39 replies to this topic

[NoxMorbis]

I was thinking it would be really cool if we could buy and sell in game, like EVE where you can sell ships and other items to other players. Might as well start thinking big, like EVE big, right?

I mean why not go eventually big like EVE but keep the FPS instanced conflicts? That would be so awesome.

[Mikhail Krisa]

I would say no personally, but that is my opinion.

[NoxMorbis]

It would make the game more immerssive and thus more likely to continue to attract hard core gamers, like in EVE. Anything a game can do to get players to continually interact is a good thing. If you have ever played Eve, you'd know what I mean.

[Maric]

I think that would be a really cool option.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Being restrictive in the sense of not allowing interplayer transactions cuts down on account hacking as the hacker has nothing to gain if he can not sell off/give away your items

I vote No

[BenEEeees VAT GROWN BACON]

Something that works in another game my not work in this one.

[NoxMorbis]

Colonel Wolfe, on 04 July 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

Being restrictive in the sense of not allowing interplayer transactions cuts down on account hacking as the hacker has nothing to gain if he can not sell off/give away your items

I vote No

I'm not aware of any large games, like EVE, where this is a problem.

If you guys want a closed off game where all you do is climb challenge ladders and nothing else, people are going to get bored. There must be some other way to engage people long term.

[DarkCain]

As much as I like to help fellow team members get up on the competition, my answer is no. Raises too much potential for essentially money laundering. I'm thinking of gold farmers and account hackers common to other MMOs. You'd find one guy running some 10 accounts for money and mechs then.

Edited by DarkCain, 04 July 2012 - 11:28 PM.

[NoxMorbis]

Works well in all other legitimate MMOs including EVE, Mortal online, and others. In fact, it's a core player necessity. How would you launder C bills? I mean you're not going to sell a mech for less than you bought it from the MWO website, nor take all of the time simply to give it away cheaply. And "account hackers" are not "common" to other MMOs. If they were, the MMO would be out of business.

What would be the advantage of running 10 accounts for money? I'm not following you. The way the system would work is that you enter into a contract and you set the terms. If the term are met, you either purchased yourself a mech, or traded it, or you sold a mech, or traded one.

This is a system that is tried and proven for at least a decade now, including Ultima Online since 1997, Mortal Online, Dark Age of Camelot, WoW, EQ, EVE, and all other MMOs.

Also, what if a guy wants to acquire money using 10 accounts? You can only pilot one mech at a time--lol. I mean who cares if he has 500 mechs and 2 billion C-Bills? Not only that, but one account only has X number of bays for mechs even. I'm not getting what you're afraid of here.

Geeze where do you guys get this information?

[Gishank]

Allowing interplayer trading encourages goldfarmers, a proven statistic. Plus given the way that MWO is executed (more akin to WoT's style) I don't see the purpose in having interplayer trading. Ergo I voted no. Ultimately though it's up to th edevs to decide how they wish to progress with ideas.

Edited by Gishank, 05 July 2012 - 12:10 AM.

[Kodiak Knight]

I do not think that selling&buying 'Mechs is going to make many people want to play longer honestly.
It might be interesting to do, but I see two big things that stand against this:
1. As has been stated before, being able to trade things will make the game much more appealing to hackers.
2. Trading between players might run counter to PGI's business model. Worst case scenario would be players selling their stuff to other players for real currency, while PGI doesn't sell much anymore and goes bankrupt, which means game over.

Games like WoT are doing fine without trading.

[NoxMorbis]

Kodiak Knight, on 05 July 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

I do not think that selling&buying 'Mechs is going to make many people want to play longer honestly.
It might be interesting to do, but I see two big things that stand against this:
1. As has been stated before, being able to trade things will make the game much more appealing to hackers.
2. Trading between players might run counter to PGI's business model. Worst case scenario would be players selling their stuff to other players for real currency, while PGI doesn't sell much anymore and goes bankrupt, which means game over.

Games like WoT are doing fine without trading.

