318 replies to this topic

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Lily from animove, on 13 July 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

a bit nonsens,e because any not balanced old stuff is dead stuff, which basically is removing an old feature, or "letting it die". Many players in MWO like specific mechs, its what motivats them to play the game. if their beloved mehc dies, they go away too.

So yes making some fixes and some new stuff is fine, yet these polls for balance are not good, because they imply that everyone polling has a specific amount of expertise, whihc is unfortunately not true. Most are rather casual palyers and do neihter corretly know the issues of the mechs, not their strenght or weaknesses to abuse them on opponents.

Those mechs they want to be rescaled, are not the mechs that need the rescale, further given what many people suggets for the Nova as "rescales" I can guarantee you they will curse the mech (and PGI) after the rescale even more.

Not balanced stuff is dead? hardly. I occupy the majority of my time playing lower tier mechs and making them work. I hate playing the meta mechs in fact, i find them to be boring and their always up first to the nerfing block.

More to the point, even if you consider an under-powered mechs "as good as removed from the game" the people who loved those mechs, and who couldn't stand to pilot a weaker chassis, surely will have been gone a long time by now. I don't think a simple re-scaling is going to bring them all back.

As I said earlier, this is not in-house expert balancing, I know this, PGI knows this. It's a popularity contest. They are trying to please the largest amount of players that they can by re-scaling 5 mechs. It's not dumb, it's pragmatic, albeit frustrating for people with the less popular tastes and opinions.

I don't think I'm going to curse PGI for shrinking my Nova. It shrinks my hitboxes and i can use JJs if i need to make up for being shorter (though hopefully most of the shrinkage will be sideways).

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 13 July 2015 - 11:24 AM.

[Davy J0nes]

The Treb will rain fire down on all whole didnt vote for it, especially all who voted for the shadowhawk!

[Fleeb the Mad]

Bloodweaver, on 12 July 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

Eh, no... The Nova is easily the most oversized 'Mech in the game. Now, I do agree the Trebuchet needs more help than both the Centurion and the Kit Fox, each of which made the first cut. And the Kintaro is about equally oversized (in terms of volume purely, not necessarily game performance) as both of those two. But the Nova beats all.

As for Clan tech advantage, I'm frustrated by how many people still refer to this in balance discussions. Clan tech is not all that great compared to IS tech. We even had an event that showed this. The Tukayyid event was heavily tilted in the Clans' favor, due to the invasion vs. counter-invasion game-mode mechanics. Even then, the Clans only won by a smidgen. So their tech isn't all that. More range, higher damage, sure... At the expense of both heat and longer bursts/burn times, which both make the weapons themselves more inaccurate, and expose the firing 'Mech to more return fire in the process. TBH Clan and IS tech are fairly balanced.

I stand by what I said. Despite their size the Kit Fox and the Nova don't need as much help. The Kit Fox in particular sporting its ECM makes it vastly more survivable than any scaling changes would. It is too big and too slow for people who try and play it like an IS light, though that's not going to change. Most particularly Novas and Kit Foxes are common. Whatever their problems are it's not enough to keep them off the field.

The mechs that desperately need help but didn't get votes do so are phantoms, quietly haunting the hangar bays because there's not enough people playing or even seeing them to give them a voice.

As for Tukayyid, I played both sides. Keep in mind the IS had a 10 ton advantage on the drop deck that's since been rolled back. Also keep in mind that the results on their face don't mean very much to Clan v IS balance because team makeup is vastly more important than mechs. IS PUGS were in general better than the ones I was in on the Clan side, but that didn't stop organized units from utterly steamrolling no matter what.

[totgeboren]

I reeeally don't like that we only got one vote each. Now I had to think like thus;
"hmmm... mech X will likely be in one of the top spot anyway, so I'll vote for mech Y so that it hopefully gets into the top 5".

Dunno, I didn't vote for the mech I think is the most off-scale, I voted for a mech I hope will get rescaled, which in my view isn't really what this should be about.

