318 replies to this topic

[SecretMantis]

Seriously....why didn't the trebuchet make it to round two? I understand it's not a popular mech. But, one of the reasons it's unpopular is because it's scaling is so bad!

[Trev Firestorm]

Alienized, on 14 July 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

you wanna know whats really sad about this?

that in all these KIT FOX NEEDS IT MOAR! NOOO THE CENTURION! NOO THE NOVA!!! .
the mech that needs it the most after the awesome propably drops out of the top 5.
the quickdraw.

if people are really that awkward in making neutral decisions then i doubt that this game has any future because its proven that the community is too biased in their own small world.

The problem is the 1 vote restriction, I would vote quickdraw awesome nova centurion catapult but with only 1 vote I had to give it to the cent to try edging out the kitfox (when I placed the vote it was closer than it is now)

[Herr Vorragend]

Argh, the trebuchet and the dragon would have needed the rescale. Can't understand the cent/shd voters

Those unpopular mechs are unpopular because of their scale.

Edited by Herr Vorragend, 14 July 2015 - 02:03 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

Alienized, on 14 July 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

did you follow the percentages? kit fox already climbed up to the QKD. its 5th when kti fox passes it.
and with all those damn idiots battling kitfox or centurion even the cent will pass it before voting is over.

im damn ashamed about it.

kfx is like 40% larger than jenner
it deserves some love

i don't understand those who vote centurion which is already a pretty well scaled and often used mech

[Davy J0nes]

I love the Treb don't mind the height just how wide it is, its arms just fall off, since they stick out so much It is very skinny on its side running along though so that helps.

But I find because its so wide srms will do more spread damage even with Artemis,

And treb models like the 5j for example what has the most energy hard points for the trebs was given great quirks to go along with the energy hard points but because of how weak them arms are sticking out like that you will find it very hard to even make use of the quirks given. As your only option to protect your double-door torso is to attempt to use them arms to protect it they quickly fall off losing your firepower with them. So you are given two options die or be useless to your team pick.

( 7k at least can use shield arms since its main weapons are not in the arms prob why people love it so much )

It is simply once again way to wide. And seeing the shadowhawk making it this far over the treb just doesn't make sense the thing is shinny enough as it is surely no? or is it the height people have a problem with? would the height not be useful for that shoulder mounted weapons platform?

Someone anyone explain please

Anyway wont bring up the treb again, but hoping its day will come some day...please?

Even still wont stop playing them but all shadowhawk pilots should know I will be gunning for you! so watch out ha.

[Vaktor]

Centurion!!

as someone has been around MWO since day 1! and has stuck with it this whole time! I have been waiting for so long for them to fix it! the day has come! please don't let it slip by! Make it like Alex designed it!

[Exmortis]

I love all the moaning and complaining about the Shadowhawk, when in fact it's 5 billion feet tall and commands all of the damage to be focused on it when amongst its lance peers. Try piloting one and see if everyone isn't attempting to exclusively turn you into scrap while your lance runs around unmolested.

Fanto's post,

Quote

Even still wont stop playing them but all shadowhawk pilots should know I will be gunning for you! so watch out ha.

is a perfect example.

[Neput Z34]

Is it possible to change title of the pole to "Top 5 (+1 possible) Mechs for rescale"?

[Kali Rinpoche]

I'm glad you are giving us the chance to pick, but only 1 selection is a bit too restrictive. Had to go Awesome even though Quickdraw needs it the most. Its got 3 urban mechs for torsos.

[Taffer]

Can only pick one eh? Had to go Awesome, even though I'd love Cent to get it, Awesome needs it more.

Edited by Taffer, 14 July 2015 - 05:11 PM.

[Gattsus]

Tennex, on 10 July 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

Something to keep in mind while making these votes. The Nova is almost twice the size it should be

I agree this is an ok first approximation as an academic exercise BUT it's extremely bad as a reference for voting. It doesn't discriminate between WIDE and HEIGHT, which is rather disappointing and calls for biased voting.

Neput Z34, on 14 July 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Is it possible to change title of the pole to "Top 5 (+1 possible) Mechs for rescale"?

2 per class would have been ideal, but it's a start.

Edited by Gattsus, 14 July 2015 - 05:22 PM.

[Kassatsu]

Pretty obvious this is just a popularity contest for some of these. I'm not even mad the Adder has so few votes - It's actually not nearly as bad as some of the others (okay I lied, it's actually way too large and square, but others STILL need it more - At least the Adder can pack a UAC20 and 4 ER small lasers).

Raven? I have never had trouble piloting one, or shooting one and never found its size to be "off" in any way. At all. I have no idea why this one made it here over the Spider or Firestarter.

Kit Fox? Bit too big and square.

Centurion? Yeah, no. They're actually in a pretty good place (which is hard to believe, I know) for once. No one plays them because they're just not as good as they should be (limited loadouts, easy to take out gun arm... Why play a centurion when you can grab a shadowhawk or stormcrow and do the same things only better, faster, with more HP and better mobility?).

Shadowhawk? No idea why it even made it this far. I'm fairly certain there are other mediums that have worse scaling issues than the Shadowhawk (which, despite being fairly tall, doesn't seem to have any real size issues). Which brings me to my next one...

Nova? Really? The whole point is that it can put out some ridiculous DPS if left unchecked, but much like the DRG-1N and WVR-6R, that DPS is fragile as hell. I can very easily twist to direct damage to whichever side torso has more HP and just... No.

Trebuchet should have made it here over literally any of the mediums in this list.

Quickdraw? It's literally a lighter Awesome... See below.

