40 replies to this topic

[Sarlic]

It basically screwed up the game on the long term. And they' knew it.

I shout out loud.

I know, i know. There are several threads about this subject i believe.

We all knew it was going to happen some day. It's slowly becoming more visible.

With more IIC tech and other finished waves incoming the game is going to drown slowly in their own problems --> balance-wise.

It has been happening from the start around 2012. Even back we had balance problems and we still have them. 3 years of endless balance problem folks.

Fun...these lasor mechs...real fun. Vomit tech, so happy. We need more of 'em! Or speed.. moar speed so we can eventually NASCAR to space!

Gameplay-wise speed is getting out of control. It's losing it's face as a great reasonable paced simulator. it feels like a bad speedy FPS.

The management has litterally zero clue of how-to balance the game. Up to today we have met about two or three e x t r e m e balance changes. First it was the test server and then it got magically approved by QA and introduced in game shortly. Next are these ridiculous quirks changes we're facing now. Everybody goes nuts and woo-hoo when they are expecting up to 50% of quirks.

So, who thought it was a good idea to introduce clan waves / invasions? (Yo, because there' terrible strong in TT we need 'em here too! Source: piece of paper laying around the coffee table.)

Then we have these little bright shiners who remotely justify the laser arena we' have end up with.

I tell you what, i give this game till Russ brilliant idea of a "big, new major overhaul" which will hopefully change the game in something decent. I gave them enough time. I can handle few extreme changes but i can't handle amount of extreme we're going to face again. "Yeah it will take atleast two slow years before we might... might get something interesting balance wise" You what?!
The River City overhaul is something i finally liked. Actually something decent and worth to stay for. But this is PGI we're talking about. The management is terrible. Up to now we're seeing improvements but again i hate the astronomical slow development speed. I don't have much expectations, neither should you.

What are your expectation so far? Hear ya!

Edited by Sarlic, 13 July 2015 - 07:25 AM.

[El Bandito]

Here is hoping the laser vomit meta is somewhat curbed by this "impending big re-balance patch", before the Resistance II drops. Cause there will be more rainbows. Recent ER/PPC velocity buff helped a little.

I must add, that current meta is still heads above the pooptartfest we had back in 2013. That does not mean weapons like LBX must collect dust in the garage though...

Edited by El Bandito, 13 July 2015 - 10:42 PM.

[TheCharlatan]

We are all looking forward to "the great rebalance of 2015".
For good or ill, it's going to be a turning point.
Either way, we'll be discussing about it for weeks.

[Ultimax]

Most likeley Russ & whoever works in marketing/sales.


It's been pretty successful, from a business standpoint.

[Sarlic]

El Bandito, on 13 July 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

Here is hoping the laser vomit meta is somewhat curbed by this "impending big re-balance patch", before the Resistance II drops. Cause there will be more rainbows. Recent ER/PPC velocity buff helped a little.

I must add though, that current meta is still heads above the pooptartfest we had back in 2013.

I do see a increase of pilots carrying Gauss plus new ERPPCs. The buff is great and all, but not the dropping HPs logic behind it.
I wonder what this rebalance will do.

I heard it will be quirks shizzle all over again. If it is i end this miserable game personally.

[meteorol]

Sarlic, on 13 July 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

So, who thought it was a good idea to introduce clan waves / invasions? (Yo, because there' terrible strong in TT we need 'em here too! Source: piece of paper laying around the coffee table.)

Clanmech packs are probably one of their main sources of money. The TW is an iconic mech, and many know it from being on the cover of previous mechwarrior titles. Bringing clanmechs to the game was most likely a business decision.

Edited by meteorol, 13 July 2015 - 07:29 AM.

[Throat Punch]

Canonically the Clans moved in waves through the IS with parts of what we called Clan Wave I and II actually being sighted about the same time through the invasion corridors with the Wave III mechs being sighted once the Clans had captured deeper IS worlds. The IIC mechs are second line and are generally piloted by solahma and disgraced warriors and were only seen on captured worlds as garrison units and were rarely seen by regular IS units unless they were attempting to liberated conquered worlds. So in that respect the "waves" make some sense.

As for the power creep that is occurring from these waves, back when the game was in Beta I had discussed on these forums with several people that if they couldn't balance the current level 1 IS tech that they were going to end up going through an endless cycle of nerfs and buffs and more nerfs as they attempted to balance the IS tech with what should realistically be superior Clan technology. I was of the mindset that they shouldn't even introduce the clans until they had balanced the IS tech; however, I saw why PGI and tptb had to introduce the Clans ($$$).

So far the balancing of the Clan tech with the IS tech has been ...okay. The quirk system is a decent band-aid, but there are still some OP mechs on both sides of the fence due to the quirks. Hopefully when the big balance pass happens PGI will successfully level things out to a better degree. If not and they continue to press the timeline forward then they will run into even more trouble trying to balance the new weapons the timeline introduces.

