158 replies to this topic

[MoonUnitBeta]

My take on it?

It's not very actiony, and requires too much thinking. Other FPS games you can get into a game right away. Games like battle field, you can fly helicopter, tank, plane, or go on foot. You don't really have much to think about in terms of load out. There's a sense of progression and improvement to you character. Not to mention, if you die you don't have to wait 10 minutes to find a new match only to die again.
If mechwarrior had a click and drop game style like planet side 2 and ingame ways to drive tanks, planes, elementals, etc, it would be very fun, and I'm sure more people would stick around. But the learning curve, coupled with the lack of instant feedback (if you want to try something different after dieing, it's a time consuming process to see your new results) make it very difficult for players to feel motivated enough to press on.

[Lily from animove]

1453 R, on 20 July 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

American popular culture in general is turned off by giant robots. I don't know the whys and wherefors of it, but the American people as a general whole prefer grizzled, hard-bitten commandos and other Action Heroes to giant robots, or even just moderately largish robots. Japan flips the other way for the most part, preferring sleek technology and with a long and illustrious history of giant robots to fuel their cultural trends and norms.

The best example I can think of is Pacific Rim. it didn't tank over here, but it didn't really do great either; people just weren't interested in gigantic monster-punching megabots. That said, it did booming business overseas, where people are less attached to the notion of the Action Hero and can recognize robot gold when they see it. Armored Core's another example - small but dedicated following in the West, pretty big and rather important franchise in the East. Or it was before From discovered Dark Souls and figured out that (once again) dark and grizzled Action Heroes are recipe for printing money over here.

Really, that's what it all comes down to. Robot pilots aren't considered badasses over here. Nobody looks at a tank driver, even an excellent one, and goes "wow, that guy is freaking awesome!." When they want awesome they go to the Rambos or the John McClanes or the Neos instead, guys with unrealistic handgun skills whose unbelievable stupidity in the arena of firearm combat is only matched by their foes' absolutely appalling aim. And, of course, of the legion of FPS grizzled-soldier video games which have pervaded the market on those movies' footsteps. Those are the stories the American culture thinks of when they think of badass action stuff, not robots.

It's shifting a little bit with the cultural mixing and influx from overseas - we had Real Steel not too long ago that was actually really good (trust me, surprised me as much as it did you), obviously Pacific Rim is a thing, and various robot anime gets just as much airtime as anything else anime...but that's all Japanese robots. BattleTech and MechWarrior have always been niche markets since their inception. They always will be. We're just going to have to deal with that, unfortunately.

lack of max boob slider

[Lugh]

1453 R, on 20 July 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

American popular culture in general is turned off by giant robots. I don't know the whys and wherefors of it, but the American people as a general whole prefer grizzled, hard-bitten commandos and other Action Heroes to giant robots, or even just moderately largish robots. Japan flips the other way for the most part, preferring sleek technology and with a long and illustrious history of giant robots to fuel their cultural trends and norms.

The best example I can think of is Pacific Rim. it didn't tank over here, but it didn't really do great either; people just weren't interested in gigantic monster-punching megabots. That said, it did booming business overseas, where people are less attached to the notion of the Action Hero and can recognize robot gold when they see it. Armored Core's another example - small but dedicated following in the West, pretty big and rather important franchise in the East. Or it was before From discovered Dark Souls and figured out that (once again) dark and grizzled Action Heroes are recipe for printing money over here.

Really, that's what it all comes down to. Robot pilots aren't considered badasses over here. Nobody looks at a tank driver, even an excellent one, and goes "wow, that guy is freaking awesome!." When they want awesome they go to the Rambos or the John McClanes or the Neos instead, guys with unrealistic handgun skills whose unbelievable stupidity in the arena of firearm combat is only matched by their foes' absolutely appalling aim. And, of course, of the legion of FPS grizzled-soldier video games which have pervaded the market on those movies' footsteps. Those are the stories the American culture thinks of when they think of badass action stuff, not robots.

It's shifting a little bit with the cultural mixing and influx from overseas - we had Real Steel not too long ago that was actually really good (trust me, surprised me as much as it did you), obviously Pacific Rim is a thing, and various robot anime gets just as much airtime as anything else anime...but that's all Japanese robots. BattleTech and MechWarrior have always been niche markets since their inception. They always will be. We're just going to have to deal with that, unfortunately.

