14 replies to this topic

[Narcissistic Martyr]

So... flamers... they suck.

Their only use is for blinding people which PGI doesn't like and is taking away.

So... complete redo time.

I think we need to stop looking at a flamer as a constant fire weapon like a machine gun. My idea is to make the flamer act kind of like a short range hybrid between a laser, an LBX, and a clan PPC.

Basically turn it into a short range high intensity short duration plasma stream that does 2-3 damage to three adjacent sections and reduces heat dissipation by the equivalent of 1 DHS for 1 second after the flame stops. If they still aren't doing enough to make them desirable they should get bonus damage to internal structure as well. Recycle time should be relatively lengthy (2.5-3 seconds) to make immobilization impossible.

The clan version since it weighs half as much should do 2-3 damage to 2 sections instead of to three.

Finally I think the flamer should be freaking purple. Why? We're shooting high temperature plasma from the core at people and battletech uses hydrogen fusion engines. Since purple stars are really hot and made of hydrogen it makes a certain kind of sense. Also, it'd be BAD ASS!

I think this will give flamers a unique role in that they'd do decent but spread out damage at point blank range and reduce the amount of energy weapons and high caliber autocannons an enemy can fire if they're at higher heat levels without enabling stun locking or forcing them to shut down and without blinding people. In short it's everything we want a flamer to be with PGI still getting their way.

So, what do y'all think?

[Havyek]

IMO I'd like to see flamers act like a plasma discharge or 0.5 ton flamer.

We were actually talking about this earlier, I'd like to see the flamers do MORE heat to their target, BUT DO NOT STACK (so there's no bringing 12 flamers to stun lock someone). You SHOULD be able to overheat a 'Mech running 80%+ heat but not keep it overheated.

[Thumper3]

So, basically making them into inferno launchers?

Should have been how they were first handled anyway. the only thing the flamers as implemented are good for is infantry, and there's none of that in the game. Inferno launchers are designed to be used against mechs, so that's what we should have.

So yeah, needs to be ammo based though, short range slightly slow projectile with splash damage and duration. Low damage but it lasts, so get hit with one and it'll do 1-2 damage to 3 sections, but then it will do 1-2 damage again the next second, say 2-3 seconds duration......plus causing heat as well.

Sure, people will complain (they always do), and start fretting about lights boating them, but while they would then be usefull, I don't see a 6 Flamer Jenner being more dangerous after the changes either. And I personally would be more worried about a pack of AC20 Ravens than a pack of Flamer lights and those seem to be ok for everyone lol.

[SirNotlag]

Frankly I don't care what they do with the flamer as long as they get the damn thing to work and be an effective weapon. To all those people that say its an anti-infantry weapon, sure its so good of an anti-infantry weapon it caused them to go extinct back in 3047, and that's why there are no infantry in MWO.

[TheSilken]

Just make it shoot a projectile like a PPC, have it deal 2 damage per shot (and not effect several locations because that's cheap), generate 3 heat per shot (2 for IS), and apply 2 heat per shot to an enemy mech (up to a max of 24 heat added).

Edited by TheSilken, 14 July 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[Generic Internetter]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 13 July 2015 - 05:13 PM, said:

complete redo time.

Yup. Kinda.

Narcissistic Martyr, on 13 July 2015 - 05:13 PM, said:

So, what do y'all think?

The Flamer's purpose is to apply heat. That's the central concept. Changing into something completely different is basically pointless. Just increase the amount of heat it applies, and maybe make them 1 ton heavier (to prevent silly 5-flamer builds). Job done.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Generic Internetter, on 10 January 2016 - 06:51 PM, said:

The Flamer's purpose is to apply heat. That's the central concept. Changing into something completely different is basically pointless. Just increase the amount of heat it applies, and maybe make them 1 ton heavier (to prevent silly 5-flamer builds). Job done.

The flamer has 3 main jobs in TT.

1) It is very VERY effective against infantry squads and tanks

2) It can add heat to enemy mechs possibly making it difficult to fire all their weapons. However they only add 2 heat per flamer so unless your enemy was intentionally running quite hot you wouldn't do much.

3 Light stuff on fire to flush out hiding enemy units, create smoke clouds for your troops to get closer or cover retreats.

It's secondary function was to do damage.

You're proposal isn't necessarily bad. But PGI isn't going to change TT weights for components and PGI isn't going to allow mechs to be overheated by flamers.

What my proposal does is reinforce their secondary role as damage dealers while still letting them reduce the effectiveness of an enemy's cooling (by adding heat) without being able force a mech to overheat. In short it ticks every requirement PGI has made of flamers and makes them useful without being able to stun lock enemies while retaining the feel and role flamers had in TT against enemy mechs.

