318 replies to this topic

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Not gonna lie I'm worried about resizing the nova. It seems like it's what people want, but I bet they'll just shrink everything proportionally and this knuckle dragger will be shooting from even closer to the ground. Just trim some fat off the hands and skinny it up, please no shorter than it already is.

[Twilight Fenrir]

I dislike how this tiered system was set up... Rather than forcibly choosing 3 from each weight class, it would have been nice if they just picked the top 12 from the oroginal poll... The biggest offenders of scale are almost all medium mechs. The Awesome needs some love, but the Victor, and the Stalker? Not as much. How did the Raven wind up on this list? O.o

Those three slots would have better been served on the other medium mechs like the Trebuchet, IMO.

Still, at least they're fixing SOME of the mechs, and the current top 5 are a good place to start, though I'd personally rather see the Centurion get love over thr Kitfox. But, I'm biased, as I don't own a Kitfox...

[EGG]

Sjorpha, on 14 July 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

Those graphs seem to support what I've been saying all along, the grasshopper isn't actually oversized. People are just obsessed with height and don't look at the actual size and volume of the model.

The height of the mech is what makes the Grasshopper a target. People see it and prioritize it over smaller mechs.

[Trev Firestorm]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 13 July 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

So if we can't have both we shouldn't get either? is it that immersion shattering that they are different sizes?

More like unless we get both together (and thus 6 this pass) the Centurion has priority both because its been in longer and because the kitfox isn't as badly off as the cent.

[Lily from animove]

Rushmoar, on 14 July 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

Pixels are a bad representation of volume in general. What would have more pixels, mapping a sheet of paper or a tennis ball? Which one would have more volume? it's really based on design of the object only. But the chart gives a base to start with so I like it for that reason.

since this chart is said to measure the pixels of the silhouette, this does not care. A donut may have more surface and pixels than a disk without this hole, yet from any angle seen, it will be less of a taget area by having a hole.

[Spleenslitta]

Regardless of what the endresults become i hope dev's take a lesson from this and set up some kind of standard chart for how big a mech can be per tonn.
There should of course be some weird stuff around such as the Hunchbacks hump and such.
But the overall size of a mech is what counts.

Just so that when they make new mechs they don't have to fiddle with their scale at a later date.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Trev Firestorm, on 14 July 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

More like unless we get both together (and thus 6 this pass) the Centurion has priority both because its been in longer and because the kitfox isn't as badly off as the cent.

Hmmm... Nope the cent does not get priority, it doesn't matter if it's been in the game longer aaaaaand the Kitfox is NOT better off than the Cent. I dunno what you're smoking friend.

[Felbombling]

This was a fairly weird process. If a Mech is really unpopular because it is oversized, people wouldn't have purchased it and thus would not have a stake in it being resized. My natural inclination was to choose something I own from the list in hopes of getting a little advantage out of this project, but common sense took over and I voted for the Awesome, a Mech we all know has been living behind the eight ball for the entire time it has been in game.

Having said that, a Mech or two I expected to be in this final vote did not make it... perhaps because not enough people had a stake in their improvement, based on the very first point I made in this post. Hmmm...

[Alienized]

you wanna know whats really sad about this?

that in all these KIT FOX NEEDS IT MOAR! NOOO THE CENTURION! NOO THE NOVA!!! .
the mech that needs it the most after the awesome propably drops out of the top 5.
the quickdraw.

if people are really that awkward in making neutral decisions then i doubt that this game has any future because its proven that the community is too biased in their own small world.

[Inflatable Fish]

bad arcade kitty, on 14 July 2015 - 02:33 AM, said:

see the graph above

compare the green circle to the orange one

who is biased now?

you seem to forget mechs have more than one dimension.

[Wronka]

We need more votes for the Centurion... it is far more deserving of a re-scale then the kit fox!

[HighTest]

My vote is for the Centurion. So should everyone else.