Ok so your last point does make sense. I guess you could have people in a very poor country playing 24-7 in order to make 50 bucks a month or something like that, which would be worth it for them. And yes, even in EVE there are people selling game money for real money cheaper than you can buy the game curency from the EVE online store. Even though, it hasn't hurt them much.

[Reoh]

I'd rather not see player auction houses in MWO for the reasons stated previously. Most of the games that have player Auction Houses I usually end up avoiding because of all the wannabe stockbrokers inflating the crap out of prices. I'd really rather just play the game and have fun.

NoxMorbis, on 04 July 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

I'm not aware of any large games, like EVE, where this is a problem.

If you guys want a closed off game where all you do is climb challenge ladders and nothing else, people are going to get bored. There must be some other way to engage people long term.

I'm aware of lots of games like that which are doing quite well, they're just not called EVE.

[BlackAbbot]

I had thought that PGI had flat out said there would be no in game AH or player Market, but I've been unable so far to turn up an actual link to any such quote. Personally I'm in favour of player trading because I like the economic aspects, however I think it would only work and/or be necessary if you also had some sort of salvage system. Artificial market scarcities of certain items are also important too because really the only limit on supply is how much time people are willing to spend grinding for the items.

As several members have pointed out the introduction of any player trading system does bring a whole heap of problems though and I think if you're saying EVE has no problems with gold farmers you are leading a very sheltered EVE life. The fact that CCP on the whole turns a very blind eye to gold farming is not the same as no problem. On the whole CCP turns a very blind eye to anything that is not actively hacking the servers or picking on ex BoB members. If you're not aware of any large games where gold farming is a problem you have also clearly never played WoW where it is almost impossible to walk through a capital without getting spammed with offers of cheap gold by throwaway accounts.

There are some pretty simple things that can be done to limit gold farmers potential market though.
1) No method of purchasing premium currency with C-Bills. If you can only purchase premium currency through PGI then you can only buy premium mechs/premium account time through PGI.
2) No transfer of premium currency.
3) No gifting of items/C-Bills and no direct player-player sales. This might sound harsh, but it's the simplest way to stop external transactions. The entire premise of the transaction is that you give them RL$ and they give you C-Bills. If you can't do that in a single transaction you're adding a level of complexity that forces people to shy away. When the proposition goes from 'give me money and I'll give you c-bills' to 'give me money and then list an item on the black market for 100 times it's normal sale value and I promise I'll buy it' it's suddenly a lot more dicey even for the most gullible. It's also a lot easier to track those sort of transactions through the ingame AH.

[DarkCain]

NoxMorbis, on 04 July 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Works well in all other legitimate MMOs including EVE, Mortal online, and others. In fact, it's a core player necessity. How would you launder C bills? I mean you're not going to sell a mech for less than you bought it from the MWO website, nor take all of the time simply to give it away cheaply. And "account hackers" are not "common" to other MMOs. If they were, the MMO would be out of business.

What would be the advantage of running 10 accounts for money? I'm not following you. The way the system would work is that you enter into a contract and you set the terms. If the term are met, you either purchased yourself a mech, or traded it, or you sold a mech, or traded one.

This is a system that is tried and proven for at least a decade now, including Ultima Online since 1997, Mortal Online, Dark Age of Camelot, WoW, EQ, EVE, and all other MMOs.

Also, what if a guy wants to acquire money using 10 accounts? You can only pilot one mech at a time--lol. I mean who cares if he has 500 mechs and 2 billion C-Bills? Not only that, but one account only has X number of bays for mechs even. I'm not getting what you're afraid of here.

Geeze where do you guys get this information?

NDA...

[Wildcat]

I would like to see Trading at some point...

But I voted NO, mostly due to the Fact that this will Encourage Scamming, Phishing, Hacking, Botting, Key Loggers, Account and Identity Theft, and many many other Threats to the Game and Community


right now its best that MWO says away from Trading, as I said I would like to see Trading in MWO, that would open up soo many other possibilities for MWO but right now it would be the Death of the game

Until they introduce a good Free Safety Security Net for MWO

[Thorn Hallis]

If I'm not mistaken one of the developers allready stated that one cannot trade anything with other players.

