158 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

MeiSooHaityu, on 20 July 2015 - 03:19 AM, said:

Thank god for indie developers (when they finish a title anyway :/).

...or when it's not yet another faux-retro side-scrolling platformer or isomorphic hack-n-slash. They can't even get the retro part down; they are always uglier than games from the era they are trying to emulate and they mix in modern lighting techniques that jar you out of the pixels.

Honestly, though, the Indie scene isn't much better. On the AAA side, we have rehashes of one game with increasingly prettier lights and on the other side we have rehashes of another game with increasingly lower resolutions. The real passion is in mods. Counter-Strike was a mod. Red Orchestra was a mod. MechWarrior: Living Legends was a mod. Skyrim...is a shameful game that is only made playable with mods that fix bugs and reinvent some of the core mechanics in better ways.

That said, I wouldn't count the industry out. They are well aware that they can only play it safe for so long before the well dries up. Even Call of Duty is losing steam. Battlefield has lost its steam; you can tell by how often it doesn't pop up in the feeds anymore. Eventually, the big players will have to find a new golden goose to draw in the crowds. Who knows? It might be 'Mechs.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 July 2015 - 03:38 AM, said:

...or when it's not yet another faux-retro side-scrolling platformer or isomorphic hack-n-slash. They can't even get the retro part down; they are always uglier than games from the era they are trying to emulate and they mix in modern lighting techniques that jar you out of the pixels.

Honestly, though, the Indie scene isn't much better. On the AAA side, we have rehashes of one game with increasingly prettier lights and on the other side we have rehashes of another game with increasingly lower resolutions. The real passion is in mods. Counter-Strike was a mod. Red Orchestra was a mod. MechWarrior: Living Legends was a mod. Skyrim...is a shameful game that is only made playable with mods that fix bugs and reinvent some of the core mechanics in better ways.

That said, I wouldn't count the industry out. They are well aware that they can only play it safe for so long before the well dries up. Even Call of Duty is losing steam. Battlefield has lost its steam; you can tell by how often it doesn't pop up in the feeds anymore. Eventually, the big players will have to find a new golden goose to draw in the crowds. Who knows? It might be 'Mechs.

Yea, nothing is perfect. For every Minecraft or FTL, there are loads of crap that hit the market. Just watching Nerd Cubed's Hell series is enough to show what crap hits Steam Greenlight.

I'm glad the whole CoD thing is going away. It was boring for me after the first Black Ops.

I also hope mech combat games like MechWarrior get their chance to shine as a AAA title, but we do have to be careful what we wish for.

I want a good MechWarrior title, but do I want it at a high cost? Sure the first one is good at launch, but then it goes downhill from there. Bi-monthly DLC, a new title every year with little core game change, crap single player campaign in sequels, and people get burned out and after 5 consecutive year crap title launches, it gets shelved for another 20 years.

Ugh, the game industry has made me so negative.

[Novakaine]

Big Stompy robot game too hard.
Make n00b have to use noodle.
Noodle hurt when n00bz use it.
Grandpa say in old dayz n00bz used noodle all da time.
Grandpa sayz he's sad because people can't use noodle anymore.
I tell grandpa it'z easier to let others use noodle for me.
Grandpa hit me on the noodle with big stick.
Noodle hurt now.
I think I use noodle and get out of grandpa face.
Steam N00bz inbound.

[Raggedyman]

TwentyOne, on 19 July 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

TLDR+ awful grammar : *Why* in the flying F*ck are mech games not popular!? I need a world where mech games are THE #1 Top selling AND #1 highest quality, best made games.

IMO it's because mechs aren't that big a part of pop-culture, so a lot of people don't have the 'ooooh, I can pretend to be X from movie Y in that game!". Something like Call of Duty has the backing of around a bazillion and five action movies being made each year to explain the setup and context, Borderlands or Deus Ex gets a boost to it's "it's just like X but in space/with mirrorshades" element every time SCI-Fi cashes in big, whilst Grand Theft Auto is on the news every night.

Meanwhile mechs have Robot Jox from 1989.
Which was awful (I should know, I've seen it about 10 times and have it on VHS and DVD)
And we have Robotech, which was a Saturday morning cartoon in the 80's.