[SockSlayer]

So, assuming the flamer would have a cooldown as per suggestion, and everything else you mentioned was added in game, I would be ok with that, provided either the range was increased to 150m (both optimal and max), or optimal stays the same with max range being 150m.

Whatever happens, whether opinions differ on how it should be done, nearly everyone agrees something should be done. Would really like to use flamers again, they are next to no good right now.

Edited by Independence MK2, 10 January 2016 - 09:43 PM.

[Valar13]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 13 July 2015 - 05:13 PM, said:

So... flamers... they suck.

Their only use is for blinding people which PGI doesn't like and is taking away.

So... complete redo time.

I think we need to stop looking at a flamer as a constant fire weapon like a machine gun. My idea is to make the flamer act kind of like a short range hybrid between a laser, an LBX, and a clan PPC.

Basically turn it into a short range high intensity short duration plasma stream that does 2-3 damage to three adjacent sections and reduces heat dissipation by the equivalent of 1 DHS for 1 second after the flame stops. If they still aren't doing enough to make them desirable they should get bonus damage to internal structure as well. Recycle time should be relatively lengthy (2.5-3 seconds) to make immobilization impossible.

The clan version since it weighs half as much should do 2-3 damage to 2 sections instead of to three.

Finally I think the flamer should be freaking purple. Why? We're shooting high temperature plasma from the core at people and battletech uses hydrogen fusion engines. Since purple stars are really hot and made of hydrogen it makes a certain kind of sense. Also, it'd be BAD ***!

I think this will give flamers a unique role in that they'd do decent but spread out damage at point blank range and reduce the amount of energy weapons and high caliber autocannons an enemy can fire if they're at higher heat levels without enabling stun locking or forcing them to shut down and without blinding people. In short it's everything we want a flamer to be with PGI still getting their way.

So, what do y'all think?

It may have been said already but there aren't purple stars, the hottest are blue. The rest sounds good though.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Valar13, on 10 January 2016 - 10:04 PM, said:

It may have been said already but there aren't purple stars, the hottest are blue. The rest sounds good though.

Excellent! I love learning new things. Now I'm gonna go find out why there aren't any purple stars.

Thanks mate!

[Irishtoker]

Why is there all this talk about making sure flamers don't overheat mechs? To me, that seems like their primary purpose. It is a flamethrower, you are streaming Plasma generated heat at your foes...


If the heat generated is limited, the weapon becomes null.

Edited by Irishtoker, 11 January 2016 - 05:34 AM.

[TheArisen]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 11 January 2016 - 01:22 AM, said:

Excellent! I love learning new things. Now I'm gonna go find out why there aren't any purple stars.

Thanks mate!

Hydrogen itself actually burns in the ultraviolet range, basically, it'd be invisible to the human eye. The space shuttle with hydrogen fuel had an invisible flame at full thrust.

Hydrogen in it's plasma form is purple. That's why there aren't purple stars, because they are hydrogen gas & not plasma. That means our flamers actually should be purple, since we're shooting hydrogen plasma.

Edited by TheArisen, 12 January 2016 - 11:05 AM.

[TheArisen]

Irishtoker, on 11 January 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

Why is there all this talk about making sure flamers don't overheat mechs? To me, that seems like their primary purpose. It is a flamethrower, you are streaming Plasma generated heat at your foes...


If the heat generated is limited, the weapon becomes null.

Because game balance. It'd be intensely frustrating, exploitable by trolls, etc. Basically, not fun.

Also mechs have heat sinks efficient enough to allow the mech to function inside a volcano. Yes the plasma is hotter but again, we don't want exploitable flamers.

[Irishtoker]

TheArisen, on 12 January 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

Because game balance. It'd be intensely frustrating, exploitable by trolls, etc. Basically, not fun.

Also mechs have heat sinks efficient enough to allow the mech to function inside a volcano. Yes the plasma is hotter but again, we don't want exploitable flamers.

I'm just saying that I consider 0.7 damage and 1 point of generated heat underpowered. We can KO ourselves with override & thus over-heating. Where-as a flamer has restricted overall heat and damage generated...

balance is important. cant dispute that.

[TheArisen]

Irishtoker, on 16 January 2016 - 06:22 AM, said:

I'm just saying that I consider 0.7 damage and 1 point of generated heat underpowered. We can KO ourselves with override & thus over-heating. Where-as a flamer has restricted overall heat and damage generated...

balance is important. cant dispute that.

I very much agree that flamers need buffed. The thing is, it'd be pretty easy to make them troll weapons.