245 replies to this topic

[InspectorG]

XX Sulla XX, on 11 July 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

I believe now that the best way to ensure the future of MWO is a very very strong PVE

Sigh.

I dont want PVE but it may be the best way...

Well, tryhards can at least look forward to time trials, yes?

[ShadowWolf Kell]

LordKnightFandragon, on 11 July 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

I just hope they incorporate PVE into their gameplay, rather then have it be a side dish, do like AW and have it be another option on the menu. You can progress up the AW tech tree just as if you were in PVP. Some want earnings to be lower, I say keep them the same. Dont make PVE just a training element, make it a key feature alongside PVP. Coop PVE with 4 or 5 buddies, it really is a blast. Sometimes the drama and hard work of PVP just makes the game feel more like work then any kind of enjoyment.

I don't think that PvE is their intention to sidestep C-Bill and GXP progression in a team based game. While he did mention a single player component, it might likely be like War Thunder which not only has reduced incoming but a cap per day. It's more for fun factor than actual progression.

The PvE elements sounded like they were to be used in the various game modes both for the public queue and Community Warfare. Tanks, helicopters and so on.

I guess if you wanted to know more you'd have to pester Russ but that's the gist of what he'd talked about.


One thing I will say is that if they do make singleplayer a mode to progression, then they need to bring back R&R for that mode.

[SgtMagor]

single player game for sure. learning lore thru a Campaign, noob pilot training, using primitive tech, and sub standard loadouts on mechs  would be a good thing to do for logistic reasons.

Edited by SgtMagor, 11 July 2015 - 02:47 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

InspectorG, on 11 July 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

Sigh.

I dont want PVE but it may be the best way...

Well, tryhards can at least look forward to time trials, yes?

Well if PVE works well it would bring an influx of players to the game. Many would move on to PVP. Also new resources for PVE overlap with PVP so both could get better.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Things can be put into PvE first, tweaked and optimized then transition to PvP. I just don't EVER want balancing to work around PvE though.

[smokefield]

here :

http://mwomercs.com/...me/page__st__40

pve is not what is missing or wrong here...the CW approach is. they treated CW exactly like other game types they have (assault/skirmish/cap)...

Quote

its not the PVE that is missing here. when i first heard of mwo and read their plans i have dreamed about a game where you could play cooperative with your friends against other players, a game that had objectives, progress, where you took contract on a world and had to go through a campaign there, involving all sorts of missions..from scouting to full assault. this should have been the content PGI should add every month or so..not new mechpacks. New campaings, new challanges. I don't want hundreds of planets with only 5 maps to play on each of these planets. I want a couple of planets with hundreds environements to play on. I am sure we could have been satisfied woith only half of the mechs we have now but with a real developed planet, with missions, campaigns, real time strategy and hot drops. that is what is missing.

Edited by smokefield, 11 July 2015 - 02:55 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

smokefield, on 11 July 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

here :

http://mwomercs.com/...me/page__st__40

pve is not what is missing or wrong here...the CW approach is. they treated CW exactly like other game types they have (assault/skirmish/cap)...

Problem is it is wrong. PVE is what is missing. CW will always be unfair to new players. It will always not be the gaming experience hard core PVE people want. It can be made much better but its not the main problem.

[LordKnightFandragon]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 11 July 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

I don't think that PvE is their intention to sidestep C-Bill and GXP progression in a team based game. While he did mention a single player component, it might likely be like War Thunder which not only has reduced incoming but a cap per day. It's more for fun factor than actual progression.

The PvE elements sounded like they were to be used in the various game modes both for the public queue and Community Warfare. Tanks, helicopters and so on.

I guess if you wanted to know more you'd have to pester Russ but that's the gist of what he'd talked about.


One thing I will say is that if they do make singleplayer a mode to progression, then they need to bring back R&R for that mode.

ShadowWolf Kell, on 11 July 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

Things can be put into PvE first, tweaked and optimized then transition to PvP. I just don't EVER want balancing to work around PvE though.

