64 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

A fast light mech with the idiocy that is ECM and firepower which rivals that of several mediums (especially IS mediums)...wheew it being Tier 1 came as a TOTAL surprise to me. I would never have thought that.

[Mcgral18]

Averen, on 19 July 2015 - 10:24 PM, said:

Thanks, so it's 2 shoulder laser with ecm or 3 otherwise. I don't think the additional laser is worth it, tho: Clan laser have more concentrated damage in less guns (think 2ERML = 3ML), and even a solo ECM shield is very usefull for fast mechs and skirmisher.

Not sure why you're comparing SPL to MPL, tho: You can just go 4 CERMPL, that's 2 points of damage more than 5 MPL with afair 50% additional range at two less tons. And range is (i've got all three Firestarter) worth a lot. Just a minimum more heat per damage, but that should be easy to compensate. Generally expecting lighter laser, at least in the lower body parts, since they leave more room for DHS while still provide as much or more damage than IS counterparts.

Do not underestimate that this mech will always be better at shooting over ridges than a raven if you want to, while having a safe XL. Won't even show his torso, only the two high shoulders and the upper part of his cockpit. A raven at least needs to show half his bulky torso to peak. And that's while thereotically having all the advantages of an FS' hitboxes.

If these hitboxes are even halfway decent, then it's gonna be far better than a raven and firestarter combined. Never underestimate an ECM, it's incredibly usefull on fast mechs. Can't believe the stuff i got away with in one of the worst raven variants with a small XL. Solo'd timbers.

Because heat.


cSPLs are half the heat of cMPLs and cERMLs.


6 (for 36 damage and 18 heat) compares to 4 ERMLs at 28 damage and 24 heat

5 ERMLs for 30 heat? A tad excessive. Heat capacity will only be 56.896 when mastered. An alpha would run you over 50% heat.

4 cMPLs (taking the full pod space, you'd need to run an empty arm to mount ECM, sword and board the lasers) runs at 32 damage for 24 heat. Still worse than the cSPLs, for a tad under double the range.

2 ERMLs for poking? 14 damage? Better than nothing, but nothing extraordinary.

[Greenjulius]

Viges, on 19 July 2015 - 10:54 PM, said:

2 meds on top + 4 smalls in hands

My exact first build. The 2 ERML will provide some pokey fire while the 4xERSL will be used for scalpel work. 3xDHS to help cool it down a bit, backed up by ECM. Full alpha of 34 damage is very respecable and more heat efficient than most builds.

ERSL are basically made for this mech. Why not take advantage of them?

Edited by Greenjulius, 20 July 2015 - 12:41 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Wow, its not even out yet, and the wee-wee's come aporing!

So IS players really got used to having lights, where the Clans had none (The mistlynx and kitfox aren't lights, more like fast moving targets for target practice), so now clans finaly get a descent mech light that can do what most of the IS lights are allready doing, and its OP before it steps off the production line..

LOL..

IS wee-wees, you crack me up..

P.S.

Now, finally, thau shall know the fear now shared by every clan assoult when it sees a firestarter aproaching.. Enjoy IS... this is your doom!

Edited by Vellron2005, 20 July 2015 - 12:49 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Mcgral18, on 19 July 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

4 cMPLs (taking the full pod space, you'd need to run an empty arm to mount ECM, sword and board the lasers) runs at 32 damage for 24 heat. Still worse than the cSPLs, for a tad under double the range.

I think I'll rather try 3 cMPLs in the torso mounts, stripped arms and as many extra heatsinks as that buys me.

[Joseph Mallan]

Alistair Winter, on 19 July 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

And the version with 7 equipped energy weapons.

Edit: Alan Rickman <3

So many Good Wolf Clan Patterns. And they went with that...
Dude...

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 20 July 2015 - 01:26 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

You know... I think i might end up buying my first Clan mech when the Cheetah gets released.
.
.
.
I'm not talking about the Cheetah, oh no no no.
I'll get a SkillCrow with as many SSRMs i can jam into it.

