20 replies to this topic

[ThirtyOughtSix]

When quirks say "PPC Velocity: 40%" does this extend to both ERPPC and PPC?

[ProfessorD]

No. Quirks of that type are specific to the exact weapon named. If the quirk applies to the PPC, it will say PPC. If it applies to the ER PPC, it will say ER PPC.

[Top Leliel]

My experience with the Shadowhawk 2K is that its PPC perks work for both PPC and ER PPC. I can't speak for other chassis though.

[Brizna]

Same applies to BJ3

I think this is a general trend: PPC quirks apply to ERPPC unlike most other weapon systems.

Do ERPPC work for PPCs too?

[jss78]

Brizna, on 22 July 2015 - 12:07 AM, said:

Same applies to BJ3

I think this is a general trend: PPC quirks apply to ERPPC unlike most other weapon systems.

Do ERPPC work for PPCs too?

Interesting. I tested in Mechlab with both BJ-3 and SHD-2K, and can confirm that the PPC quirks show up for ER-PPC too.

Is this intended, or a bug/feature? I don't own any normal PPCs, so I can't test in Testing Grounds whether the speed/cooldown quirks actually work in-game for ER-PPCs.

The reverse appears to not be the case. I tried putting PPCs in PNT-10K and CDA-3C in Mechlab, and the huge ER-PPC quirks don't show for PPCs.

[Brizna]

If it's a bug it's a long standing bug. I reported it to PGI like half year ago, no answer back and of course no fix, and we had a major quirk pass in between my report and now that changed BJ3 quirks (or so I recall).

As far as I know it's working as intended, ERPPCs are PPCs after all, just like medium lasers and medium pulse lasers are lasers.

* Btw I did conduct testing in Testing Grounds today, so it's not just a bug in mechlab, cooldown PPC quirk worked for ERPPC for BJ3.

[Torezu]

They work like all other quirks. PPCs are a weapon class, like lasers. Only if the quirk specifically says ER PPC or Medium Pulse Laser, for example, does it apply only to that specific weapon type. Basically, weapons are divided into categories with sub-categories, all of which can have clan or no (IS) designations:

Ballistic
- Gauss
- AC/# or UAC/# or LB-#X AC
- Machine Guns

Energy
- PPC
sub- ER PPC
- Laser
sub- [size] [pulse] Laser

Missile
- LRM [size] or SRM [size] or SSRM [size]

Then there are cooldown, heat generation, spread for missiles and LB ACs, range, projectile speed for missiles and ballistics, etc., etc., which can all apply to whole categories, sub-categories, or specific weapons.

Edited by Torezu, 28 July 2015 - 09:26 AM.

[Boulangerie]

Torezu, on 28 July 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

They work like all other quirks. PPCs are a weapon class, like lasers. Only if the quirk specifically says ER PPC or Medium Pulse Laser, for example, does it apply only to that specific weapon type. Basically, weapons are divided into categories with sub-categories, all of which can have clan or no (IS) designations:

Ballistic
- Gauss
- AC/# or UAC/# or LB-#X AC
- Machine Guns

Energy
- PPC
sub- ER PPC
- Laser
sub- [size] [pulse] Laser

Missile
- LRM [size] or SRM [size] or SSRM [size]

Then there are cooldown, heat generation, spread for missiles and LB ACs, range, projectile speed for missiles and ballistics, etc., etc., which can all apply to whole categories, sub-categories, or specific weapons.

So when you say this, does this mean an ER LL will get the perks of a LL as well?

Ex. CN9-AL has pretty good perks for LL, do these also apply to the ERLL? That is a subset of the LL similar to ERPPC being a subset of the PPC.

EDIT: This was my post prior to learning how this worked. See my post later on in this page for clarification.

Edited by Boulangerie, 11 June 2016 - 03:53 PM.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Boulangerie, on 28 July 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

So when you say this, does this mean an ER LL will get the perks of a LL as well?

Ex. CN9-AL has pretty good perks for LL, do these also apply to the ERLL? That is a subset of the LL similar to ERPPC being a subset of the PPC.

No, because a Large Laser is itself just a subset of Laser.

The perk heirarchy works like:

Energy>Laser>LL
Energy>Laser>ERLL

Energy>PPC>ERPPC

Conceivably there should be quirks for normal PPCs in specific too although I don't have any mechs with regular-PPC-only perks.

[Raso]

So with the PPC/ERPPC quirks working as they do are there any instances where down grading to a standard PPC would actually produce more heat than with a quirked out ERPPC?

[Boulangerie]

vnlk65n, on 29 July 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

No, because a Large Laser is itself just a subset of Laser.

The perk heirarchy works like:

Energy>Laser>LL
Energy>Laser>ERLL

Energy>PPC>ERPPC

Conceivably there should be quirks for normal PPCs in specific too although I don't have any mechs with regular-PPC-only perks.

yes, I'm not sure how they would specify that they were referring to the quirk applying to regular ppc only and not the category of Ppcs in general.