That for sure, we would have so much nerfing more then likely, as everything would be OP.

PVE just needs to be an option for those who want to play stompy robots w/o the epeening of PVP.

Basically just a few friends who go in for some objective based gameplay. Really, I found AW's PVE far more immersive and objective based than any PVP game ever, since blowing up the enemy alone wasnt enough. We actually lost a number of times in PVE. It was actually kinda fun. Sure, its repetitive and the same, but that is only cuz its beta. I have little doubt it will only get better in AW. Russ should get himself an AW acct and go look at how they did PVE and incoporate the same basic idea here.

No reason to make PVE pay less then PVP really. Sure, if you do that it might bypass the PVP grind, but you hardcore PVPers, would you even touch PVE anyway? PVE would allow the casuals or bads a way to progress reasonably. Maybe after awhile of PVE they get comfy with the game and try PVP. Sure, it will be harder, but still. Would beat the current method. Though I think PVE should be more then a training grounds for noobs.

[TWIAFU]

XX Sulla XX, on 11 July 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

Reasons why we need to all back PVE as the most important near term goal fo the game.

1. PVE fixes the learning curve the stops most new players from staying with the game. They would no longer put directly in with skilled players when they cant even understand how to move etc.

2. PVE lets people help support the game that will never enjoy playing against other people.

3. PVE gives people a place to use mechs and builds that are substandard.

4. PVE can add indepth lore and role play etc that the current game just does not support well.

5. PVE can expand the player base to much higher levels than the current system ever can.

1. If the point to PvE was to teach people how to play the game in prep for Solo, Group, and CW. Yes, great idea.

2. Will get back to.

3. Elitist. Great way to alienate the new players you want to play by telling them Mechs they may like to play are substandard.

4. So long as it is part of #1, great idea!

5. Does not work with #2. What is the point to a larger playerbase if they are never going to play against another human?

[smokefield]

luckly not everyone agrees with you I want pgi to focus on what they have and improve it not to start another project from scratchand wait 3 more years to see something worth playing. not pve is the answer.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

LordKnightFandragon, on 11 July 2015 - 03:33 PM, said:

That for sure, we would have so much nerfing more then likely, as everything would be OP.

PVE just needs to be an option for those who want to play stompy robots w/o the epeening of PVP.

Basically just a few friends who go in for some objective based gameplay. Really, I found AW's PVE far more immersive and objective based than any PVP game ever, since blowing up the enemy alone wasnt enough. We actually lost a number of times in PVE. It was actually kinda fun. Sure, its repetitive and the same, but that is only cuz its beta. I have little doubt it will only get better in AW. Russ should get himself an AW acct and go look at how they did PVE and incoporate the same basic idea here.

No reason to make PVE pay less then PVP really. Sure, if you do that it might bypass the PVP grind, but you hardcore PVPers, would you even touch PVE anyway? PVE would allow the casuals or bads a way to progress reasonably. Maybe after awhile of PVE they get comfy with the game and try PVP. Sure, it will be harder, but still. Would beat the current method. Though I think PVE should be more then a training grounds for noobs.

I really don't know what you guys expect. Mass Effect 3 multiplayer was built entirely around a team of 4 co-op vs AI. It worked because that's entirely how the game was meant to be played.

MWO is designed entirely around team deathmatch PvP. One of their primary concerns is making the matchmaker better and the queues quicker. Pulling people OUT of multplayer and into a single player only PvE environment is counterproductive to what they're trying to achieve. I honestly don't think their PvE elements are going to be to circumvent the online play for progression.

I think singleplayer is more of a training or practice tool and nothing more at this point. PvE is a reality because they plan to enhance the PvP aspect by adding PvE into the mix, mostly for Community Warfare and maybe a new map mode. You're still going to have to fight other people in big stompy robots to buy more big stompy robots.

[SaltBeef]

PVE or single Player Campaigns provide the player more immersion and Fun a Replayable sanctuary against the High Alpha or Meta Team stomps. A player could Play a lore loadout and relive thier Battletech Fantasies given the AI was good.