Not saying that a game can't break big without the setting being big in the public's eye (Minecraft for example, although that was after the big fantasy explosion...), just that it's a hell of a lot harder. Even Battletech itself mostly got big by being able to come in on the wake of Robotech.

Edited by Raggedyman, 20 July 2015 - 04:38 AM.

[Piney II]

Robot Jox............ugh!

[MeiSooHaityu]

Piney, on 20 July 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

Robot Jox............ugh!

ACHILLES! I already killed you...up here.....HAHAHA!

I admit, I like Robot Jox. Its script is a mess, its full of stereotypes, and it is terribly acted, but it is so fun to watch. Besides, the special effects were actually pretty good (which ate up the budget and why the rest was so terrible).

[Y E O N N E]

MeiSooHaityu, on 20 July 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

Yea, nothing is perfect. For every Minecraft or FTL, there are loads of crap that hit the market. Just watching Nerd Cubed's Hell series is enough to show what crap hits Steam Greenlight.

I'm glad the whole CoD thing is going away. It was boring for me after the first Black Ops.

I also hope mech combat games like MechWarrior get their chance to shine as a AAA title, but we do have to be careful what we wish for.

I want a good MechWarrior title, but do I want it at a high cost? Sure the first one is good at launch, but then it goes downhill from there. Bi-monthly DLC, a new title every year with little core game change, crap single player campaign in sequels, and people get burned out and after 5 consecutive year crap title launches, it gets shelved for another 20 years.

Ugh, the game industry has made me so negative.

There is a theory that a friend of mine refers to as "Earnest Garbage." Entertainment media is rife with fantastic representations of it. What it means is that there is a lot of genuine, well-intending effort put in to create something that will ultimately be mediocre...and that there is demand for it. There is demand due to the "Good Enough" theorem, which holds that people will not pay for the ideal solution. They won't pay for it because they only recognize certain key parts of what they desire and, if they see them in a cheaper package, they will go for that instead. However, they will be left with a vague feeling of dissatisfaction that gnaws at the back of the mind. They'll start thinking things like "Well, I liked it, but..." or "It wasn't the greatest, but it's all I can get" when what they should be thinking is "Wow!" There is no recognition or appreciation for excellence until after the point where it no longer matters, i.e. you've already purchased the mediocre product at the expense of the better one.

By and large, though, people often don't know what they want until they see it. It's why trying to take your customers' demands seriously is difficult; they only have a nebulous idea of what they'd like to see from you and anything they say has a thousand different interpretations. It's because of this effect that we get stagnation; companies find something that strikes a chord with the people and they run with it because it takes a lot of time, money, and risk to isolate and develop such things. A lot of trial and error. But this phenomenon is also why we will always be guaranteed new products. If nothing else, the market for that idea that works gets crowded, and companies are forced to find greener pastures.

Personally, I love attention to detail. BattleTech in general is sorely lacking in that department. I also love coherent, positive user experiences. MWO is lacking in that department. I'd be willing to drop up to $150 on copy of a good combat simulator game with as much attention paid to being fun and engaging as is paid to being a simulator. Lord knows I dropped $110 on Battlefield 3 + Premium, since I thought it would be as tight in the play as Bad Company 2 with the scale and depth of Battlefield 2. It was neither. If I can spend that much on earnest garbage, I'm willing to spend at least the same on excellence.

[IIIuminaughty]

If its not call of duty then the 8 year olds won't come

[Lightfoot]

MechWarrior 2 was the last mech game to be most popular game of the year, but it introduced 3-D graphics. But yeah, MechWarrior games should be more popular, it has the best PvP system I have seen and is realistic.

Other fantasy/sci-fi games have PvP that is mind-numbingly stupid. Like hah! I chop you 45 times with my lazor mega-cutter, blood everywhere, but it's just a flesh wound. needs to be more like 500 times. I just can't play those.

The strength of MechWarrior is that it places you at the controls of a giant, sci-fi, walking tank, giant robot. To be most popular, MechWarrior games have to do that with the highest realism. MWO is making a good start, but I want to see buildings taking damage from stray shots including destruction and collision damage. The occasional Core Breach explosion like from the original cinematic would actually add a lot of gritty realisim and suspension of disbelief. River City has parts where the battles look real and the mechs true to scale like the seaward end of the river. Now just make the buildings destructible.

