16 replies to this topic

[Night Thastus]

This is a simple thread I decided to create. It contains retrofits of stock 'Mechs. They contain the same general weaponry, but generally add Artemis, Endo, and XL Engines to improve the performance of the 'Mech. Lasers are ocassionally upgraded to pulse versions, as is common in the lore for upgrades.

Example:

BEFORE (Thunderbolt 5S)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f76fe4be49e393d

AFTER (Thunderbolt 5S)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...443dff1b3c73847

(Standard Engine version)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...91bd9d051953e67

Notice the difference?
This new thunderbolt maintains the feel and stock-ish-ness of the original, but has 15% greater cooling efficiency, Artemis for both the SRM's and the LRM's, and upgrades all lasers to pulse lasers.

It's essentially what would happen if the Star League retrofitted a 'Mech. Sorta.

More below!

Catapult - K2

BEFORE:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c66679ea2db1253

AFTER:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...99cd9938ad175cd

(7% better cooling efficiency, more armor, 14 KM/HR increase in speed)

You get the idea. More to be added soon.

Dragon - 5N

BEFORE:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9c81d6bb7eef996

AFTER:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1b55d5ba278f3e8

Edited by Night Thastus, 13 July 2015 - 03:31 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

In all regards, stock mechs are stock because of their canon loadout. canon has nothing to do with efficience or performance.
On a sidenote, you also added XL engines which not only doubles (the tbolts almost trippled) the costs but is also flatout against canon. The 5S tbolt for example was manufactured more then half a century before XL engines came along.
Artemis is another thing, invented almost a century later, long after the first 5S rolled of the factory.

PGI already altered the stocks for the largest parts (like the dragon doesn't have it's rear mounted medium laser, which would be utterly potato in the game).

PGI already has improved versions of stockmechs, they're called champions.

Edit: almost forgot, large pulse weren't invented the time the 5S rolled out either.

If you want star league tech on a thunderbolt. there is the 5sb, or the almost recently developed 5ss.
even the 9se which was developed and rolled out 3050.

Edited by LOADED, 13 July 2015 - 03:27 PM.

[Night Thastus]

LOADED, on 13 July 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:

In all regards, stock mechs are stock because of their canon loadout. canon has nothing to do with efficience or performance.
On a sidenote, you also added XL engines which not only doubles (the tbolts almost trippled) the costs but is also flatout against canon. The 5S tbolt for example was manufactured more then half a century before XL engines came along.
Artemis is another thing, invented almost a century later, long after the first 5S rolled of the factory.

PGI already altered the stocks for the largest parts (like the dragon doesn't have it's rear mounted medium laser, which would be utterly potato in the game).

PGI already has improved versions of stockmechs, they're called champions.

Edit: almost forgot, large pulse weren't invented the time the 5S rolled out either.

If you want star league tech on a thunderbolt. there is the 5sb, or the almost recently developed 5ss.
even the 9se which was developed and rolled out 3050.

I didn't intend for these 'Mechs to be lore upgrades.
I intended for these to be retrofits, taking older models and updating them with better 'Tech, but retaining the same base weaponry.

As for the Thunderbolt, I have an Alt version here that is very similar, but uses a Standard engine.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...91bd9d051953e67

It's only 5 points larger engine-wise, but using endo-steel gets maximum armor, artemis on both launchers, and AMS, along with double heatsinks of course.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Night Thastus, on 13 July 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

I didn't intend for these 'Mechs to be lore upgrades.
I intended for these to be retrofits, taking older models and updating them with better 'Tech, but retaining the same base weaponry.

As for the Thunderbolt, I have an Alt version here that is very similar, but uses a Standard engine.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...91bd9d051953e67

It's only 5 points larger engine-wise, but using endo-steel gets maximum armor, artemis on both launchers, and AMS, along with double heatsinks of course.

Well yes.. no.. argh.. how do i put this... I know it doesn't looks like a big deal to you to add a different engine or endo to a mech because MWO and it's mechlab does make it super easy and comfortable.
While in my head, it's still battletech.
Retrofitting a mech with an other engine and endo steel basically means that you rebuild the whole freaking mech by scratch. piece by piece. that would take months if not years in canon.
Not only that, it is stupidly expensive even IF you even have the facility or the techs with knowledge to do so.
Battle'mechs are ancient relicts, build by AI driven facilities, almost nobody has an idea how they really work, or how to build them (or rebuild them).
Endo-steel for example is something which was carefully hidden by comstar and only recently found it's way back to the different factions.
A customized mech is something only a very low percentage of mechwarriors would own, those thing were basically new mechs and famed amoung mechwarriors thoughout the galaxy.

I get that it's not a bit thing, given that MWO is almost custom 'mechs vs custom 'mechs and custom 'mechs vs custom 'mechs only. A solaris extravaganza, so to speak, which has little to do with battletech.

