162 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

Thorqemada, on 04 July 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

I agree - the Vindicator is a damage sponge and probably to large.

Left, farther away, Vindicator.
Right, closer to the screen, Timber Wolf.

It's not a probably. Just a fact.

[C E Dwyer]

LordNothing, on 03 July 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

nova is the worst offender of the mediums. there are a lot of medium offenders though. both the shadow hawk (which i sometimes mistake for assault), and the centurion could be nudged down a tad.

the awesome is the worst of the assaults. i dont own one, but they just seem way to big.

after those two id say that there arent many offenders in the light or heavy class. the kitfox seems to be getting a lot of votes, but id say its only a tad large for a 30 tonner. the catapult is also getting a lot of votes, but i kind of think its supposed to be rather bulky (its small when you rack it). id prefer to omit those weight classes entirely from the poll.

i dont see any mechs that need to be bigger just a few that seem a tad large for their weight class.

Stalker needs to be bigger or all the others need to be scaled down, I think a 3d modeller must have really really liked the Stalker, and really really disliked the Awesome

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Lack of Vindicator votes makes me so sad.

[Eximar]

So many of the mediums need downsizing. The 5 mechs should come from light, heavy, and assault and mediums should be done right by themselves.

[oldradagast]

Centurions have not been super-zombies or amazingly tough since the Clans came out and the game shifted to high pin-point alphas. Well,that and they changed the Centurion hitboxes over a year ago, making them less zombie anyway.

Truthfully, I rarely see anyone even playing them anymore, so they can't be that relevant in today's game.

They are too large, along with many other mechs, sadly.

[Wildstreak]

Ultimatum X, on 03 July 2015 - 05:22 PM, said:

You can vote for more than one mech, I tried to spread the love around thinking that while one mech might clearly win now - the runners up might be next in line.


Hopefully.

No you can only choose one in each weight class at least when I voted just now.

Lights - none need it, Mechs in other weights take priority.
Mediums - Trebuchet, I understand the Nova the mini was much shorter, Shadow Hawk must be a joke vote.
Heavies - Grasshopper, Quickdraw and Catapult are good choices.
Assaults - Awesome leading by a mile, Victors are a good second choice.

Nothing else really screams, "Fix my size, I do not play basketball/American football!"

Sigilum Sanctum, on 04 July 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

Lack of Vindicator votes makes me so sad.

Because it doesn't need a fix.

Edited by Wildstreak, 04 July 2015 - 07:38 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

oldradagast, on 04 July 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

Centurions have not been super-zombies or amazingly tough since the Clans came out and the game shifted to high pin-point alphas. Well,that and they changed the Centurion hitboxes over a year ago, making them less zombie anyway.

Truthfully, I rarely see anyone even playing them anymore, so they can't be that relevant in today's game.

They are too large, along with many other mechs, sadly.

I feel that the Centurion's zombie capabilities are horribly overblown, heck even back in the Beta, before its hitbox nerf and when the hitreg was even worse, its hitboxes weren't as *good* as the current ones on the Stormcrow.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 04 July 2015 - 07:36 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

oldradagast, on 04 July 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

Centurions have not been super-zombies or amazingly tough since the Clans came out and the game shifted to high pin-point alphas. Well,that and they changed the Centurion hitboxes over a year ago, making them less zombie anyway.

Truthfully, I rarely see anyone even playing them anymore, so they can't be that relevant in today's game.

They are too large, along with many other mechs, sadly.

Truth be told, most people simply took advantage of their previous hitboxes and from what I can tell, never learned to twist. Players who went against the grain, and packed an AC on it, always had to work to protect that RA (especially WANG pilots), and thus were probably a lot less affected.

Would I complain about the old hitboxes being returned? Not at all. Do I need them? Nope. Still tanky as heck, up there with my SHDs for durability, though admittedly behind the SCR.

I still CN9s pretty much every single match, mostly AH models, followed by Wangs. Only one I don't see are CN9-As anymore. But since the CN9 is my second most run mech (and first love in MWO), with 1000s of matches, I can pretty bluntly say, despite the size, the problem is the Pilots, not the Mech.

It's not easy mode anymore, but with a little effort CN9s are still amongst the toughest in the game.

