318 replies to this topic

[Juodas Varnas]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 12 July 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

You underestimate my ability to turn around and pretend AC/20s don't exist :V

I will add you IS plebeian and we shall duel tonight!

I don't have premium time and i ain't buying it!
I'm pretty sure all players need premium time to be able to have a private match.

Let's just assume you win, because i'm bad at video games.

[Void Angel]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 12 July 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

Mr. Fatlas... I want you to be... The Ant Man...

Make it the size of an elemental :V

Nah, the Atlas just needs to work out - I've dumped significant amounts of armor from my arms, because I never lose them before the torsos. For a chassis that does only one thing well - brawling - that's a big weakness.

[xe N on]

This vote is just bad. Clan mechs should have been excluded from the vote from the beginning or got their own voting. Comapred to e.g. a Catapult, Quickdraw or a Shadowhawk the nova is just 200% better, even though it need some resize.

Edited by xe N on, 12 July 2015 - 11:33 AM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Juodas Varnas, on 12 July 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

I don't have premium time and i ain't buying it!
I'm pretty sure all players need premium time to be able to have a private match.

Let's just assume you win, because i'm bad at video games.

Awwwww, com'on, im sure we could work somthin out!

[Juodas Varnas]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 12 July 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

Awwwww, com'on, im sure we could work somthin out!

gg close

Uller is 12 votes ahead. Centurion got legged, can't win the race.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

xe N on, on 12 July 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

This vote is just bad. Clan mechs should have been excluded from the vote from the beginning or got their own voting. Comapred to e.g. a Catapult or a Shadowhawk the nova is just 200% better, even though it need some resize.

He's right D: I've only seen the naked 3D model of the Shadowcat so far and I already want to vote on it to get rescaled. It's too wide.

PGI I demand that you throw clans out of this vote and give us our own chance to vote after the full release of Wave III.

I can't tell if im joking anymore >.>

[Michael Howell]

Can this be advertised on the front page of the website/launcher? Be nice if more folks knew this was going on!

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Juodas Varnas, on 12 July 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

gg close

Uller is 12 votes ahead. Centurion got legged, can't win the race.

Well it's taken the lead from the kitfox once already, it might do it again.

[1453 R]

I am super disappoint that there's no 'Pick 5' option, or even just a 'Pick 3'. This pick-one-and-only-one thing skews the results badly, as people vote for their personal favorites and not for what they honestly feel needs rescaling. That sort of horsep!ss is why the Shadow Hawk is even in this when there's, like, literally every other medium in the game not named Stormcrow that needs it more.

That said, I voted for the Quickdraw because I truly believe the QD is the worst abortion of scaling and bad-modeling in this game and needs the most work, and simply wish to state that it's truly disgusting - disgusting - that the FREAKING CATAPULT is beating the Quickdraw handily.

Sigh. So much bad poll. At least the Nova is getting all the votes it deserves - I very nearly voted Nova over QD, but in the end I figured I can't complain about the QD's scaling for ever-since-it-released and then not do something about it the one and only chance we'll have.

Blagh. Piranha, keep a better leash on your modelers in the future. MWO playerbase, STOP VOTING FOR THINGS THAT DON'T MAKE SENSE O_O

[Telmasa]

Seems to me like this poll is working out.

I just hope that the next-up contending mechs that didn't make the top 5, will get attention during the next work cycle, so to speak.

[Odanan]

Tennex, on 10 July 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

Something to keep in mind while making these votes

This is a public service!!

[Anarcho]

NOVA!
O
W
!

[Fleeb the Mad]

With one vote to give I had to choose Awesome. If I had a second choice it would have went to the Quickdraw, and a third to the Catapult.

While at least some have said rescaling the Awesome is a foregone conclusion, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if somehow it didn't make the cut.

I'm a bit disapointed the Trebuchet and the Kintaro didn't make the list. To be honest they need help vastly more than the Kit Fox or Nova ever did. Yes, yes, they're big. But clan tech has such overwhelming advantages they're still workable.

The pixel profile chart can be very misleading. The size of arms and legs generally don't mean nearly as much for larger mechs as their torso and skews the results. By the chart the Awesome actually looks better or comparable to its contemporaries, but that is very wrong.

Don't judge based off a bar graph alone.

[Bloodweaver]

Fleeb the Mad, on 12 July 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

I'm a bit disapointed the Trebuchet and the Kintaro didn't make the list. To be honest they need help vastly more than the Kit Fox or Nova ever did. Yes, yes, they're big. But clan tech has such overwhelming advantages they're still workable.

Eh, no... The Nova is easily the most oversized 'Mech in the game. Now, I do agree the Trebuchet needs more help than both the Centurion and the Kit Fox, each of which made the first cut. And the Kintaro is about equally oversized (in terms of volume purely, not necessarily game performance) as both of those two. But the Nova beats all.

