25 replies to this topic

[Kain Demos]

Who out here plays with the Y-Axis inverted?

I have done so in all games since the mid-90s at least, I know for sure I played MW2 this way (can't remember if it could be changed or not) both with a mouse and with a 2-button joystick.

I was playing another game the other night that does not let you invert Y (World of Warships) and was struggling because after playing this way for so long, it is of course completely natural and to do the opposite is nearly impossible. Whenever I play another a new game this is one of the first things I look for in the controls.

The first "pure" FPS games I ever played online heavily were UT and Counterstrike (and later Source) and I remember most people played inverted back then but according to the people I used to play MWO (that have now moved on to Warships) with they think I am nuts and backwards. I figured this can't be the case--surely lots of old school guys are still around that learned to play that way when games were in their infancy and have never changed.

Edited by Kain Demos, 10 July 2015 - 10:26 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Never. But I have a buddy who swears by it. I think it's just so we don't try to use his machine at LAN parties.

[Lostdragon]

Used to play flight sims like this, but haven't done so since the '90s or early '00s.

[Revis Volek]

Never and dont plan to start now...

I never understood really why it was better...i guess just personal preference.

[Roadkill]

I guess it depends on which way you interpret "inverted".

Originally, joysticks were the main gaming controllers. Push a joystick forward to dive (look down), pull back to climb (look up). When games started using mice also, mouse movements mimicked joystick movements. Thus "inverted" meant that you pushed the mouse forward to look up and pulled it back to look down.

So I still play "normal" by the original definitions. Shooters tend to default to "inverted" for me, and I just can't get used to it.

[Kain Demos]

DarthRevis, on 10 July 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Never and dont plan to start now...

I never understood really why it was better...i guess just personal preference.

No way is "better"---its just what you are used to or not.

Inverted IS more intuitive though if you think about it. When you pilot a craft that is the way it works but also think about aiming a rifle. You are laying in the prone looking at your target 600m out. You have already adjusted your elevation so that POA=POI according to your DOPE sheet and your crosshairs are above the bullseye--you need to aim down. You do this by moving the stock of your rifle UP, not down and vice versa.

Edited by Kain Demos, 10 July 2015 - 10:16 AM.

[Kain Demos]

Roadkill, on 10 July 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

I guess it depends on which way you interpret "inverted".

Originally, joysticks were the main gaming controllers. Push a joystick forward to dive (look down), pull back to climb (look up). When games started using mice also, mouse movements mimicked joystick movements. Thus "inverted" meant that you pushed the mouse forward to look up and pulled it back to look down.

So I still play "normal" by the original definitions. Shooters tend to default to "inverted" for me, and I just can't get used to it.

This is what I remember as well--in the early days of computer gaming it seems that what is now called inverted was standard and there was usually no way to change it and later on as games started coming out that defaulted to up being up, down being down, etc I could never even come CLOSE to getting used to it and had to change it to what I was used to.

I guess this probably comes down to a question of how long you have been PC gaming--if you've been doing it since the early/mid 90s or longer you probably developed the habit and never shook it but if you are a millenial then up being down and vice versa is alien.

I really never gave it much thought until the other night when a couple of guys made it sound like I was some sort of whackjob for playing MWO this way.

Edited by Kain Demos, 10 July 2015 - 10:16 AM.

[Twilight Fenrir]

With joysticks, inverted is more sensible. If MWO was like... At all playable with a Joystick, I'd be all over it. But, I'm too accustomed to my mouse working on my desktop where up and to the left moves the curser.... Up, and to the left

I miss using my joystick in MW4

[Y E O N N E]

I always play all my games with the Y-axis inverted. My first shooting game was Wing Commander on the PC, and joysticks are always inverted by default because that's how it works. Activision;s 1998 Battlezone was the next shooting game I moved to, and it used the mouse set to inverted by default as well (and "E" set to jump).

Thus, all of my games have inverted mouse Y-axis and jump set to "E."

[poohead]

Yes.

[Trev Firestorm]

I've always inverted for flight, but it doesn't make sense on most everything else. A weird thing I do do is set "q" as jump "e" as crouch "r" prone (when applicable) and "f" as reload... yet left JJ alone in this game for some reason.

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 10 July 2015 - 10:27 AM.

[BigJim]

Here; First mouse-driven game (wehre you control directly with the mouse, I don't mean like Cannon Fodder or Lemmings) I played was A-10 Cuba!, and that was iirc default inverted, and so I became used to it, felt more natural.