But the term of modified stockmechs makes me cringe quite a bit. since stock mechs are canon, are battletech. and they are not modified.

If you make this post to get a bit of actual canon feeling by keeping mechs close to what they would be IF mwo would stick to canon battletech, i simply misinterpreted your intention (by thinking you wanted to improve stock mechs).

But i might say that if you do have that intent, use stock mechs with half their armor in privat matches. (without modules, skills and whatnot)

[Night Thastus]

LOADED, on 13 July 2015 - 04:33 PM, said:

stuff

Why did you bother posting any of that? I'm aware of all that. I was just posting some of my ideas for builds online. No need to take stuff so seriously.

:/

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Because.. stock 'mechs. like i said, canon.. battletech.. factory default... timeline.. bla bla you don't want to hear it anyway (because you know it)

My concusion was just that your build are far of from stock.
this is your retrofit of the 5s, i took off what the canon stock 5s shouldn't have thanks to timeline and stuff...

Thundebolt 5s

:/

[Nightshade24]

The intetion of this is what many here call "Stock+" and "Stock++".

Which includes the changes of engine ratings, engine types, armour types, structure types, ammo count, ammo location, and possibly changing SRM's standard or streak guidance system around or the LRM's standard or artemis guidance system, and possibly changing lasers between the standard, er , or pulse variant.


These are not strictly intended to be lore, but they are intended to capture the feel of the stock mech and make it playable to be a competitive or semi competitive mech out there in the field.



How far away from stock is it to be considered stock+ or stock++ is a debate. However it is kind of built on personal preference.

Some people consider things "alternate stock+" if they changed the weapons around completely BUT still capture the feel of the original mech. This can be having a stalker with 2 ER PPC's, 4 medium pulse lasers, and 4 LRM 5/10's.

The original mech is designed to be a mech good at all ranges practically, Basicly hitting the enemy mech harder and harder as it moves in as more weapons overlap the ranges.
On the stock, it goes from max range to lowest...
2x "LRM 20's", 2x "Large laser", 4x 'medium laser' tied with 4 x 'srm 6'

The 'new' build still follows the exact same principle, but with different weapons.
4 x "LRM 5/10's" 2x "ER PPC", 4x "Medium pulse laser"


Also another example is most hero mechs relative to the standards... Misery to the Stalker (replaces LRM's with Gauss rifle) for instance.


However what isn't stock plus is say having a stalker with 6 large lasers or 6 ppc's, or having a raven with 2 er large lasers.

[Mazzyplz]

if it was 3050 then tdr pilots in lore woulda taken the years to add XL or artemis to their rigs. what's so non canon about it?
what is this an iphone? do you void the warranty when you tweak it? one thing is stock and another thing is straight out of the package, you can also play the mech without setting up your weapon groups, more stock that way!!!

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Nightshade24, on 13 July 2015 - 05:36 PM, said:

The intetion of this is what many here call "Stock+" and "Stock++".
*...*

Yep, thanks. i grasped it after OP edited his post a little. I also mentioned it, but i probably typed to much for it to get stuck.

In terms of stock and stock+, i might say that i'm more or less a purist, for me, stock is canon battletech. stock+ is virutally the same as custom (while it does maintain at least the feeling of an actual battletech stock mech).

Mazzyplz, on 13 July 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

if it was 3050 then tdr pilots in lore woulda taken the years to add XL or artemis to their rigs. what's so non canon about it?
what is this an iphone? do you void the warranty when you tweak it? one thing is stock and another thing is straight out of the package, you can also play the mech without setting up your weapon groups, more stock that way!!!

a canon 3050 thunderbolt would be the thunderbolt 9S because that thing is literally a stock thunderbolt build in 3050.
there's nothing wrong with a customized thunderbolt 5S in 3050, but it can't be further away from called anything remotely close to stock if the only thing it retains is a pair of mashineguns. all the more, if anyting besides the guns was either lostech or not invented at that time.
If we talk about canon (and not mwo) a thunderbolt modified this heavily would be a curiosity hidden away in a secret comstar hangar


Also, Thastus, don't get me wrong here, i like your builds way more then the usual 7 mpl 'cuz quirks tbolts.

[Night Thastus]

That was kinda the intention. While I do run quirked-out madness once in a while, It's nice to get a varied, non-meta build like the one I made for the Thunderbolt.

[Nightshade24]

LOADED, on 13 July 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

-snip-

Excluding stock, stock+, and stock++ and alt.stock+ mechs.

What is your opinion on replicating stock mechs that are not in game? for instance making a Direwolf Widowmaker in game?
(2 er ppc, 2 large pulse laser (1 each arm), 3 er medium lasers (CT and head) and UAC 20 (right side torso) or say make the Kitfox W or A?

