40 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Hit the Deck, on 17 July 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

It actually jumps amazingly well just not with "fast thrust".

No, it doesn't, not 8 tons well.

[Hit the Deck]

WM Quicksilver, on 17 July 2015 - 10:39 PM, said:

No, it doesn't, not 8 tons well.

So how well do you want it to be able to jump? We aren't talking about the thrust/kick/acceleration here.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Hit the Deck, on 17 July 2015 - 10:44 PM, said:

So how well do you want it to be able to jump? We aren't talking about the thrust/kick/acceleration here.

20-25% more height, so around (or a little less than) twice its height with enough fuel to land without hurting its legs. In other words enough to get up the wall of Canyon completely (without hugging the terrain to slide up) and maybe have a sliver of fuel left.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 17 July 2015 - 10:56 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

WM Quicksilver, on 17 July 2015 - 10:51 PM, said:

20-25% more height, so around (or a little less than) twice its height with enough fuel to land without hurting its legs. In other words enough to get up the wall of Canyon completely (without hugging the terrain to slide up) and maybe have a sliver of fuel left.

It can already clear the Canyon wall (it was even better before the last adjustment because Paul nerfed Class I fuel), just not those near the edge of the map because they are very tall.

MWO Executioner can already reach a height of 34-44m (according to the coordinate, I don't know why the range is so big) with its 4JJs and running start and that is far higher than the TT dictates (4 * half level = 4 * 6 m = 24 m).

Edited by Hit the Deck, 17 July 2015 - 11:09 PM.

[Ultimax]

Hit the Deck, on 17 July 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

It actually jumps amazingly well just not with "fast thrust".

It's not 8 tons of value.


I get just as much realistic value out of 2 tons from 1x JJ I have on my Dire Wolf - except I also get to bring the best firepower in the game.


I don't need to slowly fly over walls on Canyon network (not for 8 tons anyway).

I know where the ramps are, I know where my team and where the opfor are likely to be headed.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 17 July 2015 - 11:12 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Hit the Deck, on 17 July 2015 - 11:08 PM, said:

It can already clear the Canyon wall (it was better pre last adjustment because Paul nerfed the Class I fuel), just not those on near the edge of the map because they are very tall.

MWO Executioner can already reach a height of 34-44m (according to the coordinate, I don't know why the range is so big) with its 4JJs and running start and that is far higher than the TT dictates (4 * half level = 4 * 6 m = 24 m).

It can clear certain canyon walls, but if you are only able to clear some terrain features it doesn't seem like it is worth 8 tons does it? I don't really care how high it went in TT, because this isn't TT nor are maps like TT.
The day that I contemplate whether I wanted JJs there or more weapons will be the day they are balanced, and currently I'd much rather have 1 JJ and 6 more tons to play with.

[Hit the Deck]

WM Quicksilver, on 17 July 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

It can clear certain canyon walls, but if you are only able to clear some terrain features it doesn't seem like it is worth 8 tons does it? I don't really care how high it went in TT, because this isn't TT nor are maps like TT.
The day that I contemplate whether I wanted JJs there or more weapons will be the day they are balanced, and currently I'd much rather have 1 JJ and 6 more tons to play with.

As far as I have tried, it can clear all of those walls in the inside portion of the map, just not those on the periphery. Have you take a look how high those walls on the inside portion are? They are twice as tall or more the height of your EXE (eyeballing)!



What if those walls are even higher? Do you still want to say that "This is not TT so I want to be able to clear those walls!"?

I think JJs in MWO are already implemented well enough, but I'd like far bigger thrust.

Do I personally think that taking JJs on Assault 'Mech worth the cost? Yes if they had bigger thrust for the same performance. Our current JJs is somewhat lackluster but they are okayish enough. Thankfully Clan hardware are lighter and smaller.

[Deathlike]

To the OP, his proper name is "Mr. Gargles Sr.".

WM Quicksilver, on 17 July 2015 - 10:51 PM, said:

20-25% more height, so around (or a little less than) twice its height with enough fuel to land without hurting its legs. In other words enough to get up the wall of Canyon completely (without hugging the terrain to slide up) and maybe have a sliver of fuel left.

Hoverjets(tm) said:

I got a buff guise. I can hover moar than before! Amirite?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Hit the Deck, on 17 July 2015 - 11:32 PM, said:

As far as I have tried, it can clear all of those walls in the inside portion of the map, just not those on the periphery. Have you take a look how high those walls on the inside portion are? They are twice as tall or more the height of your EXE (eyeballing)!

It is funny that you say that, because you can't get up that wall unless you abuse the terrain sliding glitch when you jump. That is when you run into terrain and you slide (in this case upward) in a direction. Try jumping without touching the wall at all and youll notice a significant difference in height reached. Or better yet, just jump near the wall without trying to jump on top of that and notice the difference in height.

[Hit the Deck]

WM Quicksilver, on 17 July 2015 - 11:55 PM, said:

It is funny that you say that, because you can't get up that wall unless you abuse the terrain sliding glitch when you jump. That is when you run into terrain and you slide (in this case upward) in a direction. Try jumping without touching the wall at all and youll notice a significant difference in height reached. Or better yet, just jump near the wall without trying to jump on top of that and notice the difference in height.

Dude, I'm the one who created this thread if you still remember and you were also there.

You need a running start if you want to fully use the JJs because in MWO, JJs performance depends on your speed unlike TT. Did you try to jump over those walls with a run? Or from standing still?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Hit the Deck, on 18 July 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

Dude, I'm the one who created this thread if you still remember and you were also there.

