149 replies to this topic

[Eider]

Kristov Kerensky, on 06 July 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

This..this is pure bs. CW is fine for solo players, just know that you are stepping into the big boy arena and most of us doing CW expect you to play like a member of a TEAM, not try and Rambo your way into victory, cause that ain't gonna happen, you'll end up exactly as Rambo did in the book, alone, dead and looking stupid.

I do a lot of CW solo, I have fun a lot of the time doing that, and I see teamwork on a good percentage of the drops. I've been stomped and done the stomping when facing 12 man top teams, it DOES work both ways, but if you don't play as part of a team, it's nothing but getting stomped into the dirt.

Again, don't drop in CW thinking you are Rambo, or you'll end up like he did in the original novel...

Its fine? Denial is not just a river in egypt. So lots players during this event? Or after? No bud, its not fine. I know some of you dont want to face that truth. You can make new maps, add fancy rewards. When its bad. its just bad. Its a dying game mode before it has even started.

[Cptn Goodvibes Pig of Steel]

G'day,


Don't worry about CW boris. As it stands, CW is a dead end for many, many reasons and no amount of posting on the forums will change this. An ill thought out and overly bad design. The bloke in charge only reads Twitter and does not communicate on the MWO forum. Your post and many others count for absolute zilch. The time to worry is when people give up and stop posting altogether. Looking from my perspective, as the nominal OIC of a small informal merc outfit that has gone from a regular half a dozen participants to barely seeing a single player in MWO each weekend since the release of CW six months ago. CW was seen as a "pointer to the future of MWO" and basically it sucks big time for small units and Pugs. Going back to the same old solo and group queue maps get rather boring and its then time to move onto something else.

Now some may say, "join a large group" and that's all good and fine with some. However, it depends on the individual situation. I'm from a flight sim background and don't find MWO overly complex or challenging. My use started as a quick entry diversion, i.e. just drop in and play a game or three. This compared to a flight sim which can be much more time consuming, that often includes planning, Team Speak, more complex controls and always using a Trak IR device without any form of icons. Nor do I think that the developers will address the issues raised by Pugs. I've seen glaciers move at faster rates and the lack of communication regarding CW speaks volumes. There is nothing you can really do to change this, but the ball is in your court. It's kind of up to you from here. Either join a large group or drift away from CW and eventually MWO like the majority seem to be doing.

As for me, well I live in OZ, the land of high pings and irregular hours of play. I saw the way, the wind was blowing months ago and set a cutoff objective to my footprint within MWO. I've settled on an objective of having 60 fully mastered mechs, divided of 20 different chassis. Three of each, then that's it. Presently I have 60 mech bays, with 59 mechs and 49 of these are fully mastered. There is now no need to Pug into CW and go after the lower rank 2 mech bays anymore. Just one Thunderbolt to go. Do I give them a donation for the Top Dog hero or pickup a 5SS with CBills? After this, MWO goes on the backburner for awhile. Do something else and periodically check back every few months to update or see if anything has changed in a worthwhile way to merit further investment.

So don't sweat it boris, its only a game and they'll always be better ones coming along. That's the way the market works.



Regards,

Draughluin

[-Vompo-]

If we separate 12mans to a separate queue we'll have withing the week players complaining about longer queue times and 10 mans stomping smaller groups. If you move 10 mans away you also need to move 2 mans into the other queue so 10 mans can play. After that it's 8 mans and 4 mans... There would be no end to it until we have solo and group queue and we all know that then we have 2 mans complaining how they are being stomped.

Both teams can communicate among themselves. The premade usually plays better together and as a team based game that is playing better than the other team. Nothing prevents the pug team from beating the premade if they use the tools given to them. Better teamplayers usually win in cw no matter if they are in a unit or not.

Personally I don't really want to separate cw into solo and group queue. Instead of bringing more people in there is a chance that it drives people away cause the waiting times will increase at least at first.

[Ace Selin]

zagibu, on 06 July 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

I played some CW when it was new and again during the events, but I didn't find it very enjoyable.