Beyond that MWO needs a long term hook and that is likely going to come from some PvE elements, but could come from PvP quests. Maybe with a large number of experience and faction points you could add one hardpoint or a specially chosen quirk.

[ShinobiHunter]

I can't get any of my gaming buddies into it, simply because it's too difficult. Moving the torso and legs separately requires relearning normal FPS movement controls. I think the difficulty of it makes it all the more fun, but they can't get the hang of it within a couple hours and they give up. I really don't want the games to be dumbed down for people that won't learn, but I think that's the only way to get people here from COD.

[PappySmurf]

Aninjin but those 1,000,000 active players supported over 50+ leagues 10,000 websites for fan based and league play plus supported the developers by buying all there expansions.Im sory but MWO is this total backward anti social game that MechWarrior never was.MWO resembles MechWarrior/Battletech in a few ways but the rest of MWO is just this crappy repetitive MOBA which most older MechWarrior players and fans cant stand to play.

Like I said MWO needs to go back be redesigned into a MechWarrior/BattleTech game like MechWarrior2-MechWarrior4 was or its going to die.

[MischiefSC]

My Battlemaster is stacked. I don't get the problem.

[LORD ORION]

You can carry a team by yourself in most shooters if you have the reflexes to do so. (eg: CS / CoD)

In mechwarrior being able to aim is only 1/2 the battle.

[Burktross]

SaltBeef, on 19 July 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

Not enough Mechs with Big Breasts, Game of War anyone. Everquest aka Everbreast where even the Lizard females sportin Double D,s. Mechs and Breasts we can make this work!!

I can't even joke about this without cringing

[SgtMagor]

DooM meets MechWarrior, 2 totally different game genre's. trying to get a FPS gamer trying to play MechWarrior would be difficult at best. twitch games are fast and furious (no pun intended ) peeps who are fans and used to playing these kind of games would probably give up in a few minutes because there's no power ups, ammo and equipment pickups, re-spawning, etc; just a few things I can think of at the moment. been a DooMer since 93, just so happens I like big stompy bots, and willing to overlook the control scheme, and the slower paced  gameplay

Edited by SgtMagor, 20 July 2015 - 06:57 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Appogee, on 19 July 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

MechWarrior 2 was the most popular PC game when it was released. I thought MW3 and MW4 were also successful titles, as was MechInsult 1 and 2 on the Xbox.

MW:LL didn't enjoy much marketing support, and was probably complicated for console generation to install, requiring as it did a copy of Crysis to be installed and then modded.

MWO has an atrocious new player experience. Even if new players stay on beyond their cadet bonus days, there's little depth or progression to retain them.

MW2 had the advantage of being one of the very few online games available at the time, it predates mainstream online FPS gaming and actually ended up naming one of the cornerstones of online gaming. ( Clans, in case you're wondering. )

[Summon3r]

Anjian, on 19 July 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

Armored Core 4 and 4Answer are among the very best mech games I ever played in terms of single user experience and story. They mark the directional debut of Hidetaka Miyazaki, who would later direct Bloodbourne and Dark Souls. Armored Core are full of desperate one man missions against massive odds. Most of all, they have a sense of darkness and desolation I don't find in other mech franchises. But being a bit too eccentric and hard core was too much for most people except for a small dedicated base of players. In the end, the success of Dark Souls overwhelmed the developers to keep following the money trail. The story is similar to another promising mech franchise: Zone of the Enders. But the success of another work by its developer --- Hideo Kojima --- caused ZoE to flounder in favor of another series: Metal Gear Solid.

I heard the director that was in charge of Chromehounds and Armored Core V has left the company to work with Square Enix, in an effort to revive another mech francise: Front Mission.

super cool vid's the second more so then the first........ Ninja robots/mechs are ****, battlemechs are the only way to go. chrome hounds felt more battlemechish i look forward to seeing what this guy is up to

[Lugh]

ShinobiHunter, on 20 July 2015 - 05:46 AM, said:

I can't get any of my gaming buddies into it, simply because it's too difficult. Moving the torso and legs separately requires relearning normal FPS movement controls. I think the difficulty of it makes it all the more fun, but they can't get the hang of it within a couple hours and they give up. I really don't want the games to be dumbed down for people that won't learn, but I think that's the only way to get people here from COD.

