160 replies to this topic

[RedDevil]

Okay wow! I just posted a 650dmg game in a stock Summoner Prime, with only basic skills unlocked (I don't own three). The very next game I posted top damage at 730 in a stock Summoner-D with only the heat quirks unlocked (My second Summoner).

These things are really agile! Both games were on the new River City map, so having all that terrain and great sniper spots for the JJ's really helped.

Edited by RedDevil, 14 July 2015 - 04:42 PM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Thx for the reminder.

I completely forget this mech existed and still have to master the chassis.

[Lightfoot]

It seems the Thor has working jump jets now. I take it all back. That was my main gripe, that you were stuck with jump-jets that really just allowed you to hover slowly to the height where everyone shot at you. Now it gets some deflection from the jump-jets and can make a fast attack and retreat over buildings and low hills. It's still not the best mech, but it's interesting now.

Edited by Lightfoot, 15 July 2015 - 02:44 PM.

[RedDevil]

Hopefully it gets BV'd like a good 50 tonner then

Edited by RedDevil, 14 July 2015 - 08:54 PM.

[Wild Kadabra]

I do very very well in a summoner with, 1UAC10, 1ERPPC, 1ASRM6. The loadout may not sound impressive, but with the cooldown quirks, combined with the weapon cooldown modules, you can deal a lot of damage real fast, and with the C arm and cooldown quirks that uac10 will very rarely jam. Also has relatively low heat, and decent pinpoint damage which allows you to blow up a mech part of your choice fairly easily. Combined with the new mobility of the summoner after the jump jet fix, you get a mech that can poptart decently, and can contribute to the team at all ranges, but is most effective under 500m. Most stuff you cannot outgun right away you can outmanuver easily. I have personally had very good results with this variant, having dealt over 900 damage in many games, tho usually average around 500-600.

I do love the ppc in the right arm, the summoner having an asymetrically placed cockpit means, you can snipe with that ppc while exposing very little of your mech around corners, which allows me to trade shots with many enemies quite effectively at long range till im in a good position to close in and bring all my weapons to bear.

Overall, the strenghts of the summoner, may not be as obvious right away as some other mechs, but if you really exploit those cooldown quirks, along with cooldown modules, and that mobility, you can get a mech that deals unexpected damage as most ppl tend to understimate it, very fast, and is able to dictate the terms of engagement most of the time.

Edited by Wild Kadabra, 14 July 2015 - 09:22 PM.

[FETTY WAP]

I have them mastered, and it was pretty easy for me.. they're very agile. I run some wonky builds, though.
1xGauss/1x PPC
3x LPL
Some kinda SRM thing..
They have nice twist and the new JJs let you fly.

[Telmasa]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 July 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

Meh. Already have enough laser vomit. Give us reasons to use some variety.

Spr1ggan, on 12 July 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

I agree, i've just been running the nova and summoner poptarts of late due to the boredom of laser vomit. It's just that in the current state of the game, that is really the only change needed to the chassis to make it more viable.

I mean i'd like a hell of a lot more variation in weapon mechanics. I'd like some TT stuff changed/thrown out. I mean why don't we have different ammo types of all these autocannons, like armour piercing rounds and HE rounds etc.

Hence why I advocate we think about sized hardpoints again...but to keep the number of hardpoints limited.

That means to *not* do it like MW:4 did it, where you could throw any number of weapons on a "single" hardpoint so long as the spare size slot was open...the silly things I did sometimes makes me shake my head now....

[Milocinia]

SMN-PRIME

Left mouse button = C-UAC20
Right mouse button = 2x C-ERML
3rd mouse button = C-SRM6

Very good with heat if you stagger your fire tactically and don't just spam everything. Works well with the omnipod quirks, is very agile, quite durable and has a decent JJ load.

Very fun mech to pilot, just like any clan mech with a balanced loadout.

[RedDevil]

Seems like you really need to mix and match the omni-pods. The Prime's damage output gets severely slashed once it runs out of ammo, and it can't sport much more than 3 tons of ammo combined. That's not enough for things like CW.

[Spr1ggan]

RedDevil, on 15 July 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

Seems like you really need to mix and match the omni-pods. The Prime's damage output gets severely slashed once it runs out of ammo, and it can't sport much more than 3 tons of ammo combined. That's not enough for things like CW.

The best builds on it in my opinion are the Gauss+CERPPC poptart and the Gauss+4 CERMLs.

[Milocinia]

It's great that you're recommending long range CW builds when we all know CW is dead.

Most of the deathmatch maps promote closer range gameplay and, dare I say it, brawling.

Gauss+CERPPC poptart? That will get ripped to shreds in the PUG queue and so will Gauss+4CERML.

Sometimes it really is the mentality of the players that needs to change, not the game.