Good guy school of aim always wins. Bad Guy school of aim spot on when it further the plot point "Those Jawas were clearly killed by Imperial Storm Troopers, look at the precise strikes" Later Pew pew pew, "wow kid these imperial stormtroopers can't hit **** can they? I mean look at them, they just missed Chewie who's 8 fricking feet tall with a droid sticking up his back, my blind grandma could have hit him in that cooridor" (From things Han would have said if the director was honest cut)

Lily from animove, on 20 July 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

lack of max boob slider

Print Success.

Hanger loading screen to start match, Well endowed female pilot climbing in to cockpit and strapping in, close ups on the chair belts bisecting the breasts. Pan out across a lovely jaw line and full glossed lips (who wears makeup in to combat?) ...

Start printing money.

Add in Obligatory similar scene withe the perils of strapping in for well endowed gents for ladies and the men you don't catch with previous scene.

[Lily from animove]

Lugh, on 20 July 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

Good guy school of aim always wins. Bad Guy school of aim spot on when it further the plot point "Those Jawas were clearly killed by Imperial Storm Troopers, look at the precise strikes" Later Pew pew pew, "wow kid these imperial stormtroopers can't hit **** can they? I mean look at them, they just missed Chewie who's 8 fricking feet tall with a droid sticking up his back, my blind grandma could have hit him in that cooridor" (From things Han would have said if the director was honest cut)


Print Success.

Hanger loading screen to start match, Well endowed female pilot climbing in to cockpit and strapping in, close ups on the chair belts bisecting the breasts. Pan out across a lovely jaw line and full glossed lips (who wears makeup in to combat?) ...

Start printing money.

Add in Obligatory similar scene withe the perils of strapping in for well endowed gents for ladies and the men you don't catch with previous scene.

hey we can also make smoke jaguars into furries and give them a tail and cat ears, and Wolves being those dog human mix things. Instant money print. just a "minor Lore violation". Cater more furries xD How would this end up with Clan jade falcon?

[Windsaw]

Mech games can be popular. The earlier Mechwarrior games prove it.

Now, "popular multiplayer mech games", that is a different question entirely.

I have been following the arguments in this forum. I have compared them to forums in other forums about other games.
I weighted the pros and contras for different features and how they would be viable.

I eventually came to the conclusion that an online mech game, that as a central selling point has the fight of players against players, is going to have a hard time being popular in the long run.

I think that for a Battletech game it is nearly impossible.
I would like to be proven wrong but I doubt that it will happen.

[WarHippy]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 July 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Hawken is also making a comeback. Hawken's developers just up and disappeared, but now a completely new team is at the helm and things are changing rapidly. Devs are on the forums and participating and player count is way up, too.

Can you imagine the improved morale around here if the devs took this same approach? In the future any bump in players we receive from Steam will disappear overnight if the devs don't participate and have a real lasting presence on the forums. In every game I have played the games with the largest most active player base are always the ones with the most active and passionate devs. Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, and other things of that nature are great for additional communication, but when those become almost the entire focus of communication it gives the impression of disinterest, lack of motivation, and animosity toward the player base from the devs. Subconsciously the players begin to care less because why should they care if the devs don't seem to care.

Edited by WarHippy, 20 July 2015 - 08:15 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Windsaw, on 20 July 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

Mech games can be popular. The earlier Mechwarrior games prove it.

Now, "popular multiplayer mech games", that is a different question entirely.

I have been following the arguments in this forum. I have compared them to forums in other forums about other games.
I weighted the pros and contras for different features and how they would be viable.

I eventually came to the conclusion that an online mech game, that as a central selling point has the fight of players against players, is going to have a hard time being popular in the long run.

I think that for a Battletech game it is nearly impossible.
I would like to be proven wrong but I doubt that it will happen.

Well generally for some reaosn many dislike mech games.

most friends replied "eww mech game" no matter if it was the attemp to bring them into MWO, or hawken (which is more an usual arena shooter wiht mech skins).

maybe BT needs a Moba styled game, since this seems to be a thing today.
Would work rather well with upgradebale and buyable mech equip for different mech classes.

@Yeonne Devs are quite active here in the Forum. You should go and visit the APB forum to see how dev emtpy a Forum can be and all the rage included by their playerbase.