Sure, there are plenty of mechs that need to be resized (quite desperately, indeed -- like the Catapult and Awesome), but despite it's fantastic design, the Centurion truly is an abomination of size. Sure, the pixel count may not be as high as some of the others, but in sheer stature alone (height and girth), it visually dwarfs most Heavy mechs, forget about mediums. Sure, it has some 'hollow' areas, but the fact is that from a distance in the battlefield, there's still an awful lot of mech to shoot at.

My CAD$0.02. (sadly only about USD$0.0156 these days...)

edit: typo

Edited by HighTest, 14 July 2015 - 09:48 AM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Alienized, on 14 July 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

you wanna know whats really sad about this?

that in all these KIT FOX NEEDS IT MOAR! NOOO THE CENTURION! NOO THE NOVA!!! .
the mech that needs it the most after the awesome propably drops out of the top 5.
the quickdraw.

if people are really that awkward in making neutral decisions then i doubt that this game has any future because its proven that the community is too biased in their own small world.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but i don't believe the quickdraw ever dropped out of the top 5. It should be fine dude.

Wronka, on 14 July 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

We need more votes for the Centurion... it is far more deserving of a re-scale then the kit fox!

Lies! I challenge you to fisticuffs! >:V

[Jack Shayu Walker]

HighTest, on 14 July 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

My vote is for the Centurion. So should everyone else.

Sure, there are plenty of mechs that need to be resized (quite desperately, indeed -- like the Catapult and Awesome), but despite it's fantastic design, the Centurion truly is an abomination of size. Sure, the pixel count may not be as high as some of the others, but in sheer stature alone (height and girth), it visually dwarfs most Heavy mechs, forget about mediums. Sure, it has some 'hollow' areas, but the fact is that from a distance in the battlefield, there's still an awful lot of mech to shoot at.

My CAD$0.02. (sadly only about USD$0.0156 these days...)

edit: typo

The Cent is actually a good mech though, it preforms well in higher elos wheras the majority of the current top 5 don't unless they have REALLY good pilots.

[Alienized]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 14 July 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but i don't believe the quickdraw ever dropped out of the top 5. It should be fine dude.

did you follow the percentages? kit fox already climbed up to the QKD. its 5th when kti fox passes it.
and with all those damn idiots battling kitfox or centurion even the cent will pass it before voting is over.

im damn ashamed about it.

[HighTest]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 14 July 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

The Cent is actually a good mech though, it preforms well in higher elos wheras the majority of the current top 5 don't unless they have REALLY good pilots.

True. But the problem with some of the other mechs listed here isn't the size as much as it is hitboxes and/or hardpoint layouts. For example:

Making the Awesome smaller will make it a little harder to hit. Which is good. But the fact that the game doesn't have true 2.0x heat sinks and because of ghost heat will mean that the Awesome will still suck in it's preferred role as a PPC boat. It simply can't maintain any level of sustained fire when an enemy closes. And with it's limited hardpoint options (being mostly energy, and zero ballistics) it will always be inferior to other mechs regardless of it's size. Unless perhaps you make it the size of a Spider.

Making the Catapult smaller will also make it a little harder to hit. Yet with the hitbox layout and design, enemies will still always hit the missile pods (primary weapons) and/or the CT. It doesn't matter how small you are when you either have no weapons or are cored out. This mech needs to have its side torso hitboxes adjusted before all else, imho.

While I agree that a number of the mechs listed in the Top 12 are indeed veritably gimped, I don't agree that changing their sizes will make them any more competitive. They have much bigger problems that need to be addressed.

My concern is that at least some of the top 12 got in simply because they're awful mechs, and NOT because they truly warranted a scaling adjustment...

I own the majority of these mechs, and have played many of them extensively since as early as beta. And the Cent is really the main one in the list, in my mind, that is disadvantaged primarily by it's size. (Not saying it's a bad mech by any stretch, but that size IS a legitimate issue for it.) Many of these other mechs suck primarily for other reasons, but size is also a smaller factor.

