229 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 29 June 2015 - 07:18 PM, said:

B-b-b-but quirks.

PGI has stopped doling out real quirks, it's basically a system that is either dead or on standby until they release whatever it is they say they are working on.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 29 June 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

PGI has stopped doling out real quirks, it's basically a system that is either dead or on standby until they release whatever it is they say they are working on.

[TheArisen]

Well, if you think the clans need more mechs, that can be your vote.

[Nightshade24]

CycKath, on 29 June 2015 - 07:12 PM, said:

Ah...

*put on stab-proof body armor*

It's the same deal with art of the Atlas having two lines of 10 LRMs on each side torso or the Stone Rhino's Small Laser of Doooom. Things are improving for TT, but its why art is the lowest form of canon for the pen and paper universe.

my mind comprehands the "2 LRM 10" aka LRM 20 for the atlas lightly... I can understand the 4 UAC 2's up on the upper left torso for the Direwolf B... but... never new or thought of that happening by moving the torso weapons to arms O_o

Thanks...

[aniviron]

Juodas Varnas, on 29 June 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

Falconer?

A fast, jump capable 75 tonner with (by default) 5 energy weapons and 1 ballistic (1 ER PPC in one arm, Gauss rifle in another, and 2 medium lasers in each torso).

The problem is that there's basically no other MWO-compatible variant for it (the only other variant is in during the Jihad) and even this one is 1 year out of the current timeline.

Can't really think of anything else, that would match your description.

Alex's sketch of the Falconer

Oh man, I really wanted a Flashman, but after seeing that, I've changed my mind. Alex's sketch for the Falconer just blew my mind. I want that so hard.

[Corbon Zackery]

Next pack should be the Star league pack:

or

Javelin
Assassin
Guillotine
Hatamoto-chi

[Y E O N N E]

TheArisen, on 29 June 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

So which IS mechs are comparable to the Twolf, SC, HBR and Ebon? Without quirks the Tbolt would just be ok. It's more than equipment, it's hard points and weapon location. We're still waiting for the AC & Scat (no pun intended), both of which will be strong mechs. Pgi just announced another 4 clan mechs (battlemechs no less) and you want another pack after those? You already have the best mechs, even after being nerfed.

First, I'm not a Clan player, not normally. Second, the Timberwolf is only good because it doesn't have to suffer through IS equipment. With an IS XL, it would be merely "okay" at best with those huge side torso boxes and the necessity of exposing its entire torso and some of its legs to fire a complete alpha. Finally, one thing I hope you understand is that there is no "this one thing is better than everything," there are trade-offs. An HBR built for long range will be awful at close range, etc.

With that said:

The Catapult would be pretty damn awesome with Clan equipment, especially the Jester with mid-range laser vomit. It would be as good as the EBJ, especially if PGI chooses to include the CPLT into the re-scaling project they mentioned in the last Town Hall. It would be a wash against the Timberwolf, which suffers from some terrible hard-point placement. A CPLT-K2 with a C-XL300, twin C-Gauss with 5 tons of ammo, and a quartet of C-ERML would be one major pain-train in a standing mid trade. Actually, since Clan Endo and Ferro only need 7 slots each, you could equip both and even get an extra heat-sink or more ammo in there. Twin C-UAC/10 wouldn't be half bad as a general fighter, either. Something of a general fighter.

TDR would out-gun the HBR at mid-range. It already out-guns the HBR, at least in the 5SS meta trim. Truth be told, C-MPL on the TDR-5SS as it is now would be a major down-grade. TDR-would out-class the HBR as long range laser 'Mechs since their high hard-points are higher than the HBR's.

The Stalker already beats down the TBR as a hull-down defender, what do you think it would do with access to C-LPL and 2-slot DHS? A Misery could put out a 62-point alpha with a C-XL300, 2x C-LPL, 3x C-ERML, and 1x C-Gauss. That's pretty damn ouch-like. 6x C-ERLL wouldn't even be a problem with 2-slot DHS and no locked equipment. 600 meters, 33 damage per side. You can fire 3x C-ERLL back-to-back before you have to cool off. 99 damage in 4.5 seconds at 814 meters is a terrible nightmare on Borreal or Alpine.

The BJ-1X and BJ-3 with Clan equipment would be utterly devastating. Almost as good as the Storm Crow, possibly better. Weakness is no arms to soak damage meant for sides, but you also don't have to necessarily expose your sides below the guns to shoot. Advantages are those high hard-points, jump-jets, and the incredible speed it receives for a given engine mass.

Hunchback 4P would be some amazing bull-sh*t with Clan lasers, as we're all about to find out when the HBK-IIC-A arrives in the game.

