497 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 10 July 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

Sure. When those of us who don't do well become better and then more of us stay in the Que. With a few exceptions, it looks like the player who don't know just how good they really are, are the ones complaining about CW. Those of us who don't let our Ego rule or are fantastic players... Don't seem to complain.

[Draal Kaan]

Hm, let me see if i get this right?

CW players complain that the queue is empty and the Pugs should join in (although some time ago they all told us to stay out because CW is for l33t-unit-gamers).
Pugs tell them, it isn't fun because of long wait, little payback and getting stomped.
So CW players tell the Pugs to join unit, pratice and stuff to avoid?
Wait, the CW players want the Puggers to join up. So THEY have to offer something. But to demand someone to join in and to take care to "play effectively in a group"...
I think, Captain Obvious had something to say about this.

Short:
CW isn't for Pugs (like me).
If CW is lacking participants, don't blame us (or even demand me/us to improve your game).


EDIT: Yay, 333 posts. I'm half-evil.

Edited by Draal Kaan, 11 July 2015 - 02:47 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Draal Kaan, on 11 July 2015 - 02:46 AM, said:

Hm, let me see if i get this right?

CW players complain that the queue is empty and the Pugs should join in (although some time ago they all told us to stay out because CW is for l33t-unit-gamers).
Pugs tell them, it isn't fun because of long wait, little payback and getting stomped.
So CW players tell the Pugs to join unit, pratice and stuff to avoid?
Wait, the CW players want the Puggers to join up. So THEY have to offer something. But to demand someone to join in and to take care to "play effectively in a group"...
I think, Captain Obvious had something to say about this.

Short:
CW isn't for Pugs (like me).
If CW is lacking participants, don't blame us (or even demand me/us to improve your game).


EDIT: Yay, 333 posts. I'm half-evil.

1. PGI told us this over a year ago, NOT the players. CW players are not the boogeyman you want them to be.

2. Because they, and seems you, never read or understood how MM in CW works, big surprise, and complain due to your lack of understanding. Yea, the 12man stomp LIE again, was hoping you would jump on that bandwagon too.

3. Yes, in the GROUP/UNIT centered part of the game, those in Groups/Units are telling solo pugs how to best enjoy CW as it is intended, sorry we want you to come play and enjoy it.

Yes, it is pretty obvious, the universe revolves around the precious, unique snowflake that are solo pugs and all must change to perpetuate the fantasy and over bloated sense of self worth.


Ok then, if CW is not fun for you to play by yourself, all alone, then don't blame us or demand our game mode to change to improve something you will not take part in.

[Love in an Annihilator]

TWIAFU, on 11 July 2015 - 03:02 AM, said:

1. PGI told us this over a year ago, NOT the players. CW players are not the boogeyman you want them to be.

2. Because they, and seems you, never read or understood how MM in CW works, big surprise, and complain due to your lack of understanding. Yea, the 12man stomp LIE again, was hoping you would jump on that bandwagon too.

3. Yes, in the GROUP/UNIT centered part of the game, those in Groups/Units are telling solo pugs how to best enjoy CW as it is intended, sorry we want you to come play and enjoy it.

Yes, it is pretty obvious, the universe revolves around the precious, unique snowflake that are solo pugs and all must change to perpetuate the fantasy and over bloated sense of self worth.


Ok then, if CW is not fun for you to play by yourself, all alone, then don't blame us or demand our game mode to change to improve something you will not take part in.

He did't say anything like that.

In general - not just you - stop pretending people who simply refuse an offer are "butthurt" or make demands to change your beloved gamemode.

They just say "no thanks" and only when asked (!) tell you under wich circumstances they would participate.

[Draal Kaan]

TWIAFU, on 11 July 2015 - 03:02 AM, said:

...snip...

Ok then, if CW is not fun for you to play by yourself, all alone, then don't blame us or demand our game mode to change to improve something you will not take part in.

Oh, i didn't.
I tried CW solo. Found it doesn't work for Pugs. So i left it alone. Some time ago i did voice this. But i just claimed that it is not i expected respectively that it is not built for type of gamer i am.
I know that some puggers still complain about CW. Yes, they are to blame as well. But i tell them leave CW and wait for what will happen.
From my point of view 99% of the pugs don't care about CW anymore. Only the dedicated unit players do (of course, as it is way more important for them to have "a deeper game").

But regarding this topic: Here are the CW guys complaing that CW is lacking participants and demand the pugs to join. While telling them what they have to do to be effective.
That is amusing me.
If CW fans want it to be populated with the solo guys, the mechanics have to be changed (or maybe expanded) not the players.


[Btw: When playing with my unit, i do CW. But very, very seldom due to the amount of time i can spare for the game in general.
So I prefer the Pug queue.]

