23 replies to this topic

[Paigan]

After mastering my SHC I turned half-heartedly to the ACH and noticed:
All those variants and omnipods offer almost no variability at all.

- You almost always equip ECM
- You almost always go for the OP laser quirks
- It can't really equip even the smallest of ACs and a single MG is worth s***.

So the whole mech basically boils down to:

6E vs 4E 2M

(not saying you have to always equip 2 missiles in 50% of the builds, it's just the potential hardpoint combinations)

Or MAYBE, just MAYBE, you trade one E for an AMS but that's more like an exotic theoretic thing...


I got it anyway because of the Gladiator pack, but the mech itself is kind of dull when it comes to omnipods.

[Kain Demos]

Stopped reading at OP.

[Paigan]

Kain Demos, on 27 July 2015 - 01:36 AM, said:

Stopped reading at OP.

Cute

[MechWarrior849305]

Don't like it? - Don't play it, simple.
Or use firestarters instead, they give you way more opportunities to fit your style /sarcasm

[Hit the Deck]

Well, that ACH-C LT offers -5% to pulse laser heat gen and this makes ECM not mandatory because there's a good alternative.

It has low pod space so basically it's restricted to lasers and 2M just like you said. Offering more Omnipod options doesn't solve the low available tonnage problem. Thankfully there's a variety of laser builds, e.g. 6ERSL, 5SPL, 4ERML, 2ERLL, or some combinations thereof.

[Paigan]

DuoAngel, on 27 July 2015 - 01:46 AM, said:

Don't like it? - Don't play it, simple.
Or use firestarters instead, they give you way more opportunities to fit your style /sarcasm

Wow, logical thinking is not your thing, is it?

What if I told you I DO like it but it objectively offers dramatically less options than all other clan mechs, which is kind of sad, especially when liking it?

Or on your level: "Don't like/understand the thread? - Don't post in it, simple."

Edited by Paigan, 27 July 2015 - 01:50 AM.

[MechWarrior849305]

Paigan, on 27 July 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

Wow, logical thinking is not your thing, is it?
Or on your level: "Don't like/understand the thread? - Don't post in it, simple."

Wow, logical thinking is not your thing, is it?
Or on your level:"Don't like/understand posts in your thread? - Don't start a thread, simple"

Solved

[Hit the Deck]

Hmm when I think about it, ACH could also use MGs build just like the SHC but we already have MG-SCat so PGI probably would not give us one.

3M and lasers would be too hot on this Cheetah. 4M is workable but low on ammo.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 27 July 2015 - 07:23 AM.

[Tarogato]

I would tend to agree. I don't own them... but I only ever see 6x SPL builds on it. You could do ERSL... you could do MPL, you could do ERML, you could do ERLL, you could do 2x missile + 4x lasers... you could even do ERPPC... but none of those combinations seem to be anywhere near as effective as 6x SPL, so why bother? I hate to say it, but... I think it might need some hefty quirks to make it more versatile. In regards to unique omnipods,

Quirk the -A slightly for missiles
Quirk the -B for ballistic cooldown (like... 30+% since it only has one hardpoint)
Quirk the -C for nothing... remove the current quirks, it doesn't need them.
Quirk the -Prime for ER's.
Quirk the Mist Lynx so it can compete. Otherwise it has teh sadz. ='[

[Cyborne Elemental]

That is the problem with all clan mechs with locked equipment.

You lose alot of choice, and with the limited tonnage lights have to play with, that choice gets even smaller for viability of builds.

It gets to be the same way with heavier mechs too, where you get locked into a handful of builds that actually work, but there is a little more room to work with.

[El Bandito]

Paigan, on 27 July 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

After mastering my SHC I turned half-heartedly to the ACH and noticed:
All those variants and omnipods offer almost no variability at all.

- You almost always equip ECM
- You almost always go for the OP laser quirks
- It can't really equip even the smallest of ACs and a single MG is worth s***.

So the whole mech basically boils down to:

6E vs 4E 2M

Its a bloody 30 ton mech. Of course there is very little option in terms of ballistics and any big amount of missiles. Common sense to boat lasers to be effective.

Just look at other 30 ton mechs such as the Spider. You want variety, you pilot heavier mechs.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 July 2015 - 03:31 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Uh... pretty much all of the IS lights Firestarter, and RavenSpider all run some combination of lasers+missiles.

Yes you can AC20 raven 4x and 4SRM4 oxide but if you want to do that Adder and Kit Fox exist. Seriously though what do you expect to run with like 8 tons of pod space once you max armor? 1 UAC2? Oh... oh... I get it... you want it to have a bunch of MG to pair with your cERML so you don't have to concern yourself with heat quite so much. Because the AC isn't powerful enough in a light vs light duel.

