Gentleman Reaper, on 15 January 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:
Was looking forward to this, and I feel you nailed the formula, these are my impressions of each weapon:
SL: I would increase the range to no lower than 140, cooldown/heat can be changed to compensate. Wouldn't be against SL and ERSL going to 3.5 damage, what do you think?
I'm trying really hard not to buff damage values. It's not so much a purist thing, but rather I like the idea that where the Clans get one big shot in for the heat and time and have to use quantity of guns to increase DPS, the IS make two or three smaller ones with a smaller number of faster-firing guns. Regardless of how we approach it, though, there isn't a whole lot of room to differentiate all of these small-class lasers.
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ERSL: This one is surprising, didn't think the cooldown would take such a hit despite having double the heat, not sure what to think...
Same issue as above. Nerfed the cool-down because otherwise I'd never take the standard SL. Honestly, either the isSL or isERSL is going to die in terms of people actually using it. There's really no way around it. If we bump the damage, we also start putting the SPL and SXPL out of a job because the 'Mechs that would be mostly using these have a significant premium on mass.
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cERSL: You used this as a baseline, just like I would. It's perfect as it is now.
Yeah, almost. It's not
quite good enough to be taken against cSPL, needed only minor adjustments. Might actually be OP due to mass, but it's hard to say without play-testing.
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cERML: A small cooldown nerf, which is not unexpected.
Nobody fires it full-tilt anyway, and the extra hard cap on DPS was necessary to increase the gulf for the standard ML.
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LL: A small range buff, with longer cooldown. I would've imagined a shorter cooldown overall, I don't feel the LL is competitive right now.
The LL is competitive, it just depends on quirks. When it's stuck at stock range, it doesn't quite have the reach. When it has the quirks, it's actually very good. Three of them on a fast-moving IS medium is akin to a pair of cLPL on a fast-moving Clan medium, actually slightly better. If it wasn't pigeon-holed into operating mostly at brawl ranges by standard Medium Lasers (read: if it could be paired with isERML), it would be a much more potent option.It doesn't help that it's usually being run on STD 'Mechs that aren't quite fast enough to poke or isXL 'Mechs that will get popped due to the longer exposure than LPL. This won't be an issue with LFEs (
I have already done the math, paragraph near the bottom about LFEs).With LFEs and isERML, IS 'Mechs can potentially go toe-to-toe with Clan vomit.
You will also notice that cool-down increasing is actually a trend across the board for larger lasers so that smaller ones can have some breathing room.
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ERLL: This one doesn't seem right at all, a 44% range increase for 14% more heat and 5% longer burntime, doesn't seem like a fair trade-off, I can't see this not obsoleting the LL overall.
Possibly. It is likely an artifact of the cERLL's score being impossible to bring down due to its tonnage and me trying to keep the isERLL up there to match it, but also being worried that too much range on the LL would make the isERLL irrelevant. I could probably increase the cool-down time (to 4.00s I think, 4.25s tops) on the isERLL, but it won't drop its score to the ~0.489 goal-post.
I can't increase the duration on it, otherwise the cERLL walks all over it.
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SPL: I would go 120 meters for longer cooldown
Maybe, but crunch factor is at work here.
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SXPL: Range is way too much, an XPL shouldn't beat an ER laser in range. I would go for 170-180 meters for 3 heat.
When it's that hot, yes it should. It's a 4 damage weapon with the heat of an ERML. If I do what you suggest, I'm not gaining anything useful enough to make me want to take the SXPL instead of an isERSL. With my version, what I get is effectively a cut-down Medium Pulse, something that could be very useful for Lights that are dodging Gauss and PPCs. If I'm going for shorter-range poke, the SXPL is ideal. If I'm brawling, I'm going to want one of the other, colder, higher-DPS Smalls.
cSPL: Buff is not unexpected.
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MPL: Would trade a bit of cooldown for lower burn.
Why? I've barely increased it, it's 0.6 right now, it used to be 0.67, and nobody noticed when they altered it. We are still way under the 0.8 threshold for spread-ability, anyway.
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MXPL: Would trade range for less heat
Maybe. I'm not giving X-Pulse any ghost heat linkage except at the large size, they already run hot enough. I'm picturing something like a TDR-5SS bringing seven of these with 20x DHS on a STD 300, and while it will be a supremely effective mid-range poke, the heat equaling damage is going to keep it in check unlike before, when we had 351 meter isMPL with 4 heat per gun. That was a little ridiculous.
Also, the cMPL can be boosted with a TC. I'm not sure IS will be getting TCs and, even if they do, I don't think they'll really have the tonnage to use them. Certainly not here, I'd sooner cram in another DHS if I have the slots. That's the rationale for superior range.
