32 replies to this topic

[Mainhunter]

I just noticed, that the AC/10 Ammo was increased from 15 -> 20 rounds. Did PGI on purpose let the LBX/10 stay at 15 rounds per tonn?

[SirNotlag]

I think maybe they forgot that the LBX was a thing.

[Juodas Varnas]

What's an LBX? Is that some sort of drug?
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They should've increased ALL ballistics ammo, not just AC10

[LordNothing]

they should have moved every ballistic up to 160 dmg/ton (or perhaps 180). they should have buffed the ac10 in a different way, such as cd or velocity or both. lbx should all get their spreads tightened.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 August 2015 - 05:51 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

LordNothing, on 15 August 2015 - 05:46 AM, said:

they should have moved every ballistic up to 160 dmg/ton. they should have buffed the ac10 in a different way, such as cd or velocity or both. lbx should all get their spreads tightened.

I'd say 200* damage/ton. That is 2 times the TT values (kind of like the Armor is also doubled). I'd also increase the LRM count to 240 missiles per ton (TT value is 120) and SRMs to 200 per ton (TT values for SRM2 and 4 are 100 per ton, SRM6 is 90 per ton, for some reason)

I mean, that might make them more attractive when compared to the no-ammo Lasers, especially when it comes to Community Warface

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 15 August 2015 - 05:52 AM.

[Davegt27]

I put 4 LB2 X (LBX2 sounds cooler just like LBX10 sounds cool) on my Hellbringer

The sound that thing makes is bad sass

The AC10 is a horrible weapon looks and feels like one of those tennis ball machines
Not surprised people don’t use the weapon

Then again maybe I can put some on my Orion

Off to the Mech Lab

[Robot Kenshiro]

AC10. Love this weapon. Glad the rise in ammo was implemented. My AC 10 ILYA. Is much happier now. I still run dry but at least my dmg is 600 average. With all modules for AC 10. Chain firing that mech is so much fun. Feels like you are shooting AC5s when you chain fire. Ppl back off pretty quick. Specially when you mix an alpha with the chain fire. Lots of components destroyed. Only thing is. It's not as fast as other mechs. So have to always be on the move. I know alot of ppl love AC20s I do too. But I like the range of the 10. Specially with certain quirked mechs.
o7.

[LordNothing]

Juodas Varnas, on 15 August 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

I'd say 200* damage/ton. That is 2 times the TT values (kind of like the Armor is also doubled). I'd also increase the LRM count to 240 missiles per ton (TT value is 120) and SRMs to 200 per ton (TT values for SRM2 and 4 are 100 per ton, SRM6 is 90 per ton, for some reason)

I mean, that might make them more attractive when compared to the no-ammo Lasers, especially when it comes to Community Warface

idk, going too high would turn certain ballistics beasts into monsters. i expect my 3x ac20 dire to kill any single mech it faces down in a few seconds, but after 3 easy kills the ammo starts running low. this is one of the drawbacks of boating ballistics, give us too much ammo and they will be unstoppable death stars.

made a little table of number of damage/ton vs ac class. i included the 140 level because that is what the ac20 uses, ac10 is currently at the 200 level, all other weapons i believe are currently at the 150 level. for clan ac/uac weapons multiply by shots/burst.

...................ac class (15 = gauss)
dmg/ton......2......5......10......15......20
140.............70....28....14......9-......7
150.............75....30....15......10.....8+
160.............80....32....16......11+...8
180.............90....36....18......12.....9
200.............100..40....20......13-....10
numbers rounded to nearest integer, + or - indicates rounded up or down

i like the 180 line because all numbers are unrounded integers (horray ocd!). you still have the problem where one weapon (ac20 or gauss) gets shafted a round on half ton clips. that doesnt go away no matter which dmg/ton you end up using.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 August 2015 - 06:32 AM.

[Escef]

Mainhunter, on 15 August 2015 - 04:58 AM, said:

I just noticed, that the AC/10 Ammo was increased from 15 -> 20 rounds. Did PGI on purpose let the LBX/10 stay at 15 rounds per tonn?

As for as we know, yes, it was a purposeful decision. We have no reason to assume otherwise. Most likely they adjusted it simply to see how it does or does not alter the weapon being used.

[Tennex]

AC10 is still going to be bad. They need to actually buff the rate of fire, or velocity. SOMETHING

[Juodas Varnas]

Tennex, on 15 August 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

AC10 is still going to be bad. They need to actually buff the rate of fire, or velocity. SOMETHING

I'd vote for a projectile velocity increase for all ballistics and PPCs (except for Goose rifles and AC2s, those are pretty fast already).

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 15 August 2015 - 07:06 AM.

[Khobai]

The LBX10 needs the same ammo increase because its bad too.