[1453 R]

Stop voting for the Centurion. Do it now. If the Quickdraw somehow doesn't get a rework out of this pass, DESPITE BEING BIGGER THAN MANY ASSAULT 'MECHS, then frankly this game's playerbase deserves to never have a voice in matters such as this again.

I mean it. The Cent is moderately inconvenienced by being somewhat larger than it might should be, but it still does just fine. The Quickdraw is crippled by being almost as vastly oversized for its weight/roll as the Nova is; each of the stupid thing's legs is bigger than a Commando. Do not permit the QKD to be bumped off the 'fix this crap NOW' list because people's pet Centurions are butthurt they're not the kings of medium 'Mechs anymore. The Cent's issues have nothing to do with its size; the QKD's issues have everything to do with its size.

Stop it.

[Spleenslitta]

bad arcade kitty, on 13 July 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

>the kit fox does not have a scale problem

lolwhat
compare its size to the size of spider of the same weight

The Cute Fox has some serious scaling problems when you put those 2 mechs alongside each other.
Some say the clan endo steel is responsible for this but they're talking out their &%#¤.

For those that say the Centurion, Trebuchet etc has bigger scaling problems i'd say this -
Those mechs will probably be dealt with next time the dev's do this kinda rescaling thingie.

As for those that say clan mechs shouldn't be in the poll since IS mechs have been waiting for it for 2 years i'd say this -
Clanners had to wait for 2 years to even see one of their mechs. So we're about even there.
To tell the truth i concider myself more of a Kurita loyalist than a clanner, but the unit i ended up in are clanners.

So i'm as close to neutral as you can get. Oh well.

[Alienized]

to quote some people over and over...

KIT FOX AND ADDER GOT NO SCALE PROBLEM; THEY HAVE A STANCE PROBLEM
THEIR LEGS NEED TO BE REDONE NOT THE MECH.
(this was written in TREBUCHET! MS)

holy cow......

as passionate quickdraw driver i know the problems with it too well.... the HSR made the CT even more vulnerable.
i can not understand why so many vote for the catapult which DOESNT EVEN REACH THE QUICKDRAWS SHOULDER.
you cant even stand back in the QKD and lob some missilespammage above everything.
it has to be face to face which makes it alot worse than any catapult will ever be.

[Spleenslitta]

Alienized, on 13 July 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

to quote some people over and over...

KIT FOX AND ADDER GOT NO SCALE PROBLEM; THEY HAVE A STANCE PROBLEM
THEIR LEGS NEED TO BE REDONE NOT THE MECH.
(this was written in TREBUCHET! MS)

holy cow......

as passionate quickdraw driver i know the problems with it too well.... the HSR made the CT even more vulnerable.
i can not understand why so many vote for the catapult which DOESNT EVEN REACH THE QUICKDRAWS SHOULDER.
you cant even stand back in the QKD and lob some missilespammage above everything.
it has to be face to face which makes it alot worse than any catapult will ever be.

Cute Fox and Adder have a scaling problem whether you think so or not. Just like the Quickdraw has a scaling problem they do too.
I don't care how big letters you use to say your opinion. I just plain and simply don't care.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

To quote some other people over and over...

THE KITFOX AND ADDER DO HAVE A SCALE PROBLEM; FIXING THE LEGS WOULD BE COOL BUT IS PGI GONNA DO THAT? NO, LETS BE HONEST THEY WON'T

I understand the frustration of cent fans, but don't let them trick you out of your vote for the Kitfox if you feel it deserves to be shrunken. A leg fix is an ideal solution that won't happen, a re-scale on the other hand is perfectly possible and is right here in front of your nose Kitfox pilots.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 13 July 2015 - 02:06 PM.

[Trev Firestorm]

Spleenslitta, on 13 July 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

Cute Fox and Adder have a scaling problem whether you think so or not. Just like the Quickdraw has a scaling problem they do too.
I don't care how big letters you use to say your opinion. I just plain and simply don't care.

Agreed, but not top 5 unless done together which isn't how this poll is setup.