[Joseph Mallan]

Draal Kaan, on 11 July 2015 - 03:15 AM, said:

Oh, i didn't.
I tried CW solo. Found it doesn't work for Pugs. So i left it alone. Some time ago i did voice this. But i just claimed that it is not i expected respectively that it is not built for type of gamer i am.
I know that some puggers still complain about CW. Yes, they are to blame as well. But i tell them leave CW and wait for what will happen.
From my point of view 99% of the pugs don't care about CW anymore. Only the dedicated unit players do (of course, as it is way more important for them to have "a deeper game").

But regarding this topic: Here are the CW guys complaing that CW is lacking participants and demand the pugs to join. While telling them what they have to do to be effective.
That is amusing me.
If CW fans want it to be populated with the solo guys, the mechanics have to be changed (or maybe expanded) not the players.


[Btw: When playing with my unit, i do CW. But very, very seldom due to the amount of time i can spare for the game in general.
So I prefer the Pug queue.]

The Highlighted is a faulty generalization. It didn't work for you. You are not every PUG.

[TWIAFU]

Rick Sanchez 1895, on 11 July 2015 - 03:14 AM, said:

He did't say anything like that.

Russ Bullock, on 13 December 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

The whole concept is that the match maker and CW was definitely built primarily for Units and groups of 12. It still works for small groups and solo players but they can get left behind - we are working on ways to greatly improve the ability of small groups and solo players to find matches more on this at the end.

Say what again?

[Love in an Annihilator]

TWIAFU, on 11 July 2015 - 03:24 AM, said:

Say what again?

DRAAL KAAN didn't say he wanted to betreated like a special snowflake. I even highlighted the part i meant, it was not about Russ.

[TWIAFU]

Rick Sanchez 1895, on 11 July 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

DRAAL KAAN didn't say he wanted to betreated like a special snowflake. I even highlighted the part i meant, it was not about Russ.

Next time, include context so people can follow.

[Draal Kaan]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 July 2015 - 03:19 AM, said:

The Highlighted is a faulty generalization. It didn't work for you. You are not every PUG.

Nope it isn't.
And yes, i am only one.
But isn't what i said. I stated my point. and then came to WHAT I THINK can be refered to most pugs.

Like above. And my point was attacked by assuming stuff which is not correct.
TWIAFU adressed me directly, so i am talking back.

Anyway, this does not change the overall situation.
Most pugs don't care. Some complain. Yes.
But that does not give a CW player the right to demand a pug "to change his game".


EDIT:
But i think this topic (and similar ones) is too emotional. And any discussion will lead us to nowhwere. I regret chiming in here.

I understand CW is important to you.
Hell, back then i wanted it to suceed too.

But if you want to achive a better CW experience, you have to adress PGI. Not other players.

Edited by Draal Kaan, 11 July 2015 - 03:36 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Draal Kaan, on 11 July 2015 - 03:30 AM, said:

Nope it isn't.
And yes, i am only one.
But isn't what i said. I stated my point. and then came to WHAT I THINK can be refered to most pugs.

Like above. And my point was attacked by assuming stuff which is not correct.
TWIAFU adressed me directly, so i am talking back.

Anyway, this does not change the overall situation.
Most pugs don't care. Some complain. Yes.
But that does not give a CW player the right to demand a pug "to change his game".


EDIT:
But i think this topic (and similar ones) is too emotional. And any discussion will lead us to nowhwere. I regret chiming in here.

I understand CW is important to you.
Hell, back then i wanted it to suceed too.

But if you want to achive a better CW experience, you have to adress PGI. Not other players.

You said it doesn't work for PUGs. That implies ALL PUGS. Not some PUGs not Many PUGs, not even Most PUGs Just PUGS, that is all inclusive language. And thus a faulty generalization.

I don't hang up on most language mistakes, but I will point out faulty generalizations when I see em.

[Draal Kaan]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 July 2015 - 03:40 AM, said:

You said it doesn't work for PUGs. That implies ALL PUGS. Not some PUGs not Many PUGs, not even Most PUGs Just PUGS, that is all inclusive language. And thus a faulty generalization.

I don't hang up on most language mistakes, but I will point out faulty generalizations when I see em.

Hm ok, now i see it.
I could blame not being a native speaker.
But ok, i have to admit i should have written "did not work for me".
Though i am pretty sure that most pugs share that feeling.

[TWIAFU]

Draal Kaan, on 11 July 2015 - 03:30 AM, said:

Like above. And my point was attacked by assuming stuff which is not correct.
TWIAFU adressed me directly, so i am talking back.


But if you want to achive a better CW experience, you have to adress PGI. Not other players.