[NeoAres]

Ozealot, on 04 July 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

I don' think they will stop at the ones the community decides to pick this time. But they have to start somehwere. Take the Kit Fox for example: per lore it uses the same legs as the Adder. They don't use the same assets per coincidence, it's actually stated in TechReadouts that these are essentially the same pods. So if they rescale the KFox, they have to rescale the Adder too - at some point that is. So my guess is, this is just the first wave, similar to the retrofits. Would make sense to me.

You're damn right they have to rescale both. The 30 and 35-tonners in general are way out of whack. FS9 and PNT need to be scaled up and ADR and KFX need to be scaled down.

I'm with OP that the Centurion needs to be slimmed somewhat and the Nova doesn't. Vindicator, Quickdraw, and Awesome need some shrink-ray love desperately.

I've got a couple dark horse candidates for consideration though. The Banshee could use a bit more torso vulnerability, achieved by lowering the altitude of the arms (just lower the whole arm so there isn't a shoulder plate jutting out above the joint. That'll expose the head and belly to fire from the side). On the flip side of that coin, the Atlas could stand to be slimmer horizontally--it should be every bit the juggernaut the Banshee is but it's just too easy to core the STs and it's too hard to bring all its weapons to bear on the enemy with those overly wide arms.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wildstreak, on 04 July 2015 - 07:35 AM, said:

No you can only choose one in each weight class at least when I voted just now.

Lights - none need it, Mechs in other weights take priority.
Mediums - Trebuchet, I understand the Nova the mini was much shorter, Shadow Hawk must be a joke vote.
Heavies - Grasshopper, Quickdraw and Catapult are good choices.
Assaults - Awesome leading by a mile, Victors are a good second choice.

Nothing else really screams, "Fix my size, I do not play basketball/American football!"


Because it doesn't need a fix.

No, it really does, just not as desperately as the Nova or Trebbie. Definitely needs it more than Centurions, as they are neither as durable (though not bad for durability, I really am convinced most people don't twist, or don't twist well, anyhow) or pack as good a punch. JJs/Mobility do compensate some, but they are about 15% too large.

NeoAres, on 04 July 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

You're damn right they have to rescale both. The 30 and 35-tonners in general are way out of whack. FS9 and PNT need to be scaled up and ADR and KFX need to be scaled down.

I'm with OP that the Centurion needs to be slimmed somewhat and the Nova doesn't. Vindicator, Quickdraw, and Awesome need some shrink-ray love desperately.

I've got a couple dark horse candidates for consideration though. The Banshee could use a bit more torso vulnerability, achieved by lowering the altitude of the arms (just lower the whole arm so there isn't a shoulder plate jutting out above the joint. That'll expose the head and belly to fire from the side). On the flip side of that coin, the Atlas could stand to be slimmer horizontally--it should be every bit the juggernaut the Banshee is but it's just too easy to core the STs and it's too hard to bring all its weapons to bear on the enemy with those overly wide arms.

End of the day, priority should go to which Mechs need it for in game balance, lack of durability, etc. And sorry, the CN9 needs it way less than the Nova.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Wildstreak, on 04 July 2015 - 07:35 AM, said:

Because it doesn't need a fix.

The Vindicator has been recognized as being over sized by the community ever since it released. We've also had numerous threads concerning what would truly fix the chassis and make it a little more viable. That being a resize, or did you miss the pic Koniving posted above you?

Trebuchets are far more egregious, but please don't say the Vindi doesn't need a fix when it clearly does.

[Juodas Varnas]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 July 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

It's not easy mode anymore, but with a little effort CN9s are still amongst the toughest in the game.

I don't know man.
Shielding can only get me so far, because my shield arm can only take 1-2 alphas and i've lost my entire arm and the Side torso is now on orange-red armor. One more alpha and i'd be dead, due to XL engine, but i usually start to shielding with my Gun-arm, which i lose just as quickly and end up, basically neutered.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 04 July 2015 - 07:46 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Juodas Varnas, on 04 July 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

I don't know man.
Shielding can only get me so far, because my shield arm can only take 1-2 alphas and i've lost my entire arm and the Side torso is now on orange-red armor. One more alpha and i'd be dead, due to XL engine, but i usually start to shielding with my Gun-arm, which i lose just as quickly.

and on almost any other medium you have the same issue or worse. Go put a HBK in that same scenario. Every shot just hit your torso because it's arms can't shield.

Talking isn't just about catching shots on your shield arm (though against PP-FLD, yeah, that's best) but twisting so you get a couple damage to one torso, couple to another , more to the arm, and maybe even a couple to the back.