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Aww but the widowmaker is a unique custom direwolf, there's no stock widowmaker
recreating stock mechs out of existing mechs is a bit of a double edged sword.
For omnimechs like the kitfox it works pretty well. though, a kitfox with TT armor values 2 med and 2 large pulse with 10 heatsinks is utterly underperforming (a syndrom most stock mechs, even more clan stock mechs suffer from).
The powercreep and meta game is to far evolved to make room for most canon stockmechs. The game mechanics themself hit a lot of stockmechs equaly as hard (double armor values, ghostheat).
I think there is a line to recreate stockmechs. From acurate adder C config to a rifleman out of a firebrand (5 tons heavier) to urbanmech out of a firestarter (pre urbie ingame ofc)

[IraqiWalker]

Mazzyplz, on 13 July 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

if it was 3050 then tdr pilots in lore woulda taken the years to add XL or artemis to their rigs. what's so non canon about it?
what is this an iphone? do you void the warranty when you tweak it? one thing is stock and another thing is straight out of the package, you can also play the mech without setting up your weapon groups, more stock that way!!!

No, they really wouldn't since 99.99% of all of them are house pilots, and the faction decides if they want to upgrade a mech or not. They never upgrade mechs for a grunt. Maybe buy new ones to boost up their forces, but joe schmoe doesn't have a choice when it comes to the mech he pilots. Let alone trying to upgrade it. That might actually get him at least fired, since the mech isn't his, but the nation's.

the absolute rare few that own their own mech get to customize them, by spending a fortune.

[loopala]

Ah for the good old days of 3005 when most mechs were family owned and very few were still 100% stock. Salvage was king as far as what your mech carried. Ammo was scarce and expensive. A lance could hold a world and being deposested was a fate worse then death. Mechs were colbed together by techs with more guess work then real understanding of what they were working on.

That typed a run many what I call "super stock"(SS) mechs. Basically dhs a bit more arrmor very close to stock weapons. Right now working through the executioners. Pretty much drop a bit of mg ammo to bulk up the ct armor. Just move the armor around a bit and leave the weapon load out alone.
My favorite SS mech is the boars head. DHS move the armor and ammo around and go. Even with the XL it plays well just don't try to face tank. Keep moving and use that xl 400 speed to keep just out of their firing arc while poking with the mpls.
While there many stock mechs that just will not due in MWO there are a few that do quit well with a little help.
Drw prime dump the mpl and add dhs and armor for the weight.

The list goes on and on

[Nightshade24]

LOADED, on 14 July 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

Aww but the widowmaker is a unique custom direwolf, there's no stock widowmaker
recreating stock mechs out of existing mechs is a bit of a double edged sword.
For omnimechs like the kitfox it works pretty well. though, a kitfox with TT armor values 2 med and 2 large pulse with 10 heatsinks is utterly underperforming (a syndrom most stock mechs, even more clan stock mechs suffer from).
The powercreep and meta game is to far evolved to make room for most canon stockmechs. The game mechanics themself hit a lot of stockmechs equaly as hard (double armor values, ghostheat).
I think there is a line to recreate stockmechs. From acurate adder C config to a rifleman out of a firebrand (5 tons heavier) to urbanmech out of a firestarter (pre urbie ingame ofc)

technically the firebrand can be a rifleman... a super rifleman (unknown rifleman that appears to have so much weapons and ammo that it appears to NOT be the standard tonnage and is not the rifleman but a "Super rifleman" aka a larger one, it is not confirmed but it is seen in novels and stuff, specifically gray notons Rifleman the "legendkiller". ).

Also most people made an urbie out of the spider, the firestarter was better for the Hollander.

[SilentSooYun]

I run "Magic", my Catapult, as super-stock.

Lore-wise, it was captured from a Capellan raider-turned-defector during a disasterous attempt to save face (and his life) after the Fourth Succession War. It remained in my posession through my tour with the LCAF until my lance got mauled against the Combine in the War of 3039. Cycled back to New Avalon for R+R, in the spirit of cooperation my entire lance got a full overhaul by the NAIS using advanced tech prototypes to combat the Combine's new Mechs. Unfortunately, installation took longer than expected, and war ended before they could be cycled back to the front.

MWO-wise, it's obviously dedicated to it's role as a long-range support Mech, and has aged fairly well with it's maneuverability and optimised LRM loadout. Though I mourne the loss of one of it's lasers for a TAG, the TAG is absolutely necessary against ECM. It actually works out fairly well, as having four Mediums cause "Magic" to overheat very quickly in a scrum.

Edited by SilentSooYun, 18 July 2015 - 05:58 PM.

[loopala]

Next one to add to the list is the shadow cat prime. Have not had a lot of time to play but so far the stock shadow cat prime works. Good armor, ok weapons, maybe a little under gunned, very cool running. Only thing I think about changing is moving the ammo to the right arm with the gauss. A good scout sniper harraser.