34 replies to this topic

[ThirtyOughtSix]

With the clan mechs we currently have, added with the new ones coming out next month, and the LLCs later, I pose this question. Will there be any - at all - reason to use the IS counterparts? Or will they all soon to be know as TrashMechs™? I think depending on how many LLCs they release IS mechs will be dust collectors by 2016. Thoughts...?

[FupDup]

The IIC's will probably be better than their IS counterparts for the most part, while still competing closely with the existing dominant Clan Omnimechs. In Clan vs Clan they'll be fine but in IS vs Clan is another story...

[Dulahan]

Dual UAC20 Hunchback. Just chew on that.

[FupDup]

Dulahan, on 30 June 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

Dual UAC20 Hunchback. Just chew on that.

That build is gonna have like no armor or ammo. There are much better builds available...

[Mcgral18]

Dulahan, on 30 June 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

Dual UAC20 Hunchback. Just chew on that.

On the other hand, you can't have as much cooling as a Hunch, with the hotter cUAC20s, with more spread damage and Ghost Heat.


On the other hand, 80 damage.



The 4G's AC20 can counter one of those, having under half recycle of the typical AC20 (1.88 seconds), but 2 is of course more than that, at the risk of 5 seconds without any fire.


The 4G is faster and more durable (+18 armour to the Hunch, but the IIC has 2 hunches which total more armour). Either weapon will will be crit out immediately.



Hunchbacks are the only ones that really compare because of quirks; with 2x and 3x RoFs some will outgun their IIC counterparts. Some break even, and the 4H and 4P don't really compare (like the Jenners and Highlanders).

FupDup, on 30 June 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

That build is gonna have like no armor or ammo. There are much better builds available...

Oh, it has armour and ammo...but it has no heatsinks or JJs.

It would also need the 200 engine, so only 8 TrueDubs, and only 3 tons per gun of Ultras. Enough for a 1 VS 1, most likely, but that's about it.

IIC probably won't get the 25% torso twist speed most Meds get, on top of Assault mech agility...so it won't be very fast or twist exceedingly well.

LB40x doesn't have the ghost heat, but that's just a fun gun, not a good gun.

Edited by Mcgral18, 30 June 2015 - 10:26 AM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Dulahan, on 30 June 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

Dual UAC20 Hunchback. Just chew on that.

Can IS atlas stand for a while against it ? what do you think... (

[Gyrok]

Hyper99, on 30 June 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

With the clan mechs we currently have, added with the new ones coming out next month, and the LLCs later, I pose this question. Will there be any - at all - reason to use the IS counterparts? Or will they all soon to be know as TrashMechs™? I think depending on how many LLCs they release IS mechs will be dust collectors by 2016. Thoughts...?

Yes:

HGN-733C has better hardpoint configurations with convergence on right side, plus IS ACs with single slug.

Hunchback currently has some super crazy uberquirks that make it a better option than many/most 55 ton mechs...including clan mechs.

Orion...well...let us just say that no one is really all that worried about either orion. The clan version looks a bit better...though...how much does that really say?

Jenner...ok...Jenner is probably outright better as a IIC.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Dulahan, on 30 June 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

Dual UAC20 Hunchback. Just chew on that.

Something to chew on...

"The Hunchback IIC is a Clan-tech refit of the venerable Hunchback. Its meager six tons of armor, coupled with paltry ammunition and lack of long-range weapons, led Inner Sphere observers to conclude that this 'Mech was a last-ditch effort for failed warriors to die with glory. In truth, the assignment of a Hunchback IIC was essentially a death sentence. Warriors given this machine were not expected to survive their next battle." - Sarna.net

Running dual UA/C20s might be good as a troll build or for a quick laugh, but if you think it is a serious build, you're gonna have a bad time.

[Hit the Deck]

Mcgral18, on 30 June 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

....
LB40x doesn't have the ghost heat, but that's just a fun gun, not a good gun.

It's the closest AC/20 Clanners can have. When it's mounted on a fast chassis, like a Stormcrow, which can shoot it at close range (less than 200m), then it's pretty decent.

[One Medic Army]

FupDup, on 30 June 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

That build is gonna have like no armor or ammo. There are much better builds available...

Not if you feel a need for 2 jumping UAC/20s at 70kph

Edited by One Medic Army, 30 June 2015 - 10:38 AM.

[ThirtyOughtSix]

One Medic Army, on 30 June 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

Not if you feel a need for 2 jumping UAC/20s at 70kph

192 armor isnt terrible if your careful too

[One Medic Army]

Hyper99, on 30 June 2015 - 10:40 AM, said:

192 armor isnt terrible if your careful too

You can at least dump some jets, reallocate arm and leg armor to torsos, front load.

