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Solution To The Deathball Problem


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#41 Lugh

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 05:24 AM

View PostKiiyor, on 16 July 2015 - 06:50 PM, said:


YOU SPEAK-A-MY-LANGUAGE.

Now, the game revolves around removing armour, and then a killing shot. That's it. Weapon Crits are a lucky thing - it means you didn't die from something that would normally have killed you.

A fleshed out crit system would be awesome. Damaged actuators making you limp or locking arms, damaged gyros affecting accelleration cursor speed and accuracy (or knockdown chances), damaged engines lowering speed and causing heat spikes, damaged lasers having variable beam lengths and heat spikes....

Some of the best games I have had were when the last few mechs were mauled and only had a weapon or two each - the nail biting suspense and frantic maneuvering was actually extended enough to be truly suspenseful.

"Right hip actuator damaged" kadunk as you can't twist anymore to that side.

"Gyro stabilizers compromised" as the mech starts hopping the cockpit up and down attempting to stabilize and failing.

"Targeting computer impediment" slowing locks, decreasing convergence etc.

#42 VATER

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 06:07 AM

You want to get rid of deathballing? Put in Reactorbreach with a neat explosion, damaging sourrounding mechs, like it was in MW4. OMG, I said it again, MW4 !!!

MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4....

#43 Lugh

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 06:15 AM

View PostVATER, on 17 July 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

You want to get rid of deathballing? Put in Reactorbreach with a neat explosion, damaging sourrounding mechs, like it was in MW4. OMG, I said it again, MW4 !!!

MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4....

Reactor Meltdown in 10, 9, 8 , 7 , 6, BOOM....
Awww were you expecting 5 more seconds to get clear?!?! Muwhahaha..

#44 MoonUnitBeta

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 07:04 AM

View PostEvan20k, on 16 July 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

So how do you encourage people to spread out in a game like MWO and not run around in a deathball?

Even when Arty strike was god's thunder fist raining down on groups, People still clumped together.

AOE isn't going to push people apart much. It's just punishing players for play how the game is designed to be played. The underlying flaw with the game is that it favors strength in numbers rather than strength in tactics and planning. There's a huge thing missing called role warfare that's has about the same depth as a plate.

But that's not going to change until PGI implements more meaningful objectives to change the game from an arms race to objective based.


Edit:
Kiiyor speaks the truth as well..
I posted before reading the rest of the posts, so when I came across this post it felt good to see others on the same track.

View PostKiiyor, on 16 July 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:


It's the nature of the game.

With lower health games like COD and CS, you can sort of be a one man army. 1v1's can be over almost instantaneously. One burst from a decent weapon can take out two dudes, and that's before grenades come into the picture.

In MWO, any 1v1 situation is a far more drawn out affair, and even with large discrepancies in weight, the outcome is rarely a foregone conclusion. DireWolf vs FireStarter? Hmmm... YLW vs Warhawk? Still uncertain...

Until you add another player into the mix. Two mechs vs one mech will almost always run in favour of the more numerous, unless they're up against a particularly skilled player. Two mechs vs 3 mechs is the same. 6 mechs vs 3 mechs, the same.

It's all about safety in numbers. TTK is at that point where 1v1's are still sort of drawn out, but any sort of focus fire is almost immediately lethal. The only way to avoid focus fire is to either be in a target rich environment, or to be the ones focusing.

I see all sorts of forum topics and post match whine fests about the MM being screwed or whatever, but most fights usually boil down to numbers: who had more pointing at fewer first. If you roll in a deathball, you'll almost ALWAYS be guaranteed to have the upper edge in the initial firefight. If you remove 30 tonnes of armour from the enemy at the start of the match with the loss of 5 or 10 on your side, the match is probably over, and no-one has even died yet.

The only time I ever see splits working, is if the enemy encountered is particularly timid and can be held up by a small force, or the layout of the ground gives an absolute advantage to the split force. Otherwise, it's deathballs all the way.