[Lily from animove]

not tier 1, but finally a clan light as the Is has:

fast, and many E hardpoints with some in the Torso.
But it still has the issue that the clan lasers are a lot less heatefficient compared to IS lasers. And this will give it still a massive heat issue over is lights.

and only 30t instead of 35t. it's basically an inferior FS.
t2 at best

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 July 2015 - 01:31 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

You elite players will have to educate me a bit.

6xIS MLs do 30 damage and cause 24 heat. Cooldown is 3 seconds, duration is 0.9 seconds, range is 270 meters.
4xCERMLs do 28 damage and cause 24 heat. Cooldown is 3 seconds, duration is 1.15 seconds, range is 405 meters.

Now, I realize Firestarters have some good energy quirks. For medium lasers, the FS9-H and FS9-S both get a 10% heat reduction. But I don't see how that compensates for the fact that the AC with 4 CERMLs had 2 extra tons to spend on DHS. And the Clan Endo + Clan FF take up less crit slots, while Clan DHS take up less crit slots as well. Which means lack of crit space will never be an issue, right?

I can see how the FS9-S boating MPLs is a more efficient damage dealer than the AC, but I think the AC is going to be a different beast. The AC may not be able to compete in a knife fight, but its ECM and 450 meter range (with range module) enables it to provide support in mid-range engagements, where the FS9-S with MPLs is useless.

It seems to me that a direct comparison with IS MPL or SPL boats is a bit unfair, as it doesn't take into account the damage the AC does before people get in that range.

[Drasari]

Juodas Varnas, on 19 July 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

I doubt it'll get ANY negative quirks. At least not until it comes out for c-bills.

Enjoy it Clanners, you deserve to have the top mechs in all of the weight classes.

You just have no idea do you.

[Satan n stuff]

Juodas Varnas, on 19 July 2015 - 11:40 AM, said:

Those might be the highest placed hardpoints in relation to the cockpit i've ever seen

K2's hardpoints are much higher, both proportionally and in absolute distance. Not that it matters because you can't actually see or shoot anything until your cockpit clears the terrain.

Juodas Varnas, on 20 July 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

You know... I think i might end up buying my first Clan mech when the Cheetah gets released.
.
.
.
I'm not talking about the Cheetah, oh no no no.
I'll get a SkillCrow with as many SSRMs i can jam into it.

Or you could get something with PPCs and IS ACs or Gauss rifles and oneshot any light that's stupid enough to go near you, if you want to actually be effective that is.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 20 July 2015 - 06:12 AM.

[Greenjulius]

Alistair Winter, on 20 July 2015 - 05:49 AM, said:

It seems to me that a direct comparison with IS MPL or SPL boats is a bit unfair, as it doesn't take into account the damage the AC does before people get in that range.

This is a very good point that many are missing... Because clan weapons are much different in focus, the Arctic Cheetah will play much different, even if it was identical in tonnage, engine and hardpoints.

The Firestarter will still be the DPS king with MPL and SPL heat quirks driving DPS up to the insane levels we currently have. The Cheetah will be more focused on a combo of range and hard hitting alphas.

Here is a comparison of various weapons systems with Range Module 5 and after quirks from the designated Firestarter. (Anyone worth their salt uses range mods with energy weapons)

Clan vs IS SPLs - 1 ton
IS SPL - 4 - 1.85 heat - .5 duration - 132 range - FS9-A
Cl SPL - 6 - 3.00 heat - .75 duration - 181 range

Clan vs IS Meds - 1 ton
IS Med - 5 - 3.6 heat - .9 duration - 310 range - FS9-H
Cl Med - 7 - 6.0 heat - 1.15 duration - 445 range

Clan vs IS Smalls - .5 tons
IS Small - 3 - 2heat - .675 duration - 162 range - FS9-K
Cl Small - 5 - 3heat - 1.0 duration - 220 range