[Icebound]

NO. No gold farmers!

[Blackoth]

I voted No, after thinking some, i do not want to invite an auction house into this game

Edited by Blackoth, 05 July 2012 - 12:20 PM.

[NoxMorbis]

BlackAbbot, on 05 July 2012 - 01:45 AM, said:

As several members have pointed out the introduction of any player trading system does bring a whole heap of problems though and I think if you're saying EVE has no problems with gold farmers you are leading a very sheltered EVE life. The fact that CCP on the whole turns a very blind eye to gold farming is not the same as no problem. On the whole CCP turns a very blind eye to anything that is not actively hacking the servers or picking on ex BoB members. If you're not aware of any large games where gold farming is a problem you have also clearly never played WoW where it is almost impossible to walk through a capital without getting spammed with offers of cheap gold by throwaway accounts.

No, I'm not saying that at all, or I didn't mean that specificaly. As I stated above, you can buy isk in EVE from nonCCP sources at about 30% better deal per dollar. These individuals live in realy poor countries and play EVE 24-7 and actually make enough money to feed themselves and their families. That's all they do is farm asteriods etc.

The problem is that if you buy the non OEM isk, you have no way to protect yourself if the person decideds to take your Paypal money and keep the isk too. Although this doesn't happen because that would destroy the black market and the fact that a one time 30 dollar rip off doesn't make sense when you can keep making that 30 dollars week after week.

I never bought black market cash. The 20-30% increase just wasn't worth it.

But back to MWO. If money takes as much time to generate in MWO as it does in EVE, then I doubt there will be much black market paypal problems. The reason CCP turns a blind eye is because it's impossible to stop black market cash. All of the transactions are made in game along the same terms as any trade or buy order. You just have to trust the person who gives it to you after you paypal them.

Even so, it's not a problem so much that it's undermining EVE's economic growth and sustainability.

The payoff is that you get a very robust market which people realy like and which becomes one of the life blood models of growing MMO comminities and depth in the game itself. And as we all know, depth, not breadth, keeps people playing.

All I'm saying is that if you lock a game down to a point that it's log in, shoot, log out, and all of your dealing with people is in a forum, well, that's not the best business model anymore. You need something more to keep players long term. Community is the way to do that. Although here we all are and MWO has only been what it is. So, go figure that one.

Every single MMO I've stoppeded playing, with the exception of UO in 2000 (right after Trammel release, at which time I quit) was due to lack of playing interactivity in game, wth the exception of UO, since we all quit when Trammel came out, even though in game interaction was peak.

I guess what I'm getting at here is the future where MWO becomes more EVE like, or Mortal Online like, or old school dark Age of Camelot which was more like instanced battle, though not really, but similar in that you could not fight in towns. You had to go to the wilderness. So in this case in MWO you would have your own realms, or cities, where you could get out of your mech, go into a bar, and check out what's for sale, shoot the crud with other pilots--in game--and also pilot your mech in the city when you go to do other in game necessities (have no idea what that might be). Then you could attack each other's realms, like in Dark Age of Camelot, and you would then become part of an attacking team or defending team, with some sort of consequences that affect the entire realm.

The main difference would be that the battes would not be sandbox but instanced, of course, due to the FPS nature of weapons (Although mortal Online has a sandbox world where the combat is FPS and not click select. And it works, as long as you are in the same country as the server--i.e., your ping is similar to others. And even then, they have been working to fix even longer pings to even the FPS aspect of their combat system.

So, in the future, MWO could become a full MMO type sandbox except played wth mechs, instead of horses and mages. Think of that. Scouts find invaders on their way to outpost Alpha, which is 50 miles to a civilian city. Opposition dispatches a group of pilots to intercept, and you get the idea. Instead of knowing you will be going into combat, you never know what's coming save scouts or electronic surveliance. Wow, huh?

Edited by NoxMorbis, 05 July 2012 - 12:48 PM.