If you play CW with friends, team mates, unit mates and other people on TS or VOIP comms CW is much more fun and you're more likely to win or get a good game out of it. Otherwise you have to rely on other solos who may want to also do their thing, not the team thing and hope all things go your way, i did it a lot and still do PUG, because CW is something different. but you have to be aware your team-mates can also be anything from elite to incompetent to levelling up to playing in trial mechs.


And i should say i was one of those PUGS who would never join a unit, posted many times in my history if you care to check im a solo PUG, yet with FRR i found people who were ok with whatever time you put into the game, accepted good and the not so good, wanted people on TS but ok if you didnt and i joined a unit there and have had much more fun than i did getting to level 10 in Davion as a solo (despite recently having lots of PC problems dropping me from game, laaag and such, sorry to those who dropped with me, im trying to fix whatever it is thats costing you a player)

Edited by Ace Selin, 06 July 2015 - 11:33 PM.

[TheCharlatan]

I'm a PUG.
I don't play CW right now because i find it extremely un-enjoyable.
I have limited time to play. I won't risk 1 hour of my free time for a high chance of getting bored and frustrated to death due to imbalance between the teams, ghost drops, boring tactics (medium range trade fest in a bottle neck, yay).
I prefer the solo queue: bad games there waste only 5-10 minutes of my time, and wait times are almost always <1 minute.

[InspectorG]

Eider, on 06 July 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

Its fine? Denial is not just a river in egypt. So lots players during this event? Or after? No bud, its not fine. I know some of you dont want to face that truth. You can make new maps, add fancy rewards. When its bad. its just bad. Its a dying game mode before it has even started.

Only thing keeping me from CW is my potato.

CW should be better once planetary rewards(or whatever they call them) are instituted. And that Recon mode Russ was mumbling about.

Just because its harder for solos who dont coordinate and move/fire in a coordinated fashion doesnt mean thats the problem.

"CW sucks for solos" is a red herring.
That like saying boxing sucks because you get punched in the face...

CW currently sucks because there is little reason to cap a planet other than bragging rights...which no one cares about.

TheCharlatan, on 07 July 2015 - 04:02 AM, said:

I'm a PUG.
I don't play CW right now because i find it extremely un-enjoyable.
I have limited time to play. I won't risk 1 hour of my free time for a high chance of getting bored and frustrated to death due to imbalance between the teams, ghost drops, boring tactics (medium range trade fest in a bottle neck, yay).
I prefer the solo queue: bad games there waste only 5-10 minutes of my time, and wait times are almost always <1 minute.

Respectable argument.

Most "CW sucks" arguments are from bads who think its solo drop with +3 extra lives.

[Water Bear]

I don't feel like reading the prior bible of this topic, so I'll just toss this in here in case it wasn't brought up:

Why not make CW PUGs use the matchmaker? Since the planets that can be attacked are decided by algorithm anyway and I don't give a rat's arse what planet I'm on (and why would anyone), why not just use the MM and my Elo to put me with 11 others at nearly my skill? I'm willing to lose the teeny tiny ounce of freedom of choice I have in what planet to attack in exchange for a group of competent players.

Sooooo tired of grouping up with 11 players worse than the average.

This would keep coordinated groups happy since they can still choose what planets to attack (as if it matters), leaving groups the "leaders" in CW.

[Lyoto Machida]

Draughluin, on 06 July 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

G'day,


Don't worry about CW boris. As it stands, CW is a dead end for many, many reasons and no amount of posting on the forums will change this. An ill thought out and overly bad design. The bloke in charge only reads Twitter and does not communicate on the MWO forum. Your post and many others count for absolute zilch. The time to worry is when people give up and stop posting altogether. Looking from my perspective, as the nominal OIC of a small informal merc outfit that has gone from a regular half a dozen participants to barely seeing a single player in MWO each weekend since the release of CW six months ago. CW was seen as a "pointer to the future of MWO" and basically it sucks big time for small units and Pugs. Going back to the same old solo and group queue maps get rather boring and its then time to move onto something else.