Clan vs IS MPLs - 2 tons
IS MPL - 6 - 3.2 heat - .6 duration - 242 range - FS9-S
Cl MPL - 8 - 6.0 heat - .85 duration - 363 range

What this shows, is the Firestarter will run cooler in all conditions. The FS9-S with MPLs in fact will run nearly twice as efficiently heat to damage wise, thanks to its outrageous 20% MPL heat reduction quirks. (which need to go away)

The Firestarter with SPLs and MPLs is still godlike 1v1. The usual 8xSPL and 5xMPL builds are simply too powerful after quirks for any clan light to directly copy.

The Cheetah however has the FS9 beat on range in nearly all conditions. I personally prefer the ability to keep my distance so I can maximize the utility of ECM as well as the capabilities of clan weapons. That's why I think a combo of ERML and ERSL is probably the most efficient way to run little Cheetah. However, that can't disuade people from using 6xSPL, which should be fairly formidable against slower mechs. Just don't expect to duel any decent firestarter pilots and live.

Oh, and IS Smalls suck really bad.

Edited by Greenjulius, 20 July 2015 - 07:17 AM.

[Gattsus]

Hal Greaves, on 19 July 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

outside of the &quot;C&quot; model it doesnt look really that OP, pretty comparable to a firestarter

Talking about the most broken light in the game.
At least now clans will have a copy.

[Lugh]

Hal Greaves, on 19 July 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

outside of the "C" model it doesnt look really that OP, pretty comparable to a firestarter the most broken mech in the game

corrected that for you and struck it out, because it's still true.....

[Lugh]

Alistair Winter, on 20 July 2015 - 05:49 AM, said:

You elite players will have to educate me a bit.

6xIS MLs do 30 damage and cause 24 heat. Cooldown is 3 seconds, duration is 0.9 seconds, range is 270 meters.
4xCERMLs do 28 damage and cause 24 heat. Cooldown is 3 seconds, duration is 1.15 seconds, range is 405 meters.

Now, I realize Firestarters have some good energy quirks. For medium lasers, the FS9-H and FS9-S both get a 10% heat reduction. But I don't see how that compensates for the fact that the AC with 4 CERMLs had 2 extra tons to spend on DHS. And the Clan Endo + Clan FF take up less crit slots, while Clan DHS take up less crit slots as well. Which means lack of crit space will never be an issue, right?

I can see how the FS9-S boating MPLs is a more efficient damage dealer than the AC, but I think the AC is going to be a different beast. The AC may not be able to compete in a knife fight, but its ECM and 450 meter range (with range module) enables it to provide support in mid-range engagements, where the FS9-S with MPLs is useless.

It seems to me that a direct comparison with IS MPL or SPL boats is a bit unfair, as it doesn't take into account the damage the AC does before people get in that range.

They'll do what I saw an elite FS pilot do all Saturday night (we saw him in several drops several knew him by name [I can't be bothered remembering names]) Shield side forward, run erractically to close the final gap to optimal range. Alpha alpha done.

[Lily from animove]

Greenjulius, on 20 July 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

This is a very good point that many are missing... Because clan weapons are much different in focus, the Arctic Cheetah will play much different, even if it was identical in tonnage, engine and hardpoints.

The Firestarter will still be the DPS king with MPL and SPL heat quirks driving DPS up to the insane levels we currently have. The Cheetah will be more focused on a combo of range and hard hitting alphas.