[Telmasa]

Kyocera, on 15 July 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

It's great that you're recommending long range CW builds when we all know CW is dead.
Most of the deathmatch maps promote closer range gameplay and, dare I say it, brawling.
Gauss+CERPPC poptart? That will get ripped to shreds in the PUG queue and so will Gauss+4CERML.
Sometimes it really is the mentality of the players that needs to change, not the game.

I've made both work.

The problems for me was that the chest-mounted Gauss was, while high up, kinda hard to control cause of it's position relative to the head - probably because of all the time I've spent in the Shadowhawk, it just felt wrong to me. That spot right below the cockpit is pretty good though.

The arm-mounted weapons are more fun for corner-poking and using the JJ as opposed to hill-poking with the high mounts.

What killed the Summoner for me though, is when I tallied all the Clan 'mechs according to "free tonnage" (tonnage left over after maxing out armor, plus or minus to the nearest half ton) and ratio to the "empty tonnage" of each 'Mech.

The Summoner has one of the poorest ones...and for me, that's just not acceptable for a 70-ton 'Mech.

On top of that, its hardpoints are extremely limited in number.

And it's hard to figure out what might save it:
- I doubt that ferro/endo will become unlockable ever
- The JJs are really what gives the Summoner its unique character

So the only thing I can come up with is the advantage of huge sized hardpoints on the arms that allow it to take weapons that other 'Mechs usually cannot, and thus makes up for the limited number of said hardpoints.

Otherwise it's going to be inferior in just about every way except the "cornerpoker skirmisher", and it'll be on par there as opposed to superior.

[Joseph Mallan]

Is there a reason to keep/use a Summoner?
You are a diehard Jade Falcon.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

UAC10 + LBX2 + MG + 2x ER ML

a killer.

[Tahribator]

If all you care about is optimal 'Mechs/builds and winning, then there is no reason to keep it. ERPPC+Gauss can be competitive when the matches are long but most of the group queue matches are 2-3 minutes long so you won't be contributing much.

The only niche it has is being as responsive as a medium at 70 tons with great air time and hitboxes, but that's about it. Its damage output sucks, its weapon quirks suck, it's disarmed extremely easily . . . and the list goes on.

[Spr1ggan]

Kyocera, on 15 July 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

It's great that you're recommending long range CW builds when we all know CW is dead.

Most of the deathmatch maps promote closer range gameplay and, dare I say it, brawling.

Gauss+CERPPC poptart? That will get ripped to shreds in the PUG queue and so will Gauss+4CERML.

Sometimes it really is the mentality of the players that needs to change, not the game.

You don't know what you're talking about.

First off those were the best builds for the summoner before CW was even a thing. I hardly ever play CW because it's boring and i don't like the map layouts. So yeah i use those builds in the solo and group queue and have a 2+ K/D on all my summoners.

I don't know what Elo you play at but long and mid range builds >>> brawling most of the time.

[Hit the Deck]

I can attest that Spr1ggan used his Nova and Summoner effectively in PUG/solo matches. Maybe it's just because he's good

[Paigan]

I just played around in Smurfy and a 5xSSRM4 Summoner seems to be superior over a 6xSSRM2 Catapult.
More damage, more ammo, more speed, more JJs, more armor. However less survability than the Std 315 Engine.

No idea if that helps in any way. I wouldn't play either (or just to test / for fun).

Edited by Paigan, 16 July 2015 - 05:53 AM.

[0bsidion]

I wanted to like the Summoner, I really did. Usually I enjoy underdog mechs. I find myself playing the Nova quite a bit lately for example. But this thing is pretty much the Gargles of Clan heavies. Hardpoint starved combined with bad placement, and tonnage deprived.

I've tried all sorts of builds, and I just end up feeling mostly underwhelmed. If we could at least add ES or swap FF, it might help a little. So it sits there in it's mechbay beside Gargles, waiting for the day it gets better hard points or ES, collecting dust.

[DAYLEET]

I had quite a lot of fun in my summoner last night(isnt that the best reason?). I pulled kills and damage i expect heavies to do.

Then i tried 2 of my other heavy and i realised i liked the Summoner so much because it plays like a medium. It's my second heavy with the most drop (i try to avoid playing heavy). It's fast and agile a med, it has a bit more weaponry than a med and it has the extra 10-20 armor point on the front and the perks of being a Clanner. It's huge but after playing my trebs so much last month i didnt feel bad for it.

It probably would have been better if i had been in a med doing near the same score and let a capable pilot do their thing in a tbr/ebon/hbr. But i had much fun, if agile, fast striking medium is your kind of thing then a Summoner will treat you right.

Also the Summoner geometry look awesome. i even used my other variant last night instead of keeping it to the prime so i got to wear a nice camo! Blasphemy!