117 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

The reverse is of course that any Omnimech can also remove it's jump-jets and they are not fixed equipment.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ace Selin, on 04 July 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

No allowing all Clan mechs to jump would break the game. This is a PC game not the TT game so it tries to have the essence of battletech but tries to balance all mechs equally (IS & Clan)..

For the record, on TT if you are playing a "official" match, no modifications are allowed. It's stock Mechs only. Just sayin.

[Lugh]

El Bandito, on 12 August 2015 - 08:27 PM, said:

PGI ignores some, follows some.

Mostly because it is not a TT game.

Sort of like modern day..... nm...

[Sjorpha]

Saying it's "not for clan, but all omnimechs" when PGI has said there is no plan to release IS omnis anytime soon is just pure hyperbole.

So what we have in reality is a suggestion to give one enormous buff to clan mechs in a metagame that already favour clan tech heavily as it is. And why?

"TT rules" sounds like a rather hollow excuse when you ask: Was this the same dude with that other thread suggesting an ECM dire wolf? Yep, thought so.

Great idea...not.

[Tesunie]

Point to consider:
If you want Omni-mechs to be able to take JJs on all of their mechs, consider this about standard mechs. All standard mechs could take any gear and change out every component, if desired. So, by TT rules for customization, a Standard mech should be able to take JJs, ECM, BAP, etc. Just like any Omni-mech could.

By lore, the only real difference between customizing an Omni and a Standard is time. An Omni can be customized in hours, before combat. A Standard mech could be customized, but would take months, if not years, to customize and tune.

So, if we wish to follow TT rules for omni customization, then we should do the same for every mech. JJs for all. ECM for all. Etc for all. (Not even have hard points then.)

PS: To me, this sounds like it would result in a poor game mechanic and make balancing the game to be fun nearly impossible. This isn't TT. Some restrictions will have to be applied, and some non-lore rules will have to be added in. It's great to look at lore for consideration, but to follow lore, simply because it is lore, blindly ignores the needs and differences between a turn based strategy dice game, and a first person live action shooter game.

[LordBraxton]

Ace Selin, on 04 July 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

No allowing all Clan mechs to jump would break the game. This is a PC game not the TT game so it tries to have the essence of battletech but tries to balance all mechs equally (IS & Clan)..

/thread

[Trev Firestorm]

Yes please, jumping Adder time.

[Almond Brown]

Nathan Foxbane, on 12 August 2015 - 08:27 PM, said:

The restriction is a way for them to balance 'Mechs and give them all some semblance of relevance. If jump jets were available to all Omni's like in TT then the Stormcrow becomes the only Clan medium out there. It also opens to flood gates to questions like "Why do Omni's have hardpoints or weapon limits at all?" and "Why can only some configurations of some Omni's mount ECM in a specific location?"
These things are done in the name of variety and fun. Oh, and the fact that not every TT rule (or art) translates into a first person game well.

Ya, I gotta say No as well. Link explains why. I will take 6 JJ's @.5t each please. Not seeing where that Firepower is reduced much at all. And I get Energy Quirks too.

Flying Nightmare

Edited by Almond Brown, 31 August 2015 - 11:05 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Andi Nagasia, on 12 August 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

stuff

I dont Agree as ive Currently Layed out how this would work the SCR would only be able to Mount 3JJ

stuff

Your own OP and rules would allow the SCR 6 JJ's

"StormCrow,..............(3LT)(3RT),.............-3Tons........."

So is it 3 or 6 JJ's on a SCR? Major difference in performance and as shown earlier, no loss of firepower whatsoever.

[Andi Nagasia]

Almond Brown, on 31 August 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

Ya, I gotta say No as well. Link explains why. I will take 6 JJ's @.5t each please. Not seeing where that Firepower is reduced much at all. And I get Energy Quirks too.

Flying Nightmare

Um you need 3 Free Tons in order to mount 6 JJ not 2, so your build is already broken(unless you lose a DHS),
so 18DHS and 6 MPL are now Broken? um NVA-S with +4DHS, which is the same, +the MPL have -10% heat,

Almond Brown, on 31 August 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

Your own OP and rules would allow the SCR 6 JJ's

"StormCrow,..............(3LT)(3RT),.............-3Tons........."

So is it 3 or 6 JJ's on a SCR? Major difference in performance and as shown earlier, no loss of firepower whatsoever.

That Quote was from before i rewrote the Topic to be an all or nothing Choice,
so yes it would be 6JJ but they would be forced into Those locations and locked,

[Lykaon]

Andi Nagasia, on 30 August 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

Sigh, Lets not look at this as IS vs Clan, but BattleMech Vs OmniMech, Please
-
a Storm Crow with 6JJ will lose 3slots in each ST, so it can only mount 1DHS there,
also a SCR with +6JJ would have 20FreeTons, a NVA without the 4 locked DHS would have 20FreeTons,
so its no more broken than the Nova Could be if PGI allowed those 4 DHS on the NVA to be removed,
-
Now a EBJ with +5JJ & Max Armor would have 24FreeTons, a 5JJ TBR has 23FreeTons & better Armor/HitBoxes,
so i dont think a EBJ with JJ & +1Ton would be Any more Broken than a TBR-S is as it currently Stands,

I'm not even thinking clan vs I.S. I'm taking about blatant power creep and it's potentially negative impact on the game. IIc mechs are completley customizable.Why would I take an Inner sphere Highlander when I can instead get one with a clan XL clan DHS clan weapons clan endo steel and clan ferro fibrious instead? Highlander IIc is the final nail in the Inner Sphere Highlander coffin. Same for the the other inner sphere counterparts for the IICs.Orion or Orion IIc? Jenner or Jenner IIc? Hunchback or Hunchback IIc? see where I'm going with this yet?