I hope I didn't meander too far from your topic. Just my 2 C-bills.

[Kain Demos]

Laser vomit will always be around---energy weapons have always been strong and popular in this franchise. The amount of CERLLs people used to run in MW4: Mercs on the Nova Cat was insane.

[Sarlic]

Ultimatum X, on 13 July 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

Most likeley Russ & whoever works in marketing/sales.


It's been pretty successful, from a business standpoint.

So is his cap of 140 on Twitter.

I wonder how much each package the amount of % profit is. I think its above the 200%.

meteorol, on 13 July 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

Clanmech packs are probably one of their main sources of money. The TW is an iconic mech, and many know it from being on the cover of previous mechwarrior titles. Bringing clanmechs to the game was most likely a business decision.

Yep. Previous had them too. But the way on PGI balances things.. Ugh don't get me started.
Previous titles weren't better or much worse i agree. But this is 2015 we're talking about. Complex algorithms and hard thinking is possible.

Edited by Sarlic, 13 July 2015 - 07:35 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Mors Draco, on 13 July 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

The quirk system is a decent band-aid, but there are still some OP mechs on both sides of the fence due to the quirks. Hopefully when the big balance pass happens PGI will successfully level things out to a better degree. If not and they continue to press the timeline forward then they will run into even more trouble trying to balance the new weapons the timeline introduces.

I hope I didn't meander too far from your topic. Just my 2 C-bills.

I hope they have the introduction of those new weapon systems in mind while working on this pass otherwise we can expect a re-pass. Re-balance? Re-balance pass? Re-pass balance?

[Sjorpha]

You think the development of the last year has been slow?

Seriously? I can't disgree more, the game has been developing very fast since I joined 1.5 years ago.

It takes at least 5-6 years to make a game like this by normal development standards, to me this seems to be going faster than most development cycles I am part of testing.

I agree that the balancing has been a mess and not very well handled, but I'm hoping that PGI is getting better at it just like they have improved so much on the mapmaking, modeling and UI front lately. They seem to be catching up.

[Sarlic]

Mors Draco, on 13 July 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

Canonically the Clans moved in waves through the IS with parts of what we called Clan Wave I and II actually being sighted about the same time through the invasion corridors with the Wave III mechs being sighted once the Clans had captured deeper IS worlds. The IIC mechs are second line and are generally piloted by solahma and disgraced warriors and were only seen on captured worlds as garrison units and were rarely seen by regular IS units unless they were attempting to liberated conquered worlds. So in that respect the "waves" make some sense.

As for the power creep that is occurring from these waves, back when the game was in Beta I had discussed on these forums with several people that if they couldn't balance the current level 1 IS tech that they were going to end up going through an endless cycle of nerfs and buffs and more nerfs as they attempted to balance the IS tech with what should realistically be superior Clan technology. I was of the mindset that they shouldn't even introduce the clans until they had balanced the IS tech; however, I saw why PGI and tptb had to introduce the Clans ($$$).

So far the balancing of the Clan tech with the IS tech has been ...okay. The quirk system is a decent band-aid, but there are still some OP mechs on both sides of the fence due to the quirks. Hopefully when the big balance pass happens PGI will successfully level things out to a better degree. If not and they continue to press the timeline forward then they will run into even more trouble trying to balance the new weapons the timeline introduces.

I hope I didn't meander too far from your topic. Just my 2 C-bills.

No man. Good call.

Exactly why i disliked these waves. It was a huge mess to start with and they just put some more oil on a already burning fire.

It was just a matter of time a out these 'huge' changes.

Edited by Sarlic, 13 July 2015 - 07:43 AM.

[Sarlic]

Sjorpha, on 13 July 2015 - 07:35 AM, said:

You think the development of the last year has been slow?

Seriously? I can't disgree more, the game has been developing very fast since I joined 1.5 years ago.

It takes at least 5-6 years to make a game like this by normal development standards, to me this seems to be going faster than most development cycles I am part of testing.

I agree that the balancing has been a mess and not very well handled, but I'm hoping that PGI is getting better at it just like they have improved so much on the mapmaking, modeling and UI front lately. They seem to be catching up.

Yeah, sorry. I have a different view on it. Sure. Speed has been overall better then before. But their ways of prioritising things is just.. bad. Like there's a Indian guy behind the wheel and just steers from the left to the right without thinking.

Edited by Sarlic, 13 July 2015 - 08:16 AM.

[MechaBattler]

They're actually doing better than I would have given them credit for back in 2013. Development is more steady than it was before. The overhaul they're doing is clearly because of the "power creep" as you say. Which hopefully means they won't try to balance the game around 2 mechs that are performing too well for their weight class. Which in turn means less heavy handed quirks.

[Joseph Mallan]

TWIAFU, on 13 July 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

I hope they have the introduction of those new weapon systems in mind while working on this pass otherwise we can expect a re-pass. Re-balance? Re-balance pass? Re-pass balance?