1453 R, on 13 July 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

Stop voting for the Centurion. Do it now. If the Quickdraw somehow doesn't get a rework out of this pass, DESPITE BEING BIGGER THAN MANY ASSAULT 'MECHS, then frankly this game's playerbase deserves to never have a voice in matters such as this again.

I mean it. The Cent is moderately inconvenienced by being somewhat larger than it might should be, but it still does just fine. The Quickdraw is crippled by being almost as vastly oversized for its weight/roll as the Nova is; each of the stupid thing's legs is bigger than a Commando. Do not permit the QKD to be bumped off the 'fix this crap NOW' list because people's pet Centurions are butthurt they're not the kings of medium 'Mechs anymore. The Cent's issues have nothing to do with its size; the QKD's issues have everything to do with its size.

Stop it.

Tell that to the kitfox crowd instead. Centurion has been asking for a resize since day 1 (as had the treb but some ppl screwed that up here).

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 13 July 2015 - 02:32 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Trev Firestorm, on 13 July 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

Agreed, but not top 5 unless done together which isn't how this poll is setup.

So if we can't have both we shouldn't get either? is it that immersion shattering that they are different sizes?

[Uncle Totty]

Lily from animove, on 13 July 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

because it has ****** hitboxes and is one of the easiest mech to destroy. top 3 worst CT with the Nova and dragon

Strange because its rather similar shaped as the Stalker, but the way how PGI distribted CT and ST's makes the catapult the easy pick while the stalker is a pain in the ass to take out. and thta does not come form the stalkers higher Hitpoints. Its simply the way how you spread damage with a stalker easily, while the cata has hardly a chance to properly spread anything.

Proof that the only "rescaling" the Cat needs is a slimmer CT hit box. (STOP VOTING FOR IT!)

[Zordicron]

There is nothing wrong with the Adder, never was, you fools all play it wrong and then cry.
I would say the same for cute fox, but I think it actually does have some mild size issues, especially if you mount triple AMS on the one arm.

You freeking idiots voting for Centurions, WTF is in your head? I am completely baffled the Trebuchet got left out in the first place over somthing like a shadowhawk, OR a centurion, but to see the Cent beating out numerous other much more worthy mechs? STUPID.

Best part is with the cent, all you tards voting for it will prolly win, and then we will see a new scale for it, and then the hitboxes will get borked and the thing will be smaller, but then half as durable instead. The Cent already plays like it has 65 ton mech armor, you ******* apparently that isn't good enough.

Awesome
Trebuchet
Quickdraw

One of those somehow got left behind due to COMPLETE IDIOCY.

Honorable mention to Cutefox, and something to fix the CT of a catapult, be it scale or hitbox or some combination.

You idiots with the Shawk and Centurion make baby mechajesus cry.

Edited by Eldagore, 13 July 2015 - 04:25 PM.

[Zordicron]

Nathan K, on 13 July 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Proof that the only "rescaling" the Cat needs is a slimmer CT hit box. (STOP VOTING FOR IT!)

Making the CT shed dmg to the ST like a stalker means it would not support the XL engine that is part of 100% of every loadout for it ever since beta(except the short stint when we put AC40 in it because we didnt have Jagers yet). So, no, it isn't so easy as "copy the Stalker" because "lolXLstalker" means it would be "lolXLcatapult" which also means it loses about ten tons of weapon space to move at the same speed it does now.

That said, the rescaling it needs is a fraction of what we need done to other mechs on the vote list, and at least one that isnt even on the list(Treb). So yeah, it should not get votes at this time, or at best should end up in rank 5.

[Ozzy Stormlight]

well at least the awesome is still getting the much needed attention it deserves.

KEEP VOTING AWESOME!!!

THANK YOU..... that is all

[Uncle Totty]

Eldagore, on 13 July 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

Making the CT shed dmg to the ST like a stalker means it would not support the XL engine that is part of 100% of every loadout for it ever since beta(except the short stint when we put AC40 in it because we didnt have Jagers yet). So, no, it isn't so easy as "copy the Stalker" because "lolXLstalker" means it would be "lolXLcatapult" which also means it loses about ten tons of weapon space to move at the same speed it does now.