[XX Sulla XX]

TWIAFU, on 11 July 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

1. If the point to PvE was to teach people how to play the game in prep for Solo, Group, and CW. Yes, great idea.

2. Will get back to.

3. Elitist. Great way to alienate the new players you want to play by telling them Mechs they may like to play are substandard.

4. So long as it is part of #1, great idea!

5. Does not work with #2. What is the point to a larger playerbase if they are never going to play against another human?

1. Well it would both train people so they could move into PVP but also have a place for those that never wanted to take part in PVP. Both would help keep people in the game.

3. Just speaking the truth. Many people like builds, playstyles and mechs that are not viable at higher Elo. PVE gives a place in the game for this.

4. Yes the lore and role play etc of PVE will mesh with helping people understand what is going on in PVP etc.

5. It does work with number 2. Here is why. This game takes money. It needs to sell mechs etc to keep the game alive. If people play the game who would only play PVE then that add money for the entire game. They buy starter packs. They buy mech collections. They buy camo. They tell there friends how much they like PVE in MWO. They make websites about Mechwarrior etc. The PVE people help the game even if they never play one game of PVP.

smokefield, on 11 July 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

luckly not everyone agrees with you I want pgi to focus on what they have and improve it not to start another project from scratchand wait 3 more years to see something worth playing. not pve is the answer.

It is the answer if done right. Yes you do not want them to neglect PVP. But this game needs PVE to attract more casual players and keep them.

[XX Sulla XX]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 11 July 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

I really don't know what you guys expect. Mass Effect 3 multiplayer was built entirely around a team of 4 co-op vs AI. It worked because that's entirely how the game was meant to be played.

MWO is designed entirely around team deathmatch PvP. One of their primary concerns is making the matchmaker better and the queues quicker. Pulling people OUT of multplayer and into a single player only PvE environment is counterproductive to what they're trying to achieve. I honestly don't think their PvE elements are going to be to circumvent the online play for progression.

I think singleplayer is more of a training or practice tool and nothing more at this point. PvE is a reality because they plan to enhance the PvP aspect by adding PvE into the mix, mostly for Community Warfare and maybe a new map mode. You're still going to have to fight other people in big stompy robots to buy more big stompy robots.

Your are looking at it wrong. Its not about pulling people out of PVP its about bringing people into MWO and keeping them. This game is brutal to new players. And will never keep many casual players the way its setup. I know lots of people that play games. But only a few that I think I could ever get into the current game. This limits the income of PGI and this limits the staff size and how fast we can get the content we want.

SaltBeef, on 11 July 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

PVE or single Player Campaigns provide the player more immersion and Fun a Replayable sanctuary against the High Alpha or Meta Team stomps. A player could Play a lore loadout and relive thier Battletech Fantasies given the AI was good.

Exactly a huge number of people want to play a more casual lore based game. Allowing them to do that can support the PVP I and others like.

[TheArisen]

I made a thread awhile back talking about how to implement pve. http://mwomercs.com/...campaign-ideas/

Basically, make & sell individual campaigns (Davion, Liao, Clan Wolf, etc) with a tutorial with a tutorial mini campaign (2-3 training sessions/missions)

Edited by TheArisen, 11 July 2015 - 04:26 PM.

[keith]

XX Sulla XX, on 11 July 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

Your are looking at it wrong. Its not about pulling people out of PVP its about bringing people into MWO and keeping them. This game is brutal to new players. And will never keep many casual players the way its setup. I know lots of people that play games. But only a few that I think I could ever get into the current game. This limits the income of PGI and this limits the staff size and how fast we can get the content we want.

Exactly a huge number of people want to play a more casual lore based game. Allowing them to do that can support the PVP I and others like.

this, and even with pve u can still do the 3 mech system. as much as it sucks. it would give pgi income, players i would assume earn some form of cbills in pve. both sides win

[Arkbird_]

XX Sulla XX, on 11 July 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

4. Encourage PGI to have good PVE BEFORE they go live on Steam.

This. Could've had MW:O be a big hit on Steam if this was done. Alas it will not be so.