Sounds like the CBT TROs
TRO
TRO:Revised
TRO:Update
TRO:Upgrade
TRO:UpYours

It was one thing I did not like about TT. 4 Books for the same era TRO with some new fluff and maybe 2 new entries.
...
...
...
and YES, I own them all!

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Sarlic, on 13 July 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

It basically screwed up the game on the long term. And they' knew it.

I shout out loud.

I know, i know. There are several threads about this subject i believe.

We all knew it was going to happen some day. It's slowly becoming more visible.

With more IIC tech and other finished waves incoming the game is going to drown slowly in their own problems --> balance-wise.

It has been happening from the start around 2012. Even back we had balance problems and we still have them. 3 years of endless balance problem folks.

Fun...these lasor mechs...real fun. Vomit tech, so happy. We need more of 'em! Or speed.. moar speed so we can eventually NASCAR to space!

Gameplay-wise speed is getting out of control. It's losing it's face as a great reasonable paced simulator. it feels like a bad speedy FPS.

The management has litterally zero clue of how-to balance the game. Up to today we have met about two or three e x t r e m e balance changes. First it was the test server and then it got magically approved by QA and introduced in game shortly. Next are these ridiculous quirks changes we're facing now. Everybody goes nuts and woo-hoo when they are expecting up to 50% of quirks.

So, who thought it was a good idea to introduce clan waves / invasions? (Yo, because there' terrible strong in TT we need 'em here too! Source: piece of paper laying around the coffee table.)

Then we have these little bright shiners who remotely justify the laser arena we' have end up with.

I tell you what, i give this game till Russ brilliant idea of a "big, new major overhaul" which will hopefully change the game in something decent. I gave them enough time. I can handle few extreme changes but i can't handle amount of extreme we're going to face again. "Yeah it will take atleast two slow years before we might... might get something interesting balance wise" You what?!
The River City overhaul is something i finally liked. Actually something decent and worth to stay for. But this is PGI we're talking about. The management is terrible. Up to now we're seeing improvements but again i hate the astronomical slow development speed. I don't have much expectations, neither should you.

What are your expectation so far? Hear ya!

Mine are basic. I want the game to function at a basic level, and be balanced the same. They still have trouble with that, so they fall short of simple expectations and therefore won't get another dime from me until core issues are resolved. I'll still play every now and then, but I have NO expectations from them, simple or extreme.

Look, plain and simple... They needed revenue. I get that. But gaming has a long history of "develop first, fix later" and players have a long history of prepurchasing things no matter how upset they were about the issues about their previous purchase (and that's the worst goddamned part). So long as that sick circle exists, devs don't have to worry about the quality of the content they put out, or the timeline in which they put it out.

"Sooner" or later they'll run out of mech models to create, so need to milk that ca$hcow for as long as possible, because patches don't pay bills.

If you're fine with the state of game, then good. Whatever makes you happy... But people need to realize that if you keep paying for content yet hate the direction things are going, you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Vote with your money. Then they'll decide if its worth working hard at fixing the game or abandoning it for another game. I heard people are throwing tons of money at that new space game, maybe they could try Aerospace.

[DONTOR]

Laser Vomit is by far the weakest meta we have had, its easy as hell to combat. I hope it sticks around for quite some time. I don't EVER even use it but I love that others do.
The primary reason we even have laser vomit, is because Clan ballistics were so bad for soooo long, still waitng on slugs........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

[Sarlic]

DONTOR, on 13 July 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Laser Vomit is by far the weakest meta we have had, its easy as hell to combat. I hope it sticks around for quite some time. I don't EVER even use it but I love that others do.
The primary reason we even have laser vomit, is because Clan ballistics were so bad for soooo long, still waitng on slugs........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Well there's a option to combat it. But.. things gets very dull if 90% of the people carry the same loadout? Where's the fun of customizing when the biggest alpha or easy rackin' with low heat counts?

[Kain Demos]

Sarlic, on 13 July 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

Well there's a option to combat it. But.. things gets very dull if 90% of the people carry the same loadout? Where's the fun of customizing when the biggest alpha or easy rackin' with low heat counts?

I have so much fun playing around in the 'mechlab in this game I have spent literally hours doing it and hitting the test grounds before dropping with it just looking for fun stuff that works.

What other people carry could never make the game "dull"---I am not playing their 'mechs. My job is to make them miss and out-trade them so scanning their loadout and then planning a counter is the end of my investment in what other people are playing.

[Sarlic]

Kain Demos, on 13 July 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

I have so much fun playing around in the 'mechlab in this game I have spent literally hours doing it and hitting the test grounds before dropping with it just looking for fun stuff that works.

What other people carry could never make the game "dull"---I am not playing their 'mechs. My job is to make them miss and out-trade them so scanning their loadout and then planning a counter is the end of my investment in what other people are playing.

True true. There are some having a blast.

I spend more time on Smurfy's then the mechlab in this game. I still think Smurfy beats the mechlab in the game.