Firestarter with Clan lasers, I don't need to explain this one.

Basically, watch the IIC 'Mechs. They'll show you what it means to install ClanTech on a BattleMech.

[Triordinant]

I'd much prefer an IS Technological Breakthrough Pack that makes light fusion engines available 10 years earlier.

[TheArisen]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 June 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

First, I'm not a Clan player, not normally. Second, the Timberwolf is only good because it doesn't have to suffer through IS equipment. With an IS XL, it would be merely "okay" at best with those huge side torso boxes and the necessity of exposing its entire torso and some of its legs to fire a complete alpha. Finally, one thing I hope you understand is that there is no "this one thing is better than everything," there are trade-offs. An HBR built for long range will be awful at close range, etc.

With that said:

The Catapult would be pretty damn awesome with Clan equipment, especially the Jester with mid-range laser vomit. It would be as good as the EBJ, especially if PGI chooses to include the CPLT into the re-scaling project they mentioned in the last Town Hall. It would be a wash against the Timberwolf, which suffers from some terrible hard-point placement. A CPLT-K2 with a C-XL300, twin C-Gauss with 5 tons of ammo, and a quartet of C-ERML would be one major pain-train in a standing mid trade. Actually, since Clan Endo and Ferro only need 7 slots each, you could equip both and even get an extra heat-sink or more ammo in there. Twin C-UAC/10 wouldn't be half bad as a general fighter, either. Something of a general fighter.

TDR would out-gun the HBR at mid-range. It already out-guns the HBR, at least in the 5SS meta trim. Truth be told, C-MPL on the TDR-5SS as it is now would be a major down-grade. TDR-would out-class the HBR as long range laser 'Mechs since their high hard-points are higher than the HBR's.

The Stalker already beats down the TBR as a hull-down defender, what do you think it would do with access to C-LPL and 2-slot DHS? A Misery could put out a 62-point alpha with a C-XL300, 2x C-LPL, 3x C-ERML, and 1x C-Gauss. That's pretty damn ouch-like. 6x C-ERLL wouldn't even be a problem with 2-slot DHS and no locked equipment. 600 meters, 33 damage per side. You can fire 3x C-ERLL back-to-back before you have to cool off. 99 damage in 4.5 seconds at 814 meters is a terrible nightmare on Borreal or Alpine.

The BJ-1X and BJ-3 with Clan equipment would be utterly devastating. Almost as good as the Storm Crow, possibly better. Weakness is no arms to soak damage meant for sides, but you also don't have to necessarily expose your sides below the guns to shoot. Advantages are those high hard-points, jump-jets, and the incredible speed it receives for a given engine mass.

Hunchback 4P would be some amazing bull-sh*t with Clan lasers, as we're all about to find out when the HBK-IIC-A arrives in the game.

Firestarter with Clan lasers, I don't need to explain this one.

Basically, watch the IIC 'Mechs. They'll show you what it means to install ClanTech on a BattleMech.

Yeah well all that is good and all but the IS doesn't have clan tech. Since that is the case, we should think about things from the standpoint of where we are, not a "maybe in the future". I agree if the IS had clan tech things would be different.

In any case, nothing you said justifies clanners getting two packs in a row.

[FupDup]

TheArisen, on 29 June 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

Yeah well all that is good and all but the IS doesn't have clan tech. Since that is the case, we should think about things from the standpoint of where we are, not a "maybe in the future". I agree if the IS had clan tech things would be different.

In any case, nothing you said justifies clanners getting two packs in a row.

Resistance II comes before the Origins IIC pack and after Clan Wave 3...but of course the Origins pack mostly trumps R2.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Honestly? The next IS pack needs to contain a whole f***ing s***load of experimental tech to get the IS on par *cough* LFE *cough*cough*

Quirks only do so much.

[FupDup]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 29 June 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

Honestly? The next IS pack needs to contain a whole f***ing s***load of experimental tech to get the IS on par *cough* LFE *cough*cough*

Quirks only do so much.

If we're gonna Power Creep, we might as well do it right!

BRING ON THE LUFFIES!

[TheArisen]

FupDup, on 29 June 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

Resistance II comes before the Origins IIC pack and after Clan Wave 3...but of course the Origins pack mostly trumps R2.

I know, the other guy was advocating another clan pack after the IIC pack. I simply disagree with the idea that the clans need two packs in a row. This thread is for discussing which pack should come after the IIC mechs. Which of course could be argued to be another clan pack due to the number of clan mechs.