That said, the rescaling it needs is a fraction of what we need done to other mechs on the vote list, and at least one that isnt even on the list(Treb). So yeah, it should not get votes at this time, or at best should end up in rank 5.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a2937e85187dc0f

[TELEFORCE]

Tennex, on 10 July 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

Something to keep in mind while making these votes

After looking at this, I don't think the Kit Fox needs to be rescaled after all. Sure, it might be wide, but it's as short as a Spider. Sure, the 'mech is as slow as a medium, but it can pack a bigger punch than other light 'mechs.

Edited by TELEFORCE, 13 July 2015 - 05:28 PM.

[Cementi]

DivineEvil, on 10 July 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

I've expected at least 3 votes given to me so that I wouldn't have to struggle over which of these are "the one". Kinda disappointed. All these poles, and now I see a mech in top, which I don't even played once, with little to no attention to other offenders. It would've made more sence with the initial per-class polls, but here we go again.

Why do PGI always has to do things in reverse methodology?

Screw it, still going with Catapults...

This is not about voting for your favorite. This is voting for what you think needs it most. If I went favorite it would be the Shadowhawk. It is hugely oversized but its a solid mech as is and can wait. I went with the Quickdraw, you do not see alot of them and as much as I like mine it does not see alot of play time because it is very easy to hit.

Same goes for the Nova.....sorry I admit it really needs a rescale but I do quite well in it.

[bad arcade kitty]

TELEFORCE, on 13 July 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

After looking at this, I don't think the Kit Fox needs to be rescaled after all. Sure, it might be wide, but it's as short as a Spider. Sure, the 'mech is as slow as a medium, but it can pack a bigger punch than other light 'mechs.

compare them in the mechbay, you will clearly see the difference

and look at the pic more accurately, kit fox's bar on the histogram is 3 times taller than spider's

[Wildstreak]

Greenjulius, on 13 July 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

worse than the similarly Shaq-tall Shadowhawk
while the Hunchback and Enforcer are about right.

Sorry, chart is STILL wrong.

The Shadow Hawk is not 'Shaq-tall' it is shorter than the Hopper.
The Hunchback got fattened up a bit, like the Centurion it does not suffer much from this just the Hunch got done wrong though fixed on one variant, it should be fixed on others.

The whole chart is off, done wrong and is misleading.

Alienized, on 13 July 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

i like to throw in that the stalker is the one at the wrong size here. it needs to be rescaled. made bigger. apart from that the catapult was a pure lrm mech (hence the massive ears), the stalker always carried few lrms with srms added thats why it never needed such big ears.

No, the Stalker is closer to what it should be than the Catapult that needs a width fix including in the legs instead of being filled with helium for a Macy's Day Parade float.

xe N on, on 13 July 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

The Nova is quite short in fact. The Cent is much taller then the Nova, same goes for e.g. Enforcer and the Trebuchet, which are both 50 ton mechs.

Actually the Nova is the near the same height as IS 50 tonners, it should be shorter while keeping the width.

TexAce, on 13 July 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

Clan mechs shouldnt be in this polls at all. They dont deserve to be in there. IS pilots are waiting 2 FRIKING YEARS LONGER to get their mechs rescaled and now some stupid clanners think they deserve the same treamtment at the same time. No way.

Clan Mechs can be in, the big question is do Clan Mechs need rescaling or just a leg adjustment?

bad arcade kitty, on 13 July 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

>the kit fox does not have a scale problem

lolwhat
compare its size to the size of spider of the same weight

Fox and Spider do NOT need be the same size.

Let's remember the Fox has the advantages of being able to change its Omnipods thus weapons on any variant making it flexible and better to maximize what it carries compared to Spider and UrbanMech plus the Fox has the Magic Jesus Box that it can carry on every variant while the Spider is limited to 1 and the Urbie to 0.