If I get focused, my mech looks like an epileptic breakdancer, but I can almost always survive to break off and get to cover/team, etc in it. Number of matches I derped in the beginning and ate double gauss to the CT is something I prefer not to talk about, but funny part is most of them turned out to be my best matches in the chassis, because I had the glowing, cherry red reminder the rest of the match that I HAD to play smart.

Yes, I direwhale or Krab can take that arm fast...they can do that to any other mech, too.

[Kh0rn]

For myself Quick Draw , Kitfox , Grasshopper, Awesome and Atlas reason for the Atlas is too make its torso's slimmer and its arms larger. Like a Banshee.

Edited by Kh0rn, 04 July 2015 - 09:14 AM.

[Axeface]

I actually think making the cent thinner will negatively effect it's potential. When a cent is in your face with an AC20, it's wideness is a good thing.
It'll look cooler and more like the art though sure.

Also, if they are doing all this modelling, could they fix the enforcers head along the way?

Edited by Axeface, 04 July 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

IraqiWalker, on 04 July 2015 - 05:09 AM, said:

If you stood the two side by side on the field, you'd realize the KGC is much shorter, and the arms are more spread out.

You would be wrong, the Crab barely shrinks in the height department, though it does get more spread out.

[Carrioncrows]

WM Quicksilver, on 03 July 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

FTFY!

There is nothing baseless about my opinion. Get some knowledge.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Carrioncrows, on 04 July 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

There is nothing baseless about my opinion. Get some knowledge.

Carrioncrows, on 03 July 2015 - 10:16 PM, said:

All the IS pilots voting for the worst IS scalled mechs and the all clans voting for their mechs.

This is a huge assumption by you that is purely based on your disdain for Clan, so while it may not be baseless, it is based on a huge assumption that is quite wrong. If anything, people are voting for the mechs that are statistically/visibly bigger at least for the first couple mechs.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 04 July 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

WM Quicksilver, on 04 July 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

This is a huge assumption by you that is purely based on your disdain for Clan, so while it may not be baseless, it is based on a huge assumption that is quite wrong. If anything, people are voting for the mechs that are statistically/visibly bigger at least for the first couple mechs.

It's not exactly baseless.
I mean, as a sort of a test, i took a 40 random players that voted for the Nova in the Medium mech scaling poll and only 1 out of the 40 players had an IS tag, everyone else was either Lone Wolf or Clan (majority was Clan)
When i looked at the Centurion's votes, most of them were Inner Sphere and Lone Wolves

The sample size wasn't large (because i'm lazy as f*ck), but the pattern is pretty obvious.

Besides, people are obviously voting for the mechs they WANT to get the rescaling, instead of those that might need it more.
I mean, even though the Shadowhawk is tall as hell, but it surely doesn't need it as much as the Trebuchet, but it is a more popular mech (you do see Shadowhawks more often than you see Trebuchets, in-game, don't you? Same thing with Novas. You see them almost every single game (at least one per both teams).

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 04 July 2015 - 10:41 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Juodas Varnas, on 04 July 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

It's not exactly baseless.
I mean, as a sort of a test, i took a 40 random players that voted for the Nova in the Medium mech scaling poll and only 1 out of the 40 players had an IS tag, everyone else was either Lone Wolf or Clan (majority was Clan)
When i looked at the Centurion's votes, most of them were Inner Sphere and Lone Wolves

The sample size wasn't large (because i'm lazy as f*ck), but the pattern is pretty obvious.

Besides, people are obviously voting for the mechs they WANT to get the rescaling, instead of those that might need it more.
I mean, even though the Shadowhawk is tall as hell, but it surely doesn't need it as much as the Trebuchet, but it is a more popular mech (you do see Shadowhawks more often than you see Trebuchets, in-game, don't you? Same thing with Novas. You see them almost every single game (at least one per both teams).

For the record I voted Nova.

IS Tags. No clan mechs owned on this, my primary (by a large margin) acct. I run HBKs and then Cents, in that order.

Nova is hands down the worst scaled, most fragile Medium. No conspiracy, just common sense. Regardless of whether IS or Clan, the worst scaled/most gameplay affected need it first. Period.

I also voted Kitfox on the Lights.

For Heavy, I voted Catapult, and Awesome for the Assaults.

Some of us are keeping our eyes on the real objective....balance.