The LBX also needs the pellet damage increased by 10%-20%

And the AC/10 probably needs a faster cooldown

[Mainhunter]

I think, the AC/10 is just fine... most IS mechs who can carry it have ballistic quirks anyway. A bit more damage and ammo increase I would sub too.

[Alek Ituin]

Tennex, on 15 August 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

AC10 is still going to be bad. They need to actually buff the rate of fire, or velocity. SOMETHING

Don't make me break out my "Why the AC/10 has more appreciable advantages for the strategically minded and tactically flexible" argument.

Just don't.

[Tennex]

Alek Ituin, on 15 August 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

Don't make me break out my "Why the AC/10 has more appreciable advantages for the strategically minded and tactically flexible" argument.

Just don't.

you must be the only strategically minded and tactically flexible person in the game then lol

[Alek Ituin]

Tennex, on 15 August 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

you must be the only strategically minded and tactically flexible person in the game then lol

Alrighty then...

AC/10 v AC/20: A breakdown

Lets start with the basic stats, just to get everything out there, and give everybody a base to work from without leaving the post.

AC/10:
DAM - 10
Velocity - 950
Range (Opt/Max) - 450/900
Tonnage - 12
CS - 7
Heat - 3
CD - 2.5s
DPS - 4.00
DPH - 3.33
Ammo/ton - 20
Ammo DMG/ton - 200

AC/20:
DAM - 20
Velocity - 650
Range (Opt/Max) - 270/540
Tonnage - 14
CS - 10
Heat - 6
CD - 4s
DPS - 5
DPH - 3.33
Ammo/ton - 7
Ammo DMG/ton - 140

So lets list advantages and disadvantages

AC/10:
Longer range
Higher velocity
Lower heat
Higher ROF
Less fitting resources
More A-DMG/ton
More Ammo/ton

AC/20:
Higher DAM
Higher DPS

Ouch... Looks like the AC/10 holds all the cards here. But lets look at it from a fitting perspective, eh? The AC/10 weighs 2 tons less and takes up 3 less CS. That lets the AC/10 be mounted with XL engines (or inside arms), and have additional tonnage for 2 tons (40rnds/400 DAM) of ammunition before meeting the weight of the AC/20. Meanwhile, an AC/20 with 3 tons (21rnds/420 DAM) of ammunition weighs a whopping 17 tons! For the same weight, an AC/10 can be fed with 5(!) tons of ammunition, for a total of 100 rounds, or 1000 potential damage!

Not only that, but the AC/10 can apply that damage at almost double the optimal range, with a 300m/s higher velocity than the AC/20, and at almost double the ROF. No matter how you spin it, the AC/10 maintains extreme advantages over the AC/20 in all but two areas: damage per second and damage per shot.

Thus, the AC/10 is superior for the strategically minded and/or tactically flexible.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 15 August 2015 - 09:20 AM.

[Alan Davion]

Juodas Varnas, on 15 August 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

I'd say 200* damage/ton. That is 2 times the TT values (kind of like the Armor is also doubled). I'd also increase the LRM count to 240 missiles per ton (TT value is 120) and SRMs to 200 per ton (TT values for SRM2 and 4 are 100 per ton, SRM6 is 90 per ton, for some reason)

I mean, that might make them more attractive when compared to the no-ammo Lasers, especially when it comes to Community Warface

Probably because 6 is not a direct multiple of 10 or 100, like the SRM2/4 or LRM5/10/15/20.

The final salvo of an SRM6 with the current 100 rounds/ton only shoots 4 missiles instead of 6, so I can see why TT value for SRM6 ammo is 90/ton.

[Juodas Varnas]

Alan Davion, on 15 August 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

Probably because 6 is not a direct multiple of 10 or 100, like the SRM2/4 or LRM5/10/15/20.

The final salvo of an SRM6 with the current 100 rounds/ton only shoots 4 missiles instead of 6, so I can see why TT value for SRM6 ammo is 90/ton.

To be honest, they could've given the SRMs 120 missiles/ton. Then SRM2s would have 60 shots/ton, SRM4s would have 30 shots/ton and SRM6s would have 20 shots/ton.

It's just one of those things in BT that just don't make a lot of sense.

[Greenjulius]

The AC10 is not a "bad" weapon. The problem is that its velocity and range is too low.

It resides in a bad place too... too heavy for lights, not powerful enough to be ran as a single weapon. It usually gets skipped over for the AC20 for this reason. It gets skipped over for AC5s on lighter mechs because it is quite a bit lighter and easier to use due to cool down, range and velocity.

It still can lay out some nice DPS and DPH in a double configuration however.

I believe the solution is an increase in velocity and range. Put it slightly closer to the Clan UAC10, which is currently a superior weapon in all categories (tonnage, velocity, range, UAC) except for single projectile vs 3 projectiles.

[Greenjulius]

Alek Ituin, on 15 August 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

Thus, the AC/10 is superior for the strategically minded and/or tactically flexible.

You forgot AC5.