[ThirtyOughtSix]

My concern is the past experience of f2p games, where you start out with some junk. Gradually the release more junk, and as time goes on the junk gets beefier and better. I'm hopin at some point the IS will get their light fusion engines. Solve this clan/LLC mess quick....

[Fate 6]

Hyper99, on 30 June 2015 - 10:40 AM, said:

192 armor isnt terrible if your careful too

You forget how fragile the Hunchback RT was before the quirks. IIC is gonna lose both torsos like a sad Warhawk on a bad day, especially since it'll be going the same speed. As someone who runs the Warhawk with 2UAC20s I can tell you that the same build in a 200XL (not even 10 truedubs) 50 tonner with likely worse hitboxes and very little extra heatsinks beyond 10 is going to be a bad time. The Warhawk barely handles the heat and ammo consumption and barely survives in close range. The HBK IIC stock build sucks.

[FupDup]

Hyper99, on 30 June 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

My concern is the past experience of f2p games, where you start out with some junk. Gradually the release more junk, and as time goes on the junk gets beefier and better. I'm hopin at some point the IS will get their light fusion engines. Solve this clan/LLC mess quick....

Unfortunately, PGI isn't too keen about timeline skips, they've decided to keep us stuck in one spot for a long time. It's only somewhat recently that they bumped it up from 3050 to 3052, and IS Luffie engines are in 3062...

[Ultimax]

Hyper99, on 30 June 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

With the clan mechs we currently have, added with the new ones coming out next month, and the LLCs later, I pose this question. Will there be any - at all - reason to use the IS counterparts? Or will they all soon to be know as TrashMechs™? I think depending on how many LLCs they release IS mechs will be dust collectors by 2016. Thoughts...?

IS mechs are bordering on craptech at this point.

The Resistance pack two isn't even worth the price, STD Engines? STD Structure? Single Heat Sinks?

All for the same price as IIC?


Makes no sense.

[Juodas Varnas]

Hyper99, on 30 June 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

My concern is the past experience of f2p games, where you start out with some junk. Gradually the release more junk, and as time goes on the junk gets beefier and better. I'm hopin at some point the IS will get their light fusion engines. Solve this clan/LLC mess quick....

I hate how people keep talking about Luffies like they're some Deus Ex Machina that will solve all balance problems and instantly make the IS as powerful as the Clans...

Luffies are only half as effective as XL engines (75% weight saving as opposed to 50%). Clans will still have their Invincible XLs, lighter, more effective weapons, smaller Dubbies, etc...

[Joseph Mallan]

Hyper99, on 30 June 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

With the clan mechs we currently have, added with the new ones coming out next month, and the LLCs later, I pose this question. Will there be any - at all - reason to use the IS counterparts? Or will they all soon to be know as TrashMechs™? I think depending on how many LLCs they release IS mechs will be dust collectors by 2016. Thoughts...?

My reason to be inner Sphere is to continue to try to stop the unstoppable. and they aren't LLCs they are IICs (double iic)

[Gas Guzzler]

Gyrok, on 30 June 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

Yes:

HGN-733C has better hardpoint configurations with convergence on right side, plus IS ACs with single slug.

Hunchback currently has some super crazy uberquirks that make it a better option than many/most 55 ton mechs...including clan mechs.

Orion...well...let us just say that no one is really all that worried about either orion. The clan version looks a bit better...though...how much does that really say?

Jenner...ok...Jenner is probably outright better as a IIC.

The edge for sure goes to the Clan Highlander. The 733C isn't even the best highlander btw, AC5s aren't meta anymore dude, and haven't been for a while. Its all about Gauss rifles and lasers now. The 732/732B is the way to go (Gauss + 3LPL). While the IS version will be a bit better on heat efficiency, it only does its max damage out to 400m, vs 660m for the clan version, and the Clan version will have a cXL 325 and 3 JJs while the IS version has to make do with a STD 300 and 1 JJ.

Yes the IS version has em all on one side, but we have good mechs with weapons spread out (See Ebon Jaguar, Timber Wolf, Dire Wolf, TDR-5SS, STK-4N).

[FupDup]

Juodas Varnas, on 30 June 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

I hate how people keep talking about Luffies like they're some Deus Ex Machina that will solve all balance problems and instantly make the IS as powerful as the Clans...

Luffies are only half as effective as XL engines (75% weight saving as opposed to 50%). Clans will still have their Invincible XLs, lighter, more effective weapons, smaller Dubbies, etc...

While Luffies still don't match the Mighty Clam Excel Engine, they do at least get a heckuva lot closer than the IS XL and IS STD do.

Some mechs with big side torso hitboxes would really love to have Luffies, like Stalkers, Atlai, Hunchies, Cataphracts, Jagers, maybe Victors, etc... Mostly the heavies and assaults benefit, along with a few specific mediums. Doesn't help lights at all because side-coring isn't their main concern.

Edited by FupDup, 30 June 2015 - 10:54 AM.