How do you fix that? With our current game modes, I'm not sure you can. I think it's just a natural evolution of battle tactics. If you add AOE, it will simply enlarge the deathball by X%, or people will ignore the AOE damage entirely - because to apply AOE damage, i'm assuming you will still need LOS to your target, and if you can see a deathball, chances are the entire deathball can see you.

True objective based gameplay is the way to go. Removing the turrets on Assault was a godsend for this. People may hate that mode, but it's really the only way to get truly tactical battles - even moreso than conquest, which can still be won by deathballing. I've seen innumerable matches where split forces can win the day.

I think Assault needs to evolve. Perhaps multiple objectives on the one map. How about we bring back the turrets, but have to capture a point to power them up, and another to power the enemy turrets down? Or to capture another point to call in air support? Or to close the gates to a city you are defending? Or to call in a dropship?

As soon as you add objectives that are worth splitting your force for, you'll see more split force tactics.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 17 July 2015 - 07:09 AM.


#45 L1f3H4ck

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 07:28 AM

TDK-7KMA

#46 TLBFestus

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 07:42 AM

Everything I read above this is too complicated. In general, we as players, are stupid. It needs to be kept simple.

With that in mind I propose this simple solution;

After the first minute of the game, anytime more than 5 mechs on the same team get within 100 meters of each other their reactors go critical and everyone explodes.

Simple, effective, and probably hilarious as he11 to watch.

#47 Khobai

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 07:44 AM

Want to fix deathball problem

Here is simple fix that worked before

Its called 8v8

#48 Xoco

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 10:17 AM

When people deathball up, I like to take my lights and flank 'em.


Deathballers usually all face in a single direction. As lights (and faster mediums), if I can flank 'em, I'm guaranteed a good amount of time when they cannot possibly turn around and start firing back. And if they do turn around, the are exposing their backs to the main battalions. That's a good thing for my team.

So I also vote map design as a solution. Make it so lighter mechs and circle around the enemies and flank 'em. As of right now, most maps make it damn near impossible to flank enemies without either taking a whole minute to do so, or exposing yourself. I think not making maps in pre-set elevation level might help. Everything walkable spaces in the game are some exact unit in height--make it so the terrain actually varies, and that should make traversing while keeping cover much easier for lights and fast mediums.

#49 Tombstoner

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 11:16 AM

View PostLordKnightFandragon, on 16 July 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

You encourage people to break up into smaller groups by making it viable. By lowering how much damage a single mech can output, so when you do break up into smaller groups you wont MELT upon first contact. So the deathball is not 100% absolutely needed to survive more then 2 seconds.

Secondly, add objectives that require you to break up the deathball.

Basically this... the "thinking mans shooter" needs to be about how do we flank them or get the upper hand positionally for rear armor shots. As it is the game is designed for the death ball since its the safest form of protection.

#50 Lugh

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 11:20 AM

View PostTombstoner, on 17 July 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Basically this... the "thinking mans shooter" needs to be about how do we flank them or get the upper hand positionally for rear armor shots. As it is the game is designed for the death ball since its the safest form of protection.

Double the armor value again. And done.

Youve got 4x the firepower of TT with only double the armor.. double it ONE MORE TIME. And profit.

#51 Tombstoner

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 11:35 AM

View PostLugh, on 17 July 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

Double the armor value again. And done.

Youve got 4x the firepower of TT with only double the armor.. double it ONE MORE TIME. And profit.

No the game needs a system over layed onto "skill" based targeting. That lets players control the probability of a shot hitting or missing. weapons are incredibly too accurate. the only reason the games lasts as long as it does is damage drop off.

#52 Uncl Munkeh

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 11:51 AM

mine fields... nuff said.

#53 patataman

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 12:52 PM

View PostVATER, on 17 July 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

You want to get rid of deathballing? Put in Reactorbreach with a neat explosion, damaging sourrounding mechs, like it was in MW4. OMG, I said it again, MW4 !!!

MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4MW4....


Yes, please, i'd love to stackpole the enemy death ball. In an urbanmech for proper kamikazing :D





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