To round out the Top 5 from the list given, I would actually still pick the Awesome. Catapult, Nova and Shadow Hawk for size adjustments -- purely based on size. But the Awesome or Catapult won't suck any less.


TL;DR: Changing the size of many of these mechs won't make them suck any less. They'll just look less ridiculous but still suck. Don't think that scaling these mechs will make them any more competitive.

edit: tl;dr added

Edited by HighTest, 14 July 2015 - 10:18 AM.

[jlawsl]

Has anyone ever thought that beside calling the developers idiots every time they don't get a participation award/cookie, that they should look to the bigger picture? Could it be possible that these will simply be the first 5 mechs to be resized? And the runners up will be done in the order of votes they received? Nah, couldn't happen. They are gonna be like-well we did 5, we quit.

Nothing is more depressing then mostly grown men crying about what they are entitled to...4 more votes on 12 friggin mechs. Be happy we got one.

[HighTest]

jlawsl, on 14 July 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

Has anyone ever thought that beside calling the developers idiots every time they don't get a participation award/cookie, that they should look to the bigger picture? Could it be possible that these will simply be the first 5 mechs to be resized? And the runners up will be done in the order of votes they received? Nah, couldn't happen. They are gonna be like-well we did 5, we quit.

Nothing is more depressing then mostly grown men crying about what they are entitled to...4 more votes on 12 friggin mechs. Be happy we got one.

Agreed. I think this whole endeavor somehow devolved into a huge discussion as to which mech needed the 'size buff' more than the next one.

I'm pretty confident that the devs were more interested in aesthetics than actual gameplay balance. If you listen to the original town hall that started all this, there is no context at all for this being an exercise in chassis balancing.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Alienized, on 14 July 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

did you follow the percentages? kit fox already climbed up to the QKD. its 5th when kti fox passes it.
and with all those damn idiots battling kitfox or centurion even the cent will pass it before voting is over.

im damn ashamed about it.

I don't think the cent is going to overtake the quickdraw. If it starts to happen ill change my vote to keep the quickdraw afloat.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

HighTest, on 14 July 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

True. But the problem with some of the other mechs listed here isn't the size as much as it is hitboxes and/or hardpoint layouts. For example:

Making the Awesome smaller will make it a little harder to hit. Which is good. But the fact that the game doesn't have true 2.0x heat sinks and because of ghost heat will mean that the Awesome will still suck in it's preferred role as a PPC boat. It simply can't maintain any level of sustained fire when an enemy closes. And with it's limited hardpoint options (being mostly energy, and zero ballistics) it will always be inferior to other mechs regardless of it's size. Unless perhaps you make it the size of a Spider.

Making the Catapult smaller will also make it a little harder to hit. Yet with the hitbox layout and design, enemies will still always hit the missile pods (primary weapons) and/or the CT. It doesn't matter how small you are when you either have no weapons or are cored out. This mech needs to have its side torso hitboxes adjusted before all else, imho.

While I agree that a number of the mechs listed in the Top 12 are indeed veritably gimped, I don't agree that changing their sizes will make them any more competitive. They have much bigger problems that need to be addressed.

My concern is that at least some of the top 12 got in simply because they're awful mechs, and NOT because they truly warranted a scaling adjustment...

I own the majority of these mechs, and have played many of them extensively since as early as beta. And the Cent is really the main one in the list, in my mind, that is disadvantaged primarily by it's size. (Not saying it's a bad mech by any stretch, but that size IS a legitimate issue for it.) Many of these other mechs suck primarily for other reasons, but size is also a smaller factor.

To round out the Top 5 from the list given, I would actually still pick the Awesome. Catapult, Nova and Shadow Hawk for size adjustments -- purely based on size. But the Awesome or Catapult won't suck any less.


TL;DR: Changing the size of many of these mechs won't make them suck any less. They'll just look less ridiculous but still suck. Don't think that scaling these mechs will make them any more competitive.

edit: tl;dr added

I think the Kitfox will both look better and preform better if it's smaller. But that's just my opinion.