You need a running start if you want to fully use the JJs because in MWO, JJs performance depends on your speed unlike TT. Did you try to jump over those walls with a run? Or from standing still?

Both, and the fact is I can get higher if I run full speed into the terrain and "slide" up the terrain. In fact I can get up the periphery walls if a slide on them. Whereas without sliding on the terrain I only get about 60% the height. Speed has nothing to do with jump height, at all, test it in the bottom of canyon with F9 on. You'll notice no noticeable difference in height reached (which for me was around 30m). Guess how tall the interior Canyon walls are? Around 40-45m.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 18 July 2015 - 12:12 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Ah, okay, now I understand what you mean with the "terrain sliding glitch". I have to tried it out to see how much I can get without touching anything.

[Hit the Deck]

WM Quicksilver, on 18 July 2015 - 12:07 AM, said:

Both, and the fact is I can get higher if I run full speed into the terrain and "slide" up the terrain. In fact I can get up the periphery walls if a slide on them. Whereas without sliding on the terrain I only get about 60% the height. Speed has nothing to do with jump height, at all, test it in the bottom of canyon with F9 on. You'll notice no noticeable difference in height reached (which for me was around 30m). Guess how tall the interior Canyon walls are? Around 40-45m.

Thanks for pointing this out to me and it seems your estimation is correct that the 'mech can reach 60% of it's height without sliding! That puts the max height about 24m or exactly like smurfy says (also the TT height). All this time I never thought about this.

About the "sliding" thing, I think it's not a glitch but a 'Mech jumping should behave like so when it hits the wall because the JJ thrust is diagonal, or in other words, an intended and correct feature by PGI.


*the angle is exaggerated

This also makes your initial speed when hitting the wall affect the max vertical height you can reach.

[Deathlike]

WM Quicksilver, on 17 July 2015 - 11:55 PM, said:

It is funny that you say that, because you can't get up that wall unless you abuse the terrain sliding glitch when you jump. That is when you run into terrain and you slide (in this case upward) in a direction. Try jumping without touching the wall at all and youll notice a significant difference in height reached. Or better yet, just jump near the wall without trying to jump on top of that and notice the difference in height.

*insert History guy meme*

"MWO JJ Physics"

It is hilarious and I know exactly what you're talking about.

It's easier to see happen with a Light mech, but you can most certainly do this in a Dire Wolf just as well (well, you'll most likely carry 1 Hoverjet™ on those).

Edited by Deathlike, 18 July 2015 - 02:38 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Deathlike, on 18 July 2015 - 02:37 AM, said:

*insert History guy meme*

"MWO JJ Physics"

It is hilarious and I know exactly what you're talking about.

It's easier to see happen with a Light mech, but you can most certainly do this in a Dire Wolf just as well (well, you'll most likely carry 1 Hoverjet™ on those).

So..., what do you wanna say about "MWO JJ Physics"? That 'Mechs JJing should not slide upwards when they are hitting a wall because friction holds them in place?

[Joseph Mallan]

Hit the Deck, on 17 July 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

Yes, along with the engine.


PGI should've put the single DHS on LT instead of RT. As for the free tonnage, it depends on how good you implement JJs and MASC so people feel that the fixed equipment are worth the trade off instead of ditching them (or the 'Mech) so they can just bring more gunz!

Do you know how many solders have better ideas for how their equipment should be? Remember these vehicles are built by Non Combatants for combat. Dumb things are always done when this is the case.

[Hit the Deck]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 July 2015 - 02:52 AM, said:

Do you know how many solders have better ideas for how their equipment should be? Remember these vehicles are built by Non Combatants for combat. Dumb things are always done when this is the case.

Looking at all of the available variants, they always have 1 DHS on RT. Maybe PGI based their decision on this fact? It prevents us from putting a single UAC/20 or dual UAC/10 on the RT, but thankfully it's not a big deal....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Hit the Deck, on 18 July 2015 - 02:48 AM, said:

So..., what do you wanna say about "MWO JJ Physics"? That 'Mechs JJing should not slide upwards when they are hitting a wall because friction holds them in place?

Well it isn't just related to JJs. You can see this when someone bumps against terrain while moving at the right angle, it makes them slide.

The best place to test this used to be the edge of citadel in the water. If you walk backwards into it at an angle it can actually move you faster backwards than if you had been just walking backwards straight. There are other occasions where you will see a mech "slide" against terrain features, it just depends on your angle and the object. It is really annoying because it makes the mech move faster than you expect and can throw off your aim sometimes.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 17 July 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

If it actually jumped amazingly well and with fast thrust, I wouldn't mind.


But it doesn't.


The 8 tons of JJs in terms of benefit are simply not worth the total tonnage invested, and I don't think they will ever be worth it in this game.


I don't need removing them to be the only solution, but I don't think a JJ improvement to actually justify 8 full tons is on the horizon - at which point the JJs need to be removable to a degree or I'll simply play other mechs.

so, you gave the correct answer at the end...simply play other mechs.
It's like playing a Jagermech and complaining it has ballistics, because of laser vomit.

[Deathlike]

Hit the Deck, on 18 July 2015 - 02:48 AM, said:

So..., what do you wanna say about "MWO JJ Physics"? That 'Mechs JJing should not slide upwards when they are hitting a wall because friction holds them in place?

When you hit certain terrain features at a certain angle, you momentarily accelerate like crazy into that direction.

It's harder to explain w/o showing the finer points in JJ-related craziness through a light mech.