50 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Eldan Sontim, on 08 July 2015 - 12:57 AM, said:

I think they need to examine what is a critical hit...and why the LBX is a crit seeking weapon....

Is a critical hit something that just magically increases a projectile's damage, OR is it a hit that does damage to a critical system of the mech?

Is it because the pellets are smaller than a regular slug and can find cracks in armor that is not completely destroyed?

Wouldn't that mean that an LBX pellet "should" be able to crit internals even with yellow external armor?

Wouldn't it mean that it would hit components easier when there was no armor because the smaller pellets are less likely to hit internal structure and more likely to hit a squishy critical component than a solid shot would?

Why use increased damage to simulate a crit and not increased chance at component hits?

Just random thoughts.

LBX pellet only deals 1 base damage with a 14% of doing 2 damage, 8% chance of doing 4 damage, and 3% chance of doing 6 damage of crit damage to the internals. Which makes it worse than regular AC10 or PPCs at critting as their internal crit will deal full 10 damage, thus fully able to destroy equipments/weapons inside that section. LBX also sucks at stripping the armor off in the first place.

Perhaps as you mentioned--if LBX can crit even when the enemy has armor coverage, then it might be a different story.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 July 2015 - 01:19 AM.

[Eldan Sontim]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

LBX pellet only deals 1 base damage with a 14% of doing 2 damage, 8% chance of doing 4 damage, and 3% chance of doing 6 damage of crit damage to the internals. Which makes it worse than regular AC10 or PPCs at critting as their internal crit will deal full 10 damage, thus fully able to destroy equipments/weapons inside that section. LBX also sucks at stripping the armor off in the first place.

Perhaps as you mentioned--if LBX can crit even when the enemy has armor coverage, then it might be a different story.

Yes of course in the current system an AC10 crit is way better...

Which is why I'm asking why is a crit simply extra damage, doesn't that seem too basic for the word critical.
If you want to make a crit seeking weapon worth it, how about changing the definition to "A greater chance to hit an internal component"

Throw in a hefty increase to internal structure HP and you have a reason to want to take out those Weapons/Heatsinks/JJ whatever, rather than just doing as much damage as you can to explode the whole section.

[Hit the Deck]

El Bandito, on 07 July 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

Which is the point of this thread. There is very little reason to pick LBX over its regular AC or UAC equivalents.

Then there is still no point in picking LBX, is there? Since PGI is unable to make two separate rounds due to lack of knowledge, I prefer them to buff the scatter round.
....

Clan LB20-X was/is the preferred weapon choice for "striker" builds like this:

SCR-C

The advantage of using LB-X instead of missiles is that the cannon is cooler, has faster projectiles, and has far lower dispersion at close range. LB-X was chosen instead of UAC because of its FLD nature so the 'Mech can use hit and fade tactics.

I need to test it out with today's patch to see if LB-X is still preferable to UAC for builds like that.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 08 July 2015 - 01:51 AM.

[El Bandito]

Hit the Deck, on 08 July 2015 - 01:50 AM, said:

Clan LB20-X was/is the preferred weapon choice for "striker" builds like this:

SCR-C

The advantage of using LB-X instead of missiles is that the cannon is cooler, has faster projectiles, and has far lower dispersion at close range. LB-X was chosen instead of UAC because of its FLD nature so the 'Mech can use hit and fade tactics.

I need to test it out with today's patch to see if LB-X is still preferable to UAC for builds like that.

LB20X? Seriously?

Why not CSRMs instead if you want close up fight? Like this.

SCR-D

I doubt at 200 meters and beyond the LB20X has tighter spread than ASRM6...

Edited by El Bandito, 08 July 2015 - 02:02 AM.

[Telmasa]

I've seen plenty people still using LBXs on both IS and Clan 'mechs, I fail to see this as a problem.

[Hit the Deck]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:

LB20X? Seriously?

Why not CSRMs instead if you want close up fight? Like this.

SCR-D

I doubt at 200 meters and beyond the LB20X has tighter spread than ASRM6...

I have stated the reasons for bringing the cannon instead of the missiles. But I think the main advantage is that LB20-X pellets travel almost 4x faster compared to the missiles.

I have used both and it basically depends on your mood which one you want to take out for a ride. Missiles do greater burst damage but are more spread apart (also because you have to put them on different locations on your 'Mech), hotter, and slower. Take the boomstick if you want to shoot more accurate and precisely.

[El Bandito]

Hit the Deck, on 08 July 2015 - 02:37 AM, said:

I have stated the reasons for bringing the cannon instead of the missiles. But I think the main advantage is that LB20-X pellets travel almost 4x faster compared to the missiles.

I have used both and it basically depends on your mood which one you want to take out for a ride. Missiles do greater burst damage but are more spread apart (also because you have to put them on different locations on your 'Mech), hotter, and slower. Take the boomstick if you want to shoot more accurate and precisely.

Oh, my bad. I forgot LB20X has 1100 m/s, as opposed to 650 m/s of other AC20s.

[Hit the Deck]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2015 - 02:49 AM, said:

Oh, my bad. I forgot LB20X has 1100 m/s, as opposed to 650 m/s of other AC20s.

Yes, that's one of its strength.

BTW, I have tested it out and cUAC/20 is even better now. This is what I got on the first drop test (maybe just luck):



SCR-D

Although the cUAC/20 has been improved, I still use it on slow and big 'Mechs most of the time because of the burst fire so it still doesn't replace LB-X or SRMs for certain purposes. It's definitely a good alternative if you want to extend your reach (and hose the enemies with dakka!).

Edited by Hit the Deck, 08 July 2015 - 04:17 AM.

[Maxx Blue]

I'm going to hate myself for saying this because I hate them terribly in TT but...

What about giving the LBX guns a chance for through-armor crits?

Yep...I hate myself now.

[Mcgral18]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

LBX pellet only deals 1 base damage with a 14% of doing 2 damage, 8% chance of doing 4 damage, and 3% chance of doing 6 damage of crit damage to the internals. Which makes it worse than regular AC10 or PPCs at critting as their internal crit will deal full 10 damage, thus fully able to destroy equipments/weapons inside that section. LBX also sucks at stripping the armor off in the first place.

Perhaps as you mentioned--if LBX can crit even when the enemy has armor coverage, then it might be a different story.

Actually, those percentages are +14, +7 and +3

That's 25+14, 8+14, 3+3
For a total of 39+22+6, the 67%


It's also Critical Damage, so it deals 2 critical damage per crit to items, which transforms 15% of crit damage back to Internal Structure, or 0.3 extra real damage per crit.

[Deathlike]

Well, there are additional crit bonuses and crit damage multipliers (like, each pellet does more damage than normal vs internals).

It gets more complex, but LBX is woefully inefficient unless you facehug.