Here is a comparison of various weapons systems with Range Module 5 and after quirks from the designated Firestarter. (Anyone worth their salt uses range mods with energy weapons)

Clan vs IS SPLs - 1 ton
IS SPL - 4 - 1.85 heat - .5 duration - 132 range - FS9-A
Cl SPL - 6 - 3.00 heat - .75 duration - 181 range

Clan vs IS Meds - 1 ton
IS Med - 5 - 3.6 heat - .9 duration - 310 range - FS9-H
Cl Med - 7 - 6.0 heat - 1.15 duration - 445 range

Clan vs IS Smalls - .5 tons
IS Small - 3 - 2heat - .675 duration - 162 range - FS9-K
Cl Small - 5 - 3heat - 1.0 duration - 220 range

Clan vs IS MPLs - 2 tons
IS MPL - 6 - 3.2 heat - .6 duration - 242 range - FS9-S
Cl MPL - 8 - 6.0 heat - .85 duration - 363 range

What this shows, is the Firestarter will run cooler in all conditions. The FS9-S with MPLs in fact will run nearly twice as efficiently heat to damage wise, thanks to its outrageous 20% MPL heat reduction quirks. (which need to go away)

The Firestarter with SPLs and MPLs is still godlike 1v1. The usual 8xSPL and 5xMPL builds are simply too powerful after quirks for any clan light to directly copy.

The Cheetah however has the FS9 beat on range in nearly all conditions. I personally prefer the ability to keep my distance so I can maximize the utility of ECM as well as the capabilities of clan weapons. That's why I think a combo of ERML and ERSL is probably the most efficient way to run little Cheetah. However, that can't disuade people from using 6xSPL, which should be fairly formidable against slower mechs. Just don't expect to duel any decent firestarter pilots and live.

Oh, and IS Smalls suck really bad.

+ poeple forget the beam duration, lower beamduration will also mean you will deliver more damage into a single component, usually the one they start firing at. So a moving and twisting target is lesslikely to spread the damage across many components.

Gattsus, on 20 July 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

Talking about the most broken light in the game.
At least now clans will have a copy.

a balanced copy, becaue said copy will not be able to spam as much damage as the original.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 July 2015 - 07:28 AM.

[InspectorG]

Mcgral18, on 19 July 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

2 ERMLs for poking? 14 damage? Better than nothing, but nothing extraordinary.

Not the size of the boat but the motion of the Ocean...

I have had some TERRIFIC matches in a Spider V.

AC looks good, but i think heat will be the limiting factor. I just hope PGI launches some weekend event so my AC can nom nom on lrm boats.

Joseph Mallan, on 20 July 2015 - 01:22 AM, said:

So many Good Wolf Clan Patterns. And they went with that...
Dude...

Is it just me, or does a red/orange Wolf Pattern(on about any mech) scream Mario in the tanuki suit???

[Greenjulius]

InspectorG, on 20 July 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Not the size of the boat but the motion of the Ocean...

I have had some TERRIFIC matches in a Spider V.

AC looks good, but i think heat will be the limiting factor. I just hope PGI launches some weekend event so my AC can nom nom on lrm boats.

I'm of the same opinion... Several of my old LRM boats use 3xML as a backup weapon, and they do just fine. 2xERML for 14 damage at 445 range is nothing to ignore. It's super high mounted, so as long as you can SEE the mech, you won't be shooting dirt. And once that range is closed to 220 meters, an additional 20 damage will join it. (if you do 4xERSL in the arms)

Heat is is definitely the limiting factor, with tonnage being 2nd. Heat could be fixed with tonnage, but a 30 tonner with 6 stuck jump jets is going to be tight on space.

Do people realize how much of a ******* this thing is going to be on HPG manifold if someone equips 2xERLL? I guarantee 2xERLL builds are going to inspire some serious hatred.

Edited by Greenjulius, 20 July 2015 - 07:57 AM.

[Wronka]

Just 1 more day til we figure out where this thing lands. Should keep this thread at the top so we can all laugh at whoever was wrong.

[Devilsfury]

Gattsus, on 20 July 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

Talking about the most broken light in the game.
At least now clans will have a copy.

Exactly! Well, if the AC happens to have the magical Jesus hitboxes like the FS. You still see 45 point Alphas in the CT do nothing or just turn it yellow. Sigh...