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LXPL: Heat and cooldown penalties seems a bit steep for the range increase. Comparing to the cLPL, you're trading lots of damage and a ton for only better burn, despite having the same heat and cooldown.
The standard LL is the one you should be looking to for a comparison against the cLPL, though nothing in the IS arsenal is really competing one for one with the Clan option...not even the isERML. The LXPL is really your PPC alternative, more like. It trades ease-of-use for more heat than the PPC (my stats give the PPC 8 heat) and a 25% cut to maximum range which, by the way, it has an advantage over the cLPL on (1.75x multiplier for both, 945 max on the LXPL, 893 max on the cLPL...not quite chump change).
Like the isERLL vs. cERLL, though, I've probably overcompensated with the LXPL due to the cLPL's score being unmanageable.
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HSL: Burn and heat seem way too low, although I'm also imagining the range being higher. Comparing to the SL it seems way too good, double the damage and damage/tick for barely less range and twice the heat is a bad tradeoff, especially since it still has better DPS.
At the range the cHSL hits zero damage, the cERSL is just reaching optimum. Seems like enough of a reason to take the cERSL to me. Damage-wise, it's got the same output as the cSPL during the shot, and more DPS for the whole cycle to compensate for loss of reach.
It could be yet another case of a weapon with an unmanageable score, but this time it's making it look artificially worse than it is...actually, similar goes for the cERSL. Alternative values I have in mind are a range of 120 meters, burn of 1 second, and a cool-down of 2.25 seconds. Needs play-testing, we're running into crunch with the Clan smalls here.
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HLL: I see you swapped the lore damage and heat values, although the range is pretty low (I imagined the HLs having the same range as the normal lasers) but it still seems too effective for its burn. I would've thought something like 16 damage 15 heat considering the tonnage.
Wasn't my intention to swap the lore values, I didn't even bother to look, lol.
Range is low because my interpretation of Heavy Lasers is as a sort of inverted version of standard IS pulse lasers. They get better damage per unit of duration, just like IS Pulse, but they achieve that through raw power and not through shorter beam time. I considered the standard laser range angle, but that's too samey with other Clan weapons and carries with it too great a risk of obsoleting weapons like the cLPL, cMPL, CSPL, and cERSL if we go that route. We'd have to get more creative than we already have with ghost heat to prevent that.
Now, considering you can only fire two of these things together in my playbook due to ghost heat, and due to the fact that any similarly-ranged weapon (cERML, cMPL) is packing a lot of heat (just two more puts you at 44 heat for 50 damage...which is very similar to the 41 heat that 3x LL + 5x ERML would generate for 52 damage or 3x LPL + 5x ERML for 58 damage), I don't yet see a problem.
Firing four to six cERML with two cHLL would be a gimmick build. That's a
lot of heat for such a short-ranged weapon, which already has the drawbacks of long burn and long cool-down for its bracket.
Needs play-testing. I suspect all of the HMLs are going to be wonky; we've never had anything this tonnage efficient in the game, I can only interpret from the numbers so much.
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BL: Doesn't seem like it's worth the 9 tons at all TBH, the burn time makes it more attractive to simply bring two LLs instead. These are my stats:
Binary Laser Cannon (IS):
Mass: 9 tons
Slots: 4
Damage: 14
Burn time: 0.75
Cooldown: 4.5
DPS: 3.11
Heat: 12
HPS: 2.67
Optimal range: 525 meters
Max range: 1050 meters
What do you think?
Your numbers put it in direct competition with the LXPL, and even the standard LPL. Do I take three LPL/LXPL for 21 tons and 33 damage over 0.85 seconds, or do I take two BLCs for 18 tons and 28 damage over 0.75? Personally, the BLC looks like the clear winner to me given its range and weight. Since yours is a very nippy turn-and-burn laser, the 5 extra points don't really mean much to me, and the weight savings let me offset the three points of heat with three more DHS.
In my mind, the Binary Laser's true purpose is to give hard-point starved 'Mechs that have the tonnage an option to boost their total alpha. Alternatively, it allows a tonnage-starved 'Mech to almost double the number of large lasers it has at a reduced price in weight. Finally, it can also serve as a center-piece around which you build a 'Mech. What it is objectively
not supposed to be is the IS answer to the cHLL.
I could see buffing its output to 16 damage, burn to 1 second, and nerfing its heat to 13 and cool-down to 3.75 seconds, but really I think it's actually fairly balanced within the IS lineup.
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Also you missed the Micro lasers.
I didn't miss them, I just don't see that they add much to the game. Personally, I would end up stripping them off of any 'Mech they were loaded onto and replacing them with any of the listed lasers above anyway. I want the pods that come with them, but I don't want them for their own sake.
I also left out Variable Speed Pulse and the Bombast Laser for the same reasons. They don't really add anything to the game in terms of roles.
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