@WarHippy, well lol, hawkens palyerbase is tiny, thats why devs can be active, they don't have too many people to interact with. The bigger the game the less active are devs directly with their community.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 July 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[SaltBeef]

Single player and group single player is the answer along with ground troop missions and multiplayer infantry in the BT Galaxy alot of the CW maps would be sweet for Toad operations, tank operation, and Vtol ops. Only 1 or 2 mechs guarding the base primary infantry forces and outside patrols. Missile turrets have hard time tracking infantry due to man pak stealth units.

[Satan n stuff]

Lily from animove, on 20 July 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

hey we can also make smoke jaguars into furries and give them a tail and cat ears, and Wolves being those dog human mix things. Instant money print. just a "minor Lore violation". Cater more furries xD How would this end up with Clan jade falcon?

Wings, obviously.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

The problem is the western market doesn't see Mecha in the same way as the Eastern Japanese market.

Mecha has a HUGE fanbase in Japan because of Gundam, Macross, and various other amazing mecha that's been literally part of their culture for quite some time now. From Gigantor and AstroBoy, on up to current Super Sentai, Kamen Rider, and various other anime and manga and drama's.

Here in the west, we've always been more about the personal soldier, the lone guy who can fight. Think of who our hero's were in the 80's... Rambo-esque, macho guys who could mow down entire groups of enemy's by shouldering a machine gun and going to town.

That's a far cry from focusing on the pilot of a machine that does it for them. Westerner's tend towards the Rambo-esque... hince why FPS games are so popular. 1 guy can take on practically an entire army. That's a much stronger power fantasy than getting in a giant robot and stomping around.

Don't get me wrong, both are power fantasy's. and I absolutely LOVE mecha, hell my absolute favorite gundam series is Mobile Suit Gundam: 08th MS team. Which is very gritty, very "Real Robot" talking about logistics, and resupply and making sure this old GM is operational [IE a lot of what IS mechwarriors have to think about with their old inherited machines.]

But to the average westerner, that's just not that interesting.

[WarHippy]

Lily from animove, on 20 July 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

@WarHippy, well lol, hawkens palyerbase is tiny, thats why devs can be active, they don't have too many people to interact with. The bigger the game the less active are devs directly with their community.

League of Legends, World of Warcraft, and Marvel Heroes to name a few seem to disagree with you. That being said even if you were correct and that a tiny player base is what allows the devs to communicate with the players directly then what exactly is MWO excuse because we aren't exactly rocking a huge player count compared to a lot of games?

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Lily from animove, on 20 July 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

hey we can also make smoke jaguars into furries and give them a tail and cat ears, and Wolves being those dog human mix things. Instant money print. just a "minor Lore violation". Cater more furries xD How would this end up with Clan jade falcon?

Look up Crittertech... seriously, it's basically a more gamey, Furry version of Battletech.

[Spr1ggan]

Lily from animove, on 20 July 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

hey we can also make smoke jaguars into furries and give them a tail and cat ears, and Wolves being those dog human mix things. Instant money print. just a "minor Lore violation". Cater more furries xD How would this end up with Clan jade falcon?

So basically Mechwarrior with Starfox or Bucky o'Hare characters lol.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 20 July 2015 - 08:37 AM.

[Greenjulius]

Going off the cultural differences that western games tend to favor, the only recent game that has done well in the market is Titanfall, which sold somewhere between 3 and 7 million copies. No sales data was provided after the 3 million mark, but work came out that the game has had 7 million unique users.

Rentals, trial/demos and resold copies obviously drive that number to 7 million users. Realistically the game probably sold around 4 million actual copies, which is very respectable. This is however dwarfed by Call of Duty MW3, which has sold almost 27 million copies. Plebs love big burly soldiers shooting each other.

And Titanfall is effectively CoD with robots.

As others have said, if they HAVE to have a battlebot, people like the "immersive experience" of getting in and out of their battlebot. MechAssault 2 even allowed you to jump out of your mech and run around so you could get into another mech.

As a general reference for peak sales of any Battletech title, it's often quoted by Microsoft in 1999 that MW2 made 70 million in sales. This makes it hard to judge number of copies however... At $40 a pop, which seems like a good average, that's 1.75 million copies sold. At $50 a pop, that's only 1.4 million copies. At $30, It's 2.333 million copies.

So it's safe to say that MW2 sold between 1.4 and 2.4 million copies, which is good, especially in the 90s.