[TheArisen]

The only circumstance under which I'd be okay with clanners getting two packs in a row would be if the IS got several new techs, such as LFE and new weapons. If that happened, I think that'd be fair.

[darkchylde]

Hitman


Bushwacker


Bandersnatch


Cerberus

[Y E O N N E]

TheArisen, on 29 June 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

Yeah well all that is good and all but the IS doesn't have clan tech. Since that is the case, we should think about things from the standpoint of where we are, not a "maybe in the future". I agree if the IS had clan tech things would be different.

In any case, nothing you said justifies clanners getting two packs in a row.

First, nothing in there even hints at attempting to justify Clans getting two packs.

Second, you aren't getting it. A 'Mech like the Penetrator, for example, isn't going to close the gap. It's just another 75 ton IS 'Mech that can't run fast because it'll be capped at a 360-size engine and that will still be obliged to carry hot, heavy, short-ranged Inner Sphere lasers. That will always be the fate of any IS 'Mech until IS future-tech gets here, and even then there are some tweaks that need to be made to both that equipment and the current equipment (i.e. IS ML need to have a duration of 0.82 seconds OR the C-ERML need to have a duration of 1.25 seconds...same result either way).

Basically, if you can't do well in a match with a Jester, Thunderbolt, or a Grasshopper right now, you are not going to do well in a match with a Penetrator or a Bushwhacker or even a Flashman, which can run fast. Do I think IS need more 'Mechs? Of course I do, there are tons of derpy little machines I still want to play (but that PGI seems to ignore)! However, they will never, ever close that gap with current equipment, so wanting new 'Mechs specifically to do so is a fool's errand.

[Richard Hazen]

Anvil!

[Maxx Blue]

What do I WANT? This:

Light: Hitman
Med: Hatchetman
Heavy: Axman
Assault: Thug

However, all of those are unlikely to happen. Hitman is too far in the future, Hatchet and Ax have melee weapons, and the Thug's meager variants are all functionally identical while the Hatamoto is basically a Thug with actual different variants.

Now, what do I think we might actually get? Maybe something like this:

Light: Mongoose / Hermes
Med: Clint / Vulcan / Assassin
Heavy: Lancelot / Exterminator
Assault: Cyclops / Emperor

Basically, I think it is going to be a Star League / ComStar type pack.

There are also a couple of mechs I DON'T think we will get with the next pack:

Guillotine: We just got the grashopper, so another 70T Jumping energy boat seems unlikely, especialy with the Black Knight being a 75T energy boat.
Dervish: It's a good, classic mech, but the 55T weight class is well populated as it is and already has missile boats while there is only a single 40T medium and only two 45T mediums.
Pillager: I don't see us getting another 100T assault for at least two more packs. I think we are looking at another 90T/95T mech for the next pack.

[TheArisen]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 June 2015 - 03:04 AM, said:

First, nothing in there even hints at attempting to justify Clans getting two packs.

Second, you aren't getting it. A 'Mech like the Penetrator, for example, isn't going to close the gap. It's just another 75 ton IS 'Mech that can't run fast because it'll be capped at a 360-size engine and that will still be obliged to carry hot, heavy, short-ranged Inner Sphere lasers. That will always be the fate of any IS 'Mech until IS future-tech gets here, and even then there are some tweaks that need to be made to both that equipment and the current equipment (i.e. IS ML need to have a duration of 0.82 seconds OR the C-ERML need to have a duration of 1.25 seconds...same result either way).

Basically, if you can't do well in a match with a Jester, Thunderbolt, or a Grasshopper right now, you are not going to do well in a match with a Penetrator or a Bushwhacker or even a Flashman, which can run fast. Do I think IS need more 'Mechs? Of course I do, there are tons of derpy little machines I still want to play (but that PGI seems to ignore)! However, they will never, ever close that gap with current equipment, so wanting new 'Mechs specifically to do so is a fool's errand.

Fair enough, although the Falconer would be a match for clan mechs even with IS tech. (Gauss+erppc+JJ+4 Mlas+ xl375 stock)

[Johnny Z]

Sting

Wasp

Phoenix Hawk

Marauder

Warhammer

Archer

Crusader

Put on sale the day of Steam launch. Yes there is no assault but this would be amazing. I also hope they are sold seperately and a deal for 2 and so on because I only want 2 of them but they are all awsome.

Also I hope the Warhammer comes with an in cockpit picture of Natasha Kerensky to the side viewable with the cntrl key, even though I wont be getting that one. Its just a must since that is one of the defining scenes of Battle Tech and Mechwarrior.

Edited by Johnny Z, 30 June 2015 - 11:41 AM.