Later, shareware Quake and Unreal, UT99, etc.. all had to have an inverted mouse option for me, otherwise it's impossible to play..

Nowadays I would even begin to bother trying a game that doesn't have it, it would break too much coordination...

Edited by BigJim, 10 July 2015 - 10:39 AM.

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Always inverted, I can't play well at all non-inverted. Just learned it that way on Goldeneye and it's stuck with me.

[CDLord HHGD]

For mouse, no. If I used a joystick or D-Pad, then yes.

[Alistair Winter]

Yep, always inverted. Didn't realize this marks me as an old school gamer, I thought it was just a personal preference thing.

I wonder where I got it from too. Maybe the old TIE fighter game? I think Quake was the first FPS I played with a mouse. I played Wolfenstein and Doom with the keyboard. Did Quake have the mouse inverted by default?

[Kain Demos]

Alistair Winter, on 10 July 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Yep, always inverted. Didn't realize this marks me as an old school gamer, I thought it was just a personal preference thing.

I wonder where I got it from too. Maybe the old TIE fighter game? I think Quake was the first FPS I played with a mouse. I played Wolfenstein and Doom with the keyboard. Did Quake have the mouse inverted by default?

I pondered this as well when I was trying to figure out where it started--I played Wolfenstein, Doom, and Quake as well in their heyday (anyone else remember Descent? Those were great for their time) and assume they were as well but after a few seconds I remembered Wolfenstein and Doom had NO Y AXIS movement. It was horizontal only and if something was above you in doom (Cacodemons from Doom for instance--I don't remember wolfenstein having anythign flying/floating) you had to rely on the game aiming for you. Quake I do not remember much.....I was not as into it.

Edited by Kain Demos, 10 July 2015 - 11:11 AM.

[LordNothing]

i have always inverted. it makes it feel more like a 3d shooter and less like a point and click adventure game.

when i started playing games like quake and descent people thought i was weird because i didnt even use a mouse. descent made me so freakishly good with a keyboard that i didnt start using a mouse until quake 2. i always inverted my keys though, down pulled up. before descent there was elite, which was played with a keyboard only with inverted pitch.

in mechwarrior 2 i had always used a joystick because it was marketed as a sim. then freespace turned me into a joystick fanatic. id still be using a joystick if not for mechanical failure. i still invert no matter what the controls.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 July 2015 - 11:37 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Kain Demos, on 10 July 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

I pondered this as well when I was trying to figure out where it started--I played Wolfenstein, Doom, and Quake as well in their heyday (anyone else remember Descent? Those were great for their time) and assume they were as well but after a few seconds I remembered Wolfenstein and Doom had NO Y AXIS movement. It was horizontal only and if something was above you in doom (Cacodemons from Doom for instance--I don't remember wolfenstein having anythign flying/floating) you had to rely on the game aiming for you. Quake I do not remember much.....I was not as into it.

Exactly the same for me. I wasn't really into Quake either, though I did play through it. Descent was the first game that came to mind, but I'm pretty sure I played that with a keyboard as well. Although I think I may have played Descent 2 with a mouse. Maybe that's when it started.

Btw, did you see the Descent Underground kickstarter? Kind of sad to see Descent, which was really revolutionary in the 1990's, come back with a really outdated reboot. Descent Underground looks like it could easily have been made 5 years ago.

https://descendentstudios.com/

[Kain Demos]

Alistair Winter, on 10 July 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Exactly the same for me. I wasn't really into Quake either, though I did play through it. Descent was the first game that came to mind, but I'm pretty sure I played that with a keyboard as well. Although I think I may have played Descent 2 with a mouse. Maybe that's when it started.

Btw, did you see the Descent Underground kickstarter? Kind of sad to see Descent, which was really revolutionary in the 1990's, come back with a really outdated reboot. Descent Underground looks like it could easily have been made 5 years ago.

https://descendentstudios.com/

I guess that's what happens on a limited budget. Coming from the point of view of someone who plays a lot of "retro" games (basically, if it is a quality game I have ever played I will still play it occasionally) if the gameplay quality is there like the originals then those graphics are definitely playable and I would buy it. Hell, if they just remade 1 and 2 with graphics like that I would buy them.

[Soy]

Alistair Winter, on 10 July 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Didn't realize this marks me as an old school gamer, I thought it was just a personal preference thing.

it doesn't, it is just pref.

btw ewwwww @ this thread, gross