Ack, sorry if you felt attacked, not my intent in the least and apologize if you felt that I did.

Your right, CW is a emotional subject and it can get out of hand. Natural when you are dealing with people and friendships and when people that do not have this experience want our experience with it to end.

What can we, the CW players, take to PGI that they have not already told solo players about CW? If solo players do not use the very tools they asked for to improve CW for themselves, what can we offer? Should PGI waste more time and money on solo CW knowing that whatever they do won't get used to justify costs?

Unless CW is opened wide to solo play and that open HUGE can of worms now and down the road or CW is locked down to be just for groups/units. Maybe leave it as is and have popup warning for solo players entering CW. Maybe when solo players enter CW they are automatically entered into LFG.

Maybe remove the Mech Bay rewards as low hanging fruit and place them higher so no reward farmers.

Maybe lock down queue definitions and entry requirements?

There ARE solutions. No matter what they are in the end, first things first! We need to move into Beta 3 see what that is, give feedback, and move on to Beta4. CW is not going to be something that is here as fast as we want it. Hope to see Beta 3 live before Steam crapstorm.

[Weeny Machine]

Draal Kaan, on 11 July 2015 - 02:46 AM, said:

Hm, let me see if i get this right?

CW players complain that the queue is empty and the Pugs should join in (although some time ago they all told us to stay out because CW is for l33t-unit-gamers).
Pugs tell them, it isn't fun because of long wait, little payback and getting stomped.
So CW players tell the Pugs to join unit, pratice and stuff to avoid?
Wait, the CW players want the Puggers to join up. So THEY have to offer something. But to demand someone to join in and to take care to "play effectively in a group"...
I think, Captain Obvious had something to say about this.

Short:
CW isn't for Pugs (like me).
If CW is lacking participants, don't blame us (or even demand me/us to improve your game).


EDIT: Yay, 333 posts. I'm half-evil.

Their behaviour is even more paradox:
They tell everyone CW is for the elite. That people and solos should go the **** out of THEIR mode.
...then they whine about long queues.

Fantastic. I love humanity. So much irony.

[Joseph Mallan]

Draal Kaan, on 11 July 2015 - 03:45 AM, said:

Hm ok, now i see it.
I could blame not being a native speaker.
But ok, i have to admit i should have written "did not work for me".
Though i am pretty sure that most pugs share that feeling.

This is NOT a faulty generalization!

Then again Most PUGs don't realize they are not as good a player as they think they are. Heck I probably give myself more credit than I deserve as well!

Bush Hopper, on 11 July 2015 - 03:52 AM, said:

Their behaviour is even more paradox:
They tell everyone CW is for the elite. That people and solos should go the **** out of THEIR mode.
...then they whine about long queues.

Fantastic. I love humanity. So much irony.

Just like Pugs wanted teams out of their Queue cause STOMPS. Now teams are gone and I still read about and experience getting stomped in PUG. You do have to laugh to avoid crying.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 July 2015 - 03:55 AM.

[ComradeHavoc]

Kyp Durron, on 08 July 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Seriously, why are the pug queues full and the CW a wasteland?

Well as a PUG I have no idea what's going on lore wise, the UI is a mess, PUG matches are fun enough, Cw seems like a very glorified competitive. There's no incentive for us to play Cw, maybe if they were obvious about massive C-Bill bonuses or something besides a nice little trinket after a horrid amount of gameplay time.

[seye]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 July 2015 - 03:40 AM, said:

You said it doesn't work for PUGs. That implies ALL PUGS. Not some PUGs not Many PUGs, not even Most PUGs Just PUGS, that is all inclusive language. And thus a faulty generalization.

I don't hang up on most language mistakes, but I will point out faulty generalizations when I see em.

ITT, pedantic forum warrior argues over phrasing rather then addressing the guy's clear overall point

[Draal Kaan]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 July 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

This is NOT a faulty generalization!

I did well now. Me gets cookie?

[Weeny Machine]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 July 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

This is NOT a faulty generalization!

Then again Most PUGs don't realize they are not as good a player as they think they are. Heck I probably give myself more credit than I deserve as well!


Just like Pugs wanted teams out of their Queue cause STOMPS. Now teams are gone and I still read about and experience getting stomped in PUG. You do have to laugh to avoid crying.

Sure there are and will always stomps in single queue for various reasons. Comparing that to the epic paradox that is the CW elite's complain...that is grasping for straws

[TWIAFU]

seye, on 11 July 2015 - 03:57 AM, said:

ITT, pedantic forum warrior argues over phrasing rather then addressing the guy's clear overall point

Says pedantic forum warrior adding nothing to thread.

See what I did there?