Grasshopper? Other than possibly being too tall, nothing really wrong with it.


Catapult isn't so much a scaling issue as it is MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO THE ARMS... And this is not a redesign poll. It's a re-scaling poll. Catapults aren't brawlers, nor are they meant to be able to tank damage as well as other heavies. It's almost like they were designed for a reason, to fulfill a specific task in a teamplay oriented game... What's that word again? Your part? Muse? Something theatrical I think...

Awesome has needed a rework since forever. Not sure what you can do while still keeping its look relatively intact, but if a complete redesign is in fact what's needed (or just totally changing the proportions), then why not?

At least it's just which ones they'll do FIRST, and not necessarily which ones they'll make the biggest changes to (and certainly not which ones actually need it the most). I don't suppose rescaling multiple mechs at once would fly with anyone? Wouldn't really take that much longer to do it all at once, and I'd much rather have it all implemented at the same time and done over a weekend on the test client than have one single mech re-scale a month coinciding with each new pre-order package announcement.

Also, people seemed to fail to realize that rescaling isn't simply limited to making mechs smaller because they're terrible. It should be just as necessary to rescale mechs that are "too good" as well.

Also2™, re-scaling does not mean altering the geometry in any way (though they might change the height/width of the mech, quite possibly even of individual components independently), nor does it mean changing the actual hitbox locations, which is an issue any mech that's properly scaled but takes too much damage to X or Y components is facing.

tl;dr what the hell is everyone smoking

[The Choppa]

Alistair Winter, on 11 July 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

The Kit Fox currently has more votes than the Centurion!

The KIT FOX has more votes than the CENTURION!

What the...

Y'all do realize that there is a mech coming already in the game that will renders the Kit Fox Centurion utterly irrelevant, right? Same tonnage, bigger engine, better hardpoint locations, more hardpoints and doesn't get its ECM Autocannon blow off when it loses its arm. Even if the Kit Fox Centurion wins this vote, there's absolutely zero people who will prefer the Kit Fox Centurion to the Hunchback.

In ten days today, the Arctic Cheetah Hunchback will turn the Kit Fox Centurion into a distant memory. Unless PGI shrinks the Kit Fox Centurion to the size of a thimble, this rescaling won't change that.

Fixed that for you
actually the Cent can fit a bigger engine than a Hunch, but w/e

Edited by Deathchoppa, 14 July 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Cent: Clearly way too big, but it has truly excellent hitboxes and as a result needs rescaling less than practically any other mech. With a competent cent pilot, it's harder to put one down than any other medium, not even the Stormcrow is close. This is purely a factor of game mechanics, damage transfer reduction and it's huge destroyed arm stubs.

The Cent is too big, but like the Shadowhawk it is a purely aesthetic issue.

Shadowhawk: See above. If you feel otherwise, you're both flat out wrong, and clearly have no clue what your talking about. The only "valid" reason to vote Shadowhawk is because you value aesthetics over gameplay.

Awesome: like the dragon, it's more proportion over actual size, but unlike the cent and Shadowhawk it suffers enormously due to its very wide profile. Height doesn't get you shot more, but width does, because nobody misses boxer targets. The awesome desperately needs to lose some width; be slimmed down some. The barn door front profile has meant the Awesome is still a terrible mech despite massive quirks and (by the current meta) often great hard points.

Trebuchet: this mech needs rescaling desperately, but won't get it because it was never popular (unlike the "Best Medium Mech For A Long Time" Shadowhawk), the Trebuchet was a bad mech at release and has always been bad - this is worse even than the Awesome, which at least had its heyday and has some love due to the lore. Few like the Trebuchet, and this lack of popularity is going to doom it to remaining garbage for the foreseeable future.

[Uncle Totty]

bad arcade kitty, on 14 July 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

kfx is like 40% larger than jenner
it deserves some love

i don't understand those who vote centurion which is already a pretty well scaled and often used mech

They vote for the Centurion because they want it to look more like how it does it the Concept Art.

Nothing more.

[Tennex]

Nathan K, on 14 July 2015 - 05:44 PM, said:

They vote for the Centurion because they want it to look more like how it does it the Concept Art.

Nothing more.

they're not going to remodel it lol. Its just a shrink

[Vaktor]

Tennex, on 14 July 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

they're not going to remodel it lol. Its just a shrink

its too broad right now so all they need to do is shrink it to make it more of a medium. I would also improve its zombie ability which it needs.

Edited by Vaktor, 14 July 2015 - 06:11 PM.

[fireball 4]

Lily from animove, on 13 July 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

If they just cut out the orange, and then put the sides to be were the to little lines are it would work. The back is the issue but that's part of the rescale. And may be shrunk the pelvis sideways to compensate.

Edited by fireball 4, 14 July 2015 - 07:20 PM.

[Swifty Morgan]

Fix the Scaling then FIX collisions.... how long will it take to make this actually work... if you make the mechs smaller and thus harder to hit, we damn sure want and need collisions correctly implemented in match.

[BlueSanta]

Some of these mechs need remodeled, not rescaled. Specifically, the Awesome. It should have been removed in place of the Treb.

Honestly, I hate the game that we're playing with this process. We know what mechs are broken in terms of scale and need fixed. The Stalker has always been too small, while the Catapult, Quickdraw, and Treb have always been too big.

Literally, day one, we identified these mechs as being sized incorrectly. Quit bullshitting with us and making us jump through hoops. I've done over 12,000 drops since the day before the game went open beta. I could very easily point out the mechs that are broken and that have been broken for YEARS.