Because ASDW walking and Mouselook is so hard?!?!

[Lily from animove]

Kristov Kerensky, on 19 July 2015 - 06:49 PM, said:

No BattleTech title has ever been popular, even MW2, which has the highest sales of any of the BTech/MW titles, wasn't popular. Mecha titles in general aren't popular, never really have been.

I can't tell you why, I'm a BTech fan, owned and played every BTech/MW title except MA2, so I do NOT see why people aren't all over this game, baffles the hell outta me.

Then again, why do millions upon millions of people play Farmville? WTBF man, seriously, why do they play that, and spend MONEY on it?

You explain that to me if you can...

Oh, and for those of you saying it's kids/teenages who spend so much on games and drive the market..guess again! It's actually older adults who have the disposable income who drive the market. Always been that way actually, people have always just assumed it was teenage boys for some reason...go figure.

because its a browsergame, so it runs on any pc, no complicated downlaod/installation/graphic setting hizzle fizzle shiits to deal with. It's a brain dead easy thing, and you have success with just doing anything (even if very sboptimal).
If you played some of these games, you soon realie they are either full of stupid players, or they have hidden "bots" because a ton of players (or bots made by the devs) buy craploads veggies and other stuff you put on marketplace even if its above NPC sales price.

SaltBeef, on 19 July 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

We need a Picture of that Wolf Hottie in her Ceremonial Wolf outfit! You know the one that welcomed Phelan Kell into the Wolf Clan. Hubba Hubba Wink wink!

well, MW4 was a bit disappinting (mechs were lookign real ****** by design.), and then there was no new MW5 for a too long time to keep the fans hooked up.

Lugh, on 20 July 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

Because ASDW walking and Mouselook is so hard?!?!

yes for todays gamers, it is.

played ark with a few people, and they were like: wow wtf so many shortcuts (which is maybe like 50). I just loled, becasue they probably never played some deeper sims where truly every key was a shortcut + Shift and CTRL versions of them.

anything past 20 keys is too compley for many people.

Poeple want to paly games, and get easy success, they don't want to spent 20 hours into learning anymore. Which is why WoW keeps so popular, people got used to it and stick with it, they are too lazy lerning something new.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 July 2015 - 07:45 AM.

[1453 R]

American popular culture in general is turned off by giant robots. I don't know the whys and wherefors of it, but the American people as a general whole prefer grizzled, hard-bitten commandos and other Action Heroes to giant robots, or even just moderately largish robots. Japan flips the other way for the most part, preferring sleek technology and with a long and illustrious history of giant robots to fuel their cultural trends and norms.

The best example I can think of is Pacific Rim. it didn't tank over here, but it didn't really do great either; people just weren't interested in gigantic monster-punching megabots. That said, it did booming business overseas, where people are less attached to the notion of the Action Hero and can recognize robot gold when they see it. Armored Core's another example - small but dedicated following in the West, pretty big and rather important franchise in the East. Or it was before From discovered Dark Souls and figured out that (once again) dark and grizzled Action Heroes are recipe for printing money over here.

Really, that's what it all comes down to. Robot pilots aren't considered badasses over here. Nobody looks at a tank driver, even an excellent one, and goes "wow, that guy is freaking awesome!." When they want awesome they go to the Rambos or the John McClanes or the Neos instead, guys with unrealistic handgun skills whose unbelievable stupidity in the arena of firearm combat is only matched by their foes' absolutely appalling aim. And, of course, of the legion of FPS grizzled-soldier video games which have pervaded the market on those movies' footsteps. Those are the stories the American culture thinks of when they think of badass action stuff, not robots.

It's shifting a little bit with the cultural mixing and influx from overseas - we had Real Steel not too long ago that was actually really good (trust me, surprised me as much as it did you), obviously Pacific Rim is a thing, and various robot anime gets just as much airtime as anything else anime...but that's all Japanese robots. BattleTech and MechWarrior have always been niche markets since their inception. They always will be. We're just going to have to deal with that, unfortunately.