[Chados]

One wonders why anyone would carry PPC over ER PPC on a K2 Catapult! I suppose the heat generation is one problem but chain fire might help with that.

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

Torezu, on 28 July 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

They work like all other quirks. PPCs are a weapon class, like lasers. Only if the quirk specifically says ER PPC or Medium Pulse Laser, for example, does it apply only to that specific weapon type. Basically, weapons are divided into categories with sub-categories, all of which can have clan or no (IS) designations:

Ballistic
- Gauss
- AC/# or UAC/# or LB-#X AC
- Machine Guns

Energy
- PPC
sub- ER PPC
- Laser
sub- [size] [pulse] Laser

Missile
- LRM [size] or SRM [size] or SSRM [size]

Then there are cooldown, heat generation, spread for missiles and LB ACs, range, projectile speed for missiles and ballistics, etc., etc., which can all apply to whole categories, sub-categories, or specific weapons.

especially about the ppc/erppc statement, where do you have that info from?I mean when there is a seperate quirk
for large laser why shoudnt be one for ppc for its own? Because one coud think there are
so many laser variants it makes sense to have a global Laser quirk.
But with 2 weapon variations of the ppc one coud think a simplyfication isnt needed.
Dont know if you understand what i mean but with ErLL and LL its kinda exactly the same situation.
So please tell me how you got that information?Did you actually tested it out?
And how do i test it correctly to see it by myself, cause i use to do so to be 100% on the safe side

[Void Angel]

ThirtyOughtSix, on 17 July 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

When quirks say "PPC Velocity: 40%" does this extend to both ERPPC and PPC?

ProfessorD, on 17 July 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

No. Quirks of that type are specific to the exact weapon named. If the quirk applies to the PPC, it will say PPC. If it applies to the ER PPC, it will say ER PPC.

Actually, that's not quite true. PPC quirks apply to all PPCs, but ERPPC quirks apply only to ERPPCs. Think of the "PPC" quirks as being akin to the general "Energy weapon" quirks. I believe this was done to compensate for the PPC class no longer being accounted as a "ballistic" weapon for the purposes of velocity quirks.

You can now see in the game's mechlab which quirks apply to what weapons - so you really don't need to test in-match unless you believe there is a bug.

[Boulangerie]

shr84, on 11 June 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

especially about the ppc/erppc statement, where do you have that info from?I mean when there is a seperate quirk
for large laser why shoudnt be one for ppc for its own? Because one coud think there are
so many laser variants it makes sense to have a global Laser quirk.
But with 2 weapon variations of the ppc one coud think a simplyfication isnt needed.
Dont know if you understand what i mean but with ErLL and LL its kinda exactly the same situation.
So please tell me how you got that information?Did you actually tested it out?
And how do i test it correctly to see it by myself, cause i use to do so to be 100% on the safe side

When you are in the mechlab, you can hover your mouse over the equipment and see which quirks apply to a weapon at the bottom of the popup window. You will see that if a mech has +40% PPC velocity, it will show up on ERPPCs.

Your example isn't quite the same, because "PPC" is the weapon type, as well as the name. A better example for you wouldn't be to compare LL and ERLL, but to compare "Laser quirk" vs. "ERLL quirk".

[Void Angel]

Void Angel, on 11 June 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure I JUST said that.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

As others have stated above me^

I am 100% totally guestimate that quirks for PPC is a blanket statement for all PPC type weapons. This includes both PPC and ERPPC.

While ERPPC is specifically for ERPPC weapons.

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

Boulangerie, on 11 June 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

When you are in the mechlab, you can hover your mouse over the equipment and see which quirks apply to a weapon at the bottom of the popup window. You will see that if a mech has +40% PPC velocity, it will show up on ERPPCs.

Your example isn't quite the same, because "PPC" is the weapon type, as well as the name. A better example for you wouldn't be to compare LL and ERLL, but to compare "Laser quirk" vs. "ERLL quirk".

ah ok, you see this in mechlab.Then it seems one can be sure about this info

[YoMama84]

Has anybody ever noticed that the ER PPCs produce to much heat? They're rated for 14 heat per shot but when you actually use them in the game they produce 20 heat. This is a HUGE draw back for them.

[Boulangerie]

YoMama84, on 21 August 2016 - 12:09 AM, said:

Has anybody ever noticed that the ER PPCs produce to much heat? They're rated for 14 heat per shot but when you actually use them in the game they produce 20 heat. This is a HUGE draw back for them.

The heat bar in game is a percentage of your total Heat capacity. I don't have all of the numbers memorized, but you gain more heat capacity the more Heat sinks you install. Therefore, it's still producing 14 heat, but that is 20% of your total heat.