[Paigan]

Yeah okay, it's a 30 ton Mech, so it won't have the combination possibilities of a SCR, TBR or DWF.
Understood.

But still.
For example the SHC has very limited hardpoints, but still it can create a wide range of omnipod combinations:

Variants with ECM:
3E (lower arm)
3E 1M (lower arm)
3E 2M

2E 1M (lower arm, missile quirk)
2E 2M (lower arm, missile quirk)
2E 3M (missile quirk)

2B 1E
2B 1M

1B 1E 1M (lower arm, missile quirk)
1B 1E 2M (missile quirk)
1B 2E 1M
1B 2E (lower arm)

Plus some more with Bs or AMS instead of ECM in the LT.



Again, the ACH in comparison:
6E
4E 2M
...
uhm. That's more less it. Maybe without EMC 7E or 5E 2M or maybe something with AMS or so, but that's about it.


That IS a little dull, isn't it?

Edited by Paigan, 27 July 2015 - 03:52 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Even with more hardpoint options, what could you possibly do with it other than boat small/med lasers and add ECM? It only has 8 tons of pod space.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Well ac-2 class weapons are not a good choice on any weight mech.
MG's are underpowered, and that needs to change.

Leaves you SRM's, or heavier weapons that you will in no way have enough DHS to control.

[Paigan]

Widowmaker1981, on 27 July 2015 - 03:49 AM, said:

Even with more hardpoint options, what could you possibly do with it other than boat small/med lasers and add ECM? It only has 8 tons of pod space.

Hm, for example:
- having Missiles in the STs instead of in the arms (e.g. as a compelling alternative to the ECM LT)
- this also means having 3 or 4 missiles (albeit tiny ones, admitted)
- Having 2 x 2 MGs in the arms and quirks for them.
- Maybe a pod with AMS plus another weapon hardpoint

[Widowmaker1981]

Paigan, on 27 July 2015 - 04:01 AM, said:

Hm, for example:
- having Missiles in the STs instead of in the arms (e.g. as a compelling alternative to the ECM LT)
- this also means having 3 or 4 missiles (albeit tiny ones, admitted)
- Having 2 x 2 MGs in the arms and quirks for them.
- Maybe a pod with AMS plus another weapon hardpoint

Doesnt have the tonnage for a full missile load, because ammo.

MGs suck.

The mech never carried MGs anyway, so PGI would have to completely invent omnipods.

Did i mention MGs suck?

Who needs AMS on a 142 kph mech with ECM and Radar Dep?

Edit: main point is we knew exactly what hardpoints it would get, and which it might get in future, because PGI follows lore builds exactly.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 27 July 2015 - 04:08 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

The config-D will give you a single M-hardpoint on each arm, so... 3SRM4+2ERSL or 4SRM4.

Oops I forgot that we already have M hp on the arms.... Unfortunately no cookie for you....

Edited by Hit the Deck, 27 July 2015 - 04:13 AM.

[Paigan]

Widowmaker1981, on 27 July 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

Doesnt have the tonnage for a full missile load, because ammo.

MGs suck.

The mech never carried MGs anyway, so PGI would have to completely invent omnipods.

Did i mention MGs suck?

Who needs AMS on a 142 kph mech with ECM and Radar Dep?

Edit: main point is we knew exactly what hardpoints it would get, and which it might get in future, because PGI follows lore builds exactly.

Don't mix up design of omni pods and the (current) state of some weapons.
MGs could very well be buffed by the end of the year or they could be quirked to not suck.
Other mechs have variants with MGs, independent of how MGs suck or not.

Also:
You can perfectly equip 3-4 LRM5 or some SSRM2 or SRM2 or SRM4 and some small lasers with 8 ton pod space.
The MLX even has only 6 tons and can create more variations than the ACH.

Again, don't mix up viability (which is subjective anyway) of builds and the designwise potential of being able to do them in the first place.
All other clan mechs can implement a variety of builds, even the MLX, so why not the ACH?
That's my whole point.


Admitted the hardpoints were known before.
That doesn't mean the analysis of them being unusual "dull" is wrong.

[El Bandito]

Paigan, on 27 July 2015 - 03:47 AM, said:

Yeah okay, it's a 30 ton Mech, so it won't have the combination possibilities of a SCR, TBR or DWF.
Understood.

But still.
For example the SHC has very limited hardpoints, but still it can create a wide range of omnipod combinations:

Scat also has twice as much pod space to use the omnipods. How unrealistic of you to compare a fast Light with a Medium?

Edited by El Bandito, 27 July 2015 - 04:37 AM.