs. That's what I mean by drifting.

A lot of it is overcompensating past the target, cuz they aren't exposing proper component yet but you anticipate that they will. But the thing about poptarting is that you might as well take the shot at the last second even if they don't show what you want, might as well put some damage out on an arm etc.

This is what I think of when I talk about drifting, at least as it relates to JJing and aiming.

Edited by Soy, 27 June 2015 - 11:31 PM.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Stefka Kerensky, on 27 June 2015 - 10:42 PM, said:

I think that poptarting is in the right spot now.
Soy himself wrote that poptarting is not dead, and he's right.
You can already do it, in a bunch of mech, nova, bj, griffin I like most.

IMO, the annoying thing were the assaults, 'cause big alpha and big armor.

Lurmageddon and poptarting turned out to be boring, and I don't want them come back.

Do you wanna poptart? Drop in those medium that still have JJ instead of HJ.

You don't make sense, because you still poptart. You just don't want assault to do it because they make it boring? How is it any different in a Victor from a Nova(Aside from the fact that a Nova will live longer)?

[Duke Nedo]

Duke Nedo, on 26 June 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

There are many Chassi that needs to be able to JJ and shoot so please no blanket nerfs to that. Just make poptarting less efficient if needed, like longer cooldown or perhaps a slow aim-drift that makes it harder but not impossible to hit something (it already is rather inefficient though with slow PPCs, leg damage and heat...).

I'd hate if Mist lynx, Panther, Firestarter, Spiders, Nova, Vindicators etc couldn't shoot in the air. I don't mind CTF-3D, Victors or Timbers shooting in the air either once in a while, as long as they are not pogosticking around on the battlefield... that just looks silly.

From another thread, I would suggest the same, give it a try... it should be possible to shoot things in the air, it just should be harder and not the most efficient way to snipe imo. Do not, repeat, do not kill jump brawling!

[STEF_]

beleneagle, on 28 June 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

You don't make sense, because you still poptart. You just don't want assault to do it because they make it boring? How is it any different in a Victor from a Nova(Aside from the fact that a Nova will live longer)?

I didn't like 24 mech bunnyhopping. It was stupid/boring, imo.

Now the poptart thing is beareble, because only a bunch of mechs can do it, and yes, "flying in the air" should be for light and medium, only. (I do it, sometime, btw)
Because heavies and assault should WEIGH, and WEIGHT should not make you fly like butteflies.

Only my questionable opinion about the poptarting drama, of course.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 28 June 2015 - 12:13 PM.

[Trev Firestorm]

Poptarting is not, and was never a problem, no change needed except /maybe/ a JJ buff. They are easy targets while in the air, get one shot while often exposing themselves more hill peeking does. Poptarting does add a different gameplay dynamic, and reducing playstyle variety is never good for a game.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Kiiyor, on 27 June 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

I guess people fear it because it was the #1 tactic. You either joined the poptarts or were beaten by them. All other tactics #2 or lower.

I don't think that's entirely true. It might be more accurate to say poptarting was extremely trendy and fun at the time. That's the reason it was embraced. Effectiveness wasn't the reason for it being widely adopted.

El Bandito, on 27 June 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

And here are some people who think what is good for the game, is limiting their freedom. You want the year of suck--2013 back with all the poptarting glory? Be my guest, and watch MWO burn in Steam release.

I've never had a problem with poptarts. I've put plenty of AC20 & gauss rounds into poptarts faces after their head clears the top of a ridge. I've had the same done to me when I was poptarting.

A poptart has maybe a 30-40 point alpha max. Maybe that was a lot in 2013. These days, there are people running around with 40-70+ point alphas. In the past, there used to be a lot of heavy and assault mechs with standard engines that were slow and didn't cover much ground. With the introduction of clan mechs we now have plenty of heavies and assaults that are extremely mobile and move at 70 - 80 kph. That additional mobility translates to lances being tougher to pin down in a specific area so poptarts can pick them apart. The tendency towards higher mobility makes it harder for poptarts to set up a firing line. And the higher mobility translates to better flanking which is a weakness of poptarts which require something to hide behind to be effective, given that they sacrifice tonnage and slots mounting jump jets and are less effective in normal combat.

Things have changed enough in terms of high alpha, speed and mobility that poptarts are no longer the dominant playstyle of choice. One might say poptarts in the modern world are just easy kills waiting to happen.

I for one would welcome our poptart overlords back, I could use the KDR/WL stats boost.

[Kiiyor]

I Zeratul I, on 28 June 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

I don't think that's entirely true. It might be more accurate to say poptarting was extremely trendy and fun at the time. That's the reason it was embraced. Effectiveness wasn't the reason for it being widely adopted.

Ha, you and I remember different things! They ruled the roost when I was pottering about in my mechs with the other filthy landlocked peasantry. Pretty much every comp team I saw ran poptarts and played as though they were trying their best to rack up enough flying hours for their pilot's license.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Kiiyor, on 28 June 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

Ha, you and I remember different things! They ruled the roost when I was pottering about in my mechs with the other filthy landlocked peasantry. Pretty much every comp team I saw ran poptarts and played as though they were trying their best to rack up enough flying hours for their pilot's license.

I think a team of 12 light mechs could overrun any comp team of jump snipers any day of the week.

Those PPC's and ER PPC's *aren't very effective* against lights.

If people in tournaments cared about effectiveness they would've dropped in 3 lances of light mechs and claimed the easy victory.

But effectiveness was a distant secondary concern.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 28 June 2015 - 06:25 PM.