[Kassatsu]

TheArisen, on 11 July 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

I made a thread awhile back talking about how to implement pve. http://mwomercs.com/...campaign-ideas/

Basically, make & sell individual campaigns (Davion, Liao, Clan Wolf, etc) with a tutorial with a tutorial mini campaign (2-3 training sessions/missions)

Tutorial/training should be free (with one-time rewards, but infinitely replayable).

Campaigns should be multi-mission contracts you can accept by putting up the contract fee, all of the different houses should have campaigns available. (and clans because we've already got mercenaries joining clans for CW so that part of lore is already out the window - perhaps give bonus rewards if you've taken a CW contract for a clan/house, but don't force the player to take one to accept a pve mission). Upon completion, you get paid the contract reward amount, if you fail or the time limit expires (generally 24 hours or even a week, not something silly like 4 missions in 40 minutes), your fee is forfeit and you only get the reward from the individual missions you've completed. A daily/weekly limit on contracts should be in place, though the limit should increase with premium accounts, and can be bypassed altogether with MC on a per-contract basis (what would be the amount for this? 15? 60? I'm thinking 10-20 per mission, so the actual MC fee would be different based on how many missions it has).

There should also be two types of contracts: daily, and weekly. Weekly has a longer time limit, more missions and far better rewards, but you can only attempt these once a week. Daily is just that: 24 hour time limit, maybe 3-4 missions each and less rewards. More than one daily should be available per faction as well. Possibly getting faction camo/color/cockpit rewards from weekly contracts would be a neat addition.

*ALWAYS* have a 'free' mode available that has randomly generated missions and rewards (simple things like 2 medium lasers and 60k c-bills, have varying rarities for the rewards so you just might rarely be able to pick up a free AC20 or something from a randomly generated mission). Pay a small fee to accept the random mission, these are not faction specific and have no connection to anything (like the PvP modes), they're just there to grind endlessly for an admittedly smaller amount of income than PvP. Maybe force public groups if you're not a premium player? Premium should have some type of incentive beyond "get more shinies!". That goes for PvP as well.

Some missions should require specific mech chassis (from ones you own - If a mission needs one you don't have, and it's not provided to you by the mission, it simply won't show up in the list). Some should provide the required mechs (for that one mission of course). Others should have weight restrictions, and some would be totally free, perhaps have a 'recommended' weight class where going above it has no effect, and going below gives a small bonus to the rewards.

Also, a community mission editor would be amazing, and practically required if you REALLY want to add more replay value for literally no cost whatsoever (aside from the initial investment in the toolset). Have the devs pick a weekly regular, and weekly premium mission from the community. Regular missions give some small amount of c-bills to the maker for every time somebody completes it successfully, premium missions would give 5 MC (it would cost say 15 to start it) and some c-bills. Throw some GXP in there for both just for the hell of it. Heck, maybe even require premium time on your account at the time the selection is made for your mission to be considered for the premium weekly mission.

Edited by Kassatsu, 11 July 2015 - 04:53 PM.

[Bloody]

PvE is likely the only way forward , there is not enough pvp players who like BT who can stand the ******** grind and 3 mech cockblock that Russ and co have flopped their {Richard Cameron} over.

PVE will allow players to play at their pace and see progression as well as introduce the mainly noob pve WoWsers into the game

[XX Sulla XX]

TheArisen, on 11 July 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

I made a thread awhile back talking about how to implement pve. http://mwomercs.com/...campaign-ideas/

Basically, make & sell individual campaigns (Davion, Liao, Clan Wolf, etc) with a tutorial with a tutorial mini campaign (2-3 training sessions/missions)

Looks interesting will have to read over it.

Arkbird Phoenix Kell, on 11 July 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

This. Could've had MW:O be a big hit on Steam if this was done. Alas it will not be so.

Yep you cant have the new player experience be so bad and the casual players experience so lacking when it comes out on steam.