I want jump jets on Ebon jags because I already have jets on my Timber wolf.I wasn't going down the "it's broken" path more like if a Timberwolf can do why not a Ebon Jag.Since we are eventually going to see power creep exstinct Inner Sphere mechs anyhow may as well milk the clan tech.

Also,If jumpjets were to be allowed as mountable pods we would not be forced to take max jets so I could only put 4 jets on the stormcrow (plenty to manuver with) and still have a build like say...4 ER medium lasers 3 SRM6 with 4 tons ammo 15 DHS 4 jump jets and an active probe.even with mandatory max jets I would gladly drop a few heatsinks for jets 14 DHS 4 ER mediums 3 SRM 6 with 4 tons ammo Active probe 6 jumpjets sounds fine sign me up!

Also if you want to draw a compareson try drawing a compareson between the newest baddest thing against the mech it will replace. A jumping stormcrow or a griffin? I will take the Crow always.

I have a Griffin 2N

300XL 15 DHS 4 SRm 4 with 4 tons ammo 2 medium pulse lasers ECM 5 jump jets. This is fairly typical for a 2N build.

It does not compete well against my Stormcrow. the griffin has a slight terrain advantage because it has jets.Add jets to the Crow and its all in the crows favor.

Edited by Lykaon, 31 August 2015 - 03:48 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

@Lykaon
i can under stand your worries, i feel IS and Clan should me Balanced more,
Personally i feel IS vs Clan Ballistics are in a Good Place Balance wise FLD vs DOT,
i feel IS vs Clan Missiles need abit of work before they can be Properly Balanced,
Lasers seem to be the main Problem now with the Gauss/Laser Meta Running,

in this Case this would be an All or nothing Upgrade,
by Upgrading JJ on an OmniMech they would automatically be put on into locations and Locked,
so you cant removed Some of them, you have to take them all, and they will limit build space abit,

[Otto Cannon]

I think equipment like jumpjets and ECM should be available to any mech. If allowing all mechs to carry something would cause a problem, then you haven't balanced that item properly.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Normally I am the guy fretting over TT canon but with the last several patches I think MWO is a great product now.

[Andi Nagasia]

hoping with the up and coming Tech balance we will see how Omnis vs BattleMechs Fair,

Trev Firestorm, on 31 August 2015 - 09:12 AM, said:

Yes please, jumping Adder time.

yes would love a Adder Jet,

Also please Remember,
this will mostly only Help Lesser Clan Mechs,
it wont help the Better Clan Mechs as much if Any,

[Signal27]

Andi Nagasia, on 04 July 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

In BattleTech Lore as well as the TT Rules,

Stopped reading there.

[Golden Vulf]

Ace Selin, on 04 July 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

No allowing all Clan mechs to jump would break the game. This is a PC game not the TT game so it tries to have the essence of battletech but tries to balance all mechs equally (IS & Clan)..

Which omnimechs getting jump jets would break the game? The Timberwolf and Direwolf can already jump with pods.

The Adder, a 35 ton mech can't take jump jets, but is about to be competing with the Jenner IIC which is the same weght and can.
The Ice Ferret can not, but the Shadowcat is the same weight, can take more weapons, and has 6 jump jets.

That leaves the Stormcrow, Mad Dog, Ebon Jaguar, Hellbringer, Gargoyle, and Warhawk.

Would a Mad Dog, or Ebon Jaguar with jump jets be more of a threat than a jumping Timberwolf?
A Jumping Hellbringer would be useful because it can carry ECM, but it has no structure or armor upgrades so is 4-5 tons too heavy.

A Jumping Gargoyle would be worse than a Summoner. The thing only has 20 tons of pod space as it is.
A Warhawk with jump jets, the locked structure and heatsinks makes it impossible to fit jump jets anywahere but the right torso.

So that leaves the Stormcrow. It could take up to 6 jump jets at .5 tons each. It would be pretty sweet.

[LordBraxton]

Which IS mechs getting jump jets would break the game? What IS mechs getting a few extra hardpoints would break the game? The answer is very few. So we should just give JJs and 2 extra hardpoints to every IS mech besides the thunderbolt and stalker! <<<<<< That's what this discussion reads like

Edited by LordBraxton, 08 October 2015 - 10:47 AM.

[GrimRiver]

I feel giving all clan mechs JJ would undermind other variants of that mech who's whole selling point is "JJ" and if all clan mechs have JJ then whats the point of buying that mech that was under quirked or has less hardpoints because it was the only variant with JJ.

[keith]

Ace Selin, on 04 July 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

No allowing all Clan mechs to jump would break the game. This is a PC game not the TT game so it tries to have the essence of battletech but tries to balance all mechs equally (IS & Clan)..

then its only fair that the IS xl stays death by side loss? what breaks the game is having clan mechs that are horrible because of TT rule that force them into being crap, while the only thing making IS mechs bad is what a stock config is(how many hardpoint/loaction).