However, simulators and robot games in general are not regarded as cool as they once were. MW2 had the benefit of being technically ahead of all games in its day. One of the first fully 3D games, with good gameplay, music and story. It crossed over to mainstream games by graphics alone.

Fast forward to 1999 and 2000 with MW3 and MW4. The while the games were solid and had good graphics, the sim-like gameplay is no longer as popular due to Quake, Unreal and a billion other shooters taking over the market in cutting-edge graphics and easy gameplay. MW2 was the most amazing game ever in July 95, out a full year before Quake in June 96.

I don't ever want to hear people say MW3, MW4 and MWO aren't as successful as MW2 because "they don't follow hardcore BT rules." It's simple untrue.

It's just a generational shift, and it should be obvious to people. The average person just wants to be some dude with a machine gun.

This is coming from a 29 year old who grew up with Mechwarrior 2/3/4/Mercs, Wolfenstein/Doom, Command and Conquer (the original and best) as well as a Sega Master System, SNES, Xbox, 360 and a billion games in between. I haven't played console games since the last Mass Effect, and generally hate the Call of Duty games after the 2nd.

And I still prefer my battlebots...

Edited by Greenjulius, 20 July 2015 - 08:52 AM.

[GonaDie]

''A thinking man's shooter''

CoD kids don't want to think, they want to shoot.

As simple as that.

[MeiSooHaityu]

GonaDie, on 20 July 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

''A thinking man's shooter''

CoD kids don't want to think, they want to shoot.

As simple as that.

I don't even have a problem with reflex twitch shooters. I liked playing CoD for a while. I played Quake and Unreal Tourney games before that.

Thing is, I don't want it to be my only choice. I liked CoD multiplayer for what it was, but I didn't need everything that came out after to be a CoD clone.

Now I'm tired of the reflex twitch shooter and I have very little else to play because all the games had to be shooters and all had to be like CoD.

I am glad this game is different. Makes it refreshing (even if it is far from perfect).

[Lightfoot]

ShinobiHunter, on 20 July 2015 - 05:46 AM, said:

I can't get any of my gaming buddies into it, simply because it's too difficult. Moving the torso and legs separately requires relearning normal FPS movement controls. I think the difficulty of it makes it all the more fun, but they can't get the hang of it within a couple hours and they give up. I really don't want the games to be dumbed down for people that won't learn, but I think that's the only way to get people here from COD.

Joystick fixes that. MWO has good joystick support now and MechWarrior is a joystick game like a flight sim is. I am using a Thrustmaster 16000m I picked up for $40. The return spring was a little strong so I opened the bottom and zip-tied two of the coils together, once I did that it was better than my old Sidewinder 2 and comes with good software. Anyway it is an option and a natural way to pilot a mech.

[Kain Demos]

SaltBeef, on 19 July 2015 - 06:48 PM, said:

It is Generational. ....I grew up on Thundar the barbarian, Gi joe, transformers, He-man, Stompers, Robotech, Star wars, Star Trek, the A-team and the God Bless Dukes of Hazard yeeeeeeehaw!

The teachers and parents tried to tame the Next with , Political correctness, touchy feelings, Barney the purple dinosarus, tele tubbies, the worst they could see was the barfing Power Rangers and that was a Voltron rip- off. It worked and stupifying a generation that prefers Texting Twilight, and Justin bieber hair.

Those great shows enspired me to join the Marine Corps, and later in life the US ANG anf fight overseas, i can only imaging what the Lady Gaga Generation will bring.

By the way the previous Mechwarrior titles were very popular but computer upgrading was a lot more expensive than today.

The '80s, **** yeah! Couldn't agree with this post more---maybe that's why I am a violent dinosaur?

I grew up wanting to kick communist ass someday but had to settle for *********.

[Y E O N N E]

Lily from animove, on 20 July 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

@Yeonne Devs are quite active here in the Forum. You should go and visit the APB forum to see how dev emtpy a Forum can be and all the rage included by their playerbase.

I never said that MWO's developers weren't active here, just that Hawken's new team is also active on its own boards.

As for APB, yeah, I stopped playing it not long after G1 picked it up. It's just not fun, all the spaghetti dancing to avoid getting shot.

[Novakaine]

Of course if PGI would quit jacking around and added these.
The game could change overnight.