Now some may say, "join a large group" and that's all good and fine with some. However, it depends on the individual situation. I'm from a flight sim background and don't find MWO overly complex or challenging. My use started as a quick entry diversion, i.e. just drop in and play a game or three. This compared to a flight sim which can be much more time consuming, that often includes planning, Team Speak, more complex controls and always using a Trak IR device without any form of icons. Nor do I think that the developers will address the issues raised by Pugs. I've seen glaciers move at faster rates and the lack of communication regarding CW speaks volumes. There is nothing you can really do to change this, but the ball is in your court. It's kind of up to you from here. Either join a large group or drift away from CW and eventually MWO like the majority seem to be doing.

As for me, well I live in OZ, the land of high pings and irregular hours of play. I saw the way, the wind was blowing months ago and set a cutoff objective to my footprint within MWO. I've settled on an objective of having 60 fully mastered mechs, divided of 20 different chassis. Three of each, then that's it. Presently I have 60 mech bays, with 59 mechs and 49 of these are fully mastered. There is now no need to Pug into CW and go after the lower rank 2 mech bays anymore. Just one Thunderbolt to go. Do I give them a donation for the Top Dog hero or pickup a 5SS with CBills? After this, MWO goes on the backburner for awhile. Do something else and periodically check back every few months to update or see if anything has changed in a worthwhile way to merit further investment.

So don't sweat it boris, its only a game and they'll always be better ones coming along. That's the way the market works.



Regards,

Draughluin

Can't say I disagree with this...only exception to that is the fact that other BT/MW games won't be along. PGI has a captive audience here...at least for players that care about the BT universe.

[Screech]

It does seem in hindsight that the resources spent on CW could have been better used elsewhere. But PGI was in a corner on this one and had to try something. Perhaps with the Steam launch it might have give it some lift but I won't hold my breath.

[borisof007]

Kristov Kerensky, on 06 July 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

Ok boris, so you aren't the anti-social solo player, you just got confused on how CW works with setting up games, and you've evidently missed a lot of things since CB..

We had a mixed solo/2-4 group que and a 12 man group que, it failed, horribly, due to the solo only players screaming, ranting and raving about the 2-4 groups ruining their game. That happened, PGI removed all groups from Solo and put all groups in the Group Que, 2-10 and 12 man groups for that.

Match Maker uses Elo, which is a personal ranking, to match up players in the Solo que. MM also uses Elo match up players in the Group que, but it uses the AVERAGE of each group to make up 12 man groups, since 12 man units are actually only 1% of the entire Group que. It's not a great system, but work is being done on it.

CW has no MM at all, it simply takes the first 12 per side on a planet and drops them together, building those 12 from 12 solo players or mixed groups and solos or a single 12 man when they exist, which isn't very often except during the Events.

CW que times are long no matter WHAT you do, solo or 12 man, it's a long wait, because so little of the playerbase does CW, pure and simple, and that's the entirety of the problem. I've had extremely long wait times, over an hour, and I've been dirtside within 30 seconds of hitting the Defend/Attack button for a planet. I've learned, thanks to the information PGI has given us, to read the ques for each planet in my list and figure out which one is probably going to be the shortest que time. Usually I pick ones with short ques, under 10 minutes, sometimes I get long ques because I picked the wrong planet.

Since CW matches are 30 minutes long, if you have less than an hour, don't bother to que for it, you simply don't have enough time. Nothing wrong with that, CW isn't the quick drop arena, we have the non-CW ques for that, solo and group, they pay better if you are looking for cbills anyway, quicker ques, faster drops, you earn more in the same time frame because you get more games in.

CW is like doing a raid in WoW when you aren't in a group, you have to wait for the people to get together, sometimes it's quick but it's usually a long wait, that's the best way I can think of putting it to you. And like raids in WoW, CW is rather the end game mode for MWO. Unlike WoW however, casual and solo players can do CW without any issues, which is totally the opposite of doing a raid in WoW, as you know.