As for Clan tech advantage, I'm frustrated by how many people still refer to this in balance discussions. Clan tech is not all that great compared to IS tech. We even had an event that showed this. The Tukayyid event was heavily tilted in the Clans' favor, due to the invasion vs. counter-invasion game-mode mechanics. Even then, the Clans only won by a smidgen. So their tech isn't all that. More range, higher damage, sure... At the expense of both heat and longer bursts/burn times, which both make the weapons themselves more inaccurate, and expose the firing 'Mech to more return fire in the process. TBH Clan and IS tech are fairly balanced.

[Vanguard836]

Centurion could really use a scale down to match it's original concept and the TRO drawings as well. Just my 2 cents.

Edited by Vanguard836, 12 July 2015 - 09:13 PM.

[Bloodweaver]

Vanguard836, on 12 July 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

Centurion could really use a scale down to match it's original concept and the TRO drawings as well. Just my 2 cents.

So long as the "scale" being "downed" is purely lateral... I'd be totally on board with that! The height is fine, just shrink it sideways, as in Koniving's oft-quoted post, and you're golden... Not only does it look better, it plays better as well. TBH there's a lot of 'Mechs that would greatly benefit from simply being brought more into line with their concept arts...

EDIT: And I voted for the Centurion in this poll. I do believe the Nova and Quickdraw need a "pure" rescale shrinkage far more, and both the Awesome and Trebuchet need a purely lateral shrinkage more than the Cent. But the Trebuchet never made it to this round (ugh, thanks a lot, Shadowhawk voters) and the Awesome is in a clear lead anyway. So in reality my vote is more between the Cent and the Kit Fox. I'd prefer to see the Cent shrunk first (so long as it was lateral-only)

Edited by Bloodweaver, 12 July 2015 - 09:38 PM.

[Hawk819]

To Be honest about this: I believe they should get re-scaled and the Geometry fixed on each `Mech in the game.

[Blessednight]

Tarogato, on 10 July 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

Pixels is a quantifiable quality that actually matters. When you're shooting a mech, what matters is how many pixels it takes up on your screen. Obviously it's not as simple as that, as things like height, ratio of arms to torsos to legs, hardpoints... that all matters, but on the fundamental level, it comes down to screen real estate - how much mech you have available to shoot at.

Volume is slightly more problematic. Some mechs like the Blackjack and Stormcrow have some very thin spots. They take up a lot of space on your screen, but they're volumetrically less significant. Mechs like the Awesome are barndoors, but they don't have very much depth too them. A volumetric analysis of the Awesome might not be the best metric for comparison with other mechs of its class because the fact of the matter is that it's wide as a barn and takes up a lot of space on your screen.

The pixel count chart above adds together and averages the pixel counts of mech profiles both from the front and from the side. Not the best solution, as perhaps front should be weighted higher than side, but consider how the King Crab is only as large as it is because it is huge from a side-on profile (or top down), and not all that large from the front.

Why not compute the volume of the hit boxes? End of that day that's what determines the actual size of the mechs. And the hit boxes are just simple polygons around the models.

[Juodas Varnas]

#VoteCenturion2015

A candidate you can believe in!

[Tarogato]

Blessednight, on 12 July 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

Why not compute the volume of the hit boxes? End of that day that's what determines the actual size of the mechs. And the hit boxes are just simple polygons around the models.

I'll just forward you to this post:

Tennex, on 10 July 2015 - 05:05 PM, said:

I mean if you are willing to provide the volume of these mechs. i'd be glad to plot them. Trust me, a lot of ppl have tried. Geometry overlap, and there are lots of holes in the mech spaces.

WM Quicksilver, on 01 July 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

Volume isn't your solution because of profiles, best example would be the Victor vs Awesome which both probably have similar volumes, but one has much better profile because of how the volume is stretched. Surface Area may be better, but again, that doesn't necessarily mean it is the best way because much like volume, some areas are more equal than others.

That said, there is a problem in trying to test volume cubic parameters as the models are now, I "exploded" the Nova's torso in Wings to show you something that is problematic, both because you would need to close ALL pieces like this to get a good estimate, and because you would have overlapping volumes, leading to higher numbers than what it should be.

Polycount isn't too relevant to any of this you can have something with 4 polys be bigger than anything ever.

But its a pretty good chart. The trend matches the mechs already made by PGI, all the 55ton mechs are outliers as expected, plus it matches the votes ppl selected as outliers in part 1.

Also,... what are hitboxes, really? Are they even in the game client, or are they stored server side? Are they included in the model parts and extractable? I've never seen anybody actually be able to pull the hitboxes themselves out of the game data. I'm sure if it were possible, it might have been done by now.

Edited by Tarogato, 12 July 2015 - 10:35 PM.