If we hit Steam and the playerbase gets much larger, CW que times will probably drop. And Russ has stated that 4v4 Recons and 8v8 Strikes are coming to CW, PROBABLY sometime this year, but no firm dates or promises on this year.

CW right now is pretty much..well..it's not the game mode to make cbills or xp, there's no actual rewards beyond the loyalty point ranks for the Factions, and that's it. It's not what we were promised in 2011, not even remotely close to that at this time. There's SOME glimmer of hope, as the CW things coming this year look to start being more aimed at what we were promised for CW in 2011, but I'm at the point where I'll believe it when it's done and working properly.

*edit*

1453 R, I put in my post on the first or second page, that SRM, the unit I'm the XO of, has some rather simple rules, play as a member of a team, have fun, and be able to deal with our personalities(we're all adults, we're not polite and we give each other a LOT of crap), that's it. We have no scheduled times you have to play, we don't even demand that you DO play, want to join, cool, as long as you fit those 3 rules, we're good with you being in the unit. We're all adults, we all work, most of us have kids/families/lives, and we do MWO for fun, that's it. If you are on once in a while, that's fine, if you are on every single day for 12 hours, that's fine..ok, probably not fine but we don't judge..much...ok, we do and we're vocal about it, but so what, we don't kick you out for it.

Many units are exactly like SRM is, no schedules, just people who enjoy playing as a team when our friends are on when we are, and that's about it. I've actually sent people who wanted to join SRM to other units because they were far too active and want to play in the leagues and such, SRM doesn't do that, we're laid back and just here for shits and giggles, like many other units. You want to be in a unit that doesn't care if you can make it on any given day or week, friend me ingame and I'll add you to the roster.

ONE thing, SRM ONLY accepts Inner Sphere contracts! We do NOT work for the Clans, we kill the Clanners. And we tend to work for Kurita, gives us lots of chances to kill Clanners

Probably the best explanation I've received to date. I can't say thanks enough for that.

I'm stunned that people threw a shitfit over the 2-4 group idea. Like, legitimately surprised. If anything, I'd want to chalk that up to players just being noobs and running off by themselves and not thinking as a team without necessarily having to speak to each other. You know, battle sense and all that. But I'm at a loss for better words. Defeated, maybe? That's probably the best way I'd describe that.

To be fair, I gave community warfare a go last night. I figured I sat here and spat all that out that I better put up or shut up, so to speak. I gave attention to which two planets were getting queues for attack and defense on Steiner side and I queued up. Total wait time wasn't bad, about 6 minutes.

It was a mixture of teams on our side and a pure Jade Falcon invasion. Mostly one force, with a few stragglers. It was an awesome fight, I had fun, we got our butts kicked but it was totally OK. I was more focused on the aspect of play and watching their movements, their strategies, trying to observe. It was a different experience than what I've had in the past.

Your comparison to WoW's end game PvE content actually occurred to me last night as well. I was standing in my kitchen and it just kind of hit me all at once - CW IS end game. It's meant to require a raid, but can still be attempted with PUGs, no different than other MMO's. I'm not quite sure WHY that didn't click before. I feel.....kinda silly.

It seems I may have to invest some time into a few different units. I tend to play Steiner, but I only signed a 4 week. It's also nice to see that you understand what was sold to us back then vs what we have now and just how different that image was. Like, a lot different. I had no clue on 4v4 or 8v8, which genuinely excites me a LOT. I always felt this game shone more with less units, not more. It's much more strategic regarding what mechs you take, how you attack or defend, and how to group/split up etc.

That CW doesn't have MM makes sense given queue numbers. You can't exactly Elo matchmaking when you queue for individual planets, as there's no line to wait in. As soon as there's enough players, an instance is started. You can only MM when you have a small amount of options for queuing with a large amount of players waiting to play, of which we currently are lacking.

I also remember reading somewhere that MWO was getting on Steam, but now I can't seem to remember where I read that.

Edited by borisof007, 07 July 2015 - 08:27 AM.