45 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Doing so on CT's which have the absolute identical specifics (hardpoints) while we can not swap CT's does not only remove the point of "omnimechs" it also creates inferior chassis.
It does devalue mechpacks by including dead mechs, it also hardly motivates people to buy individual mechs (either mc or C-bills) because its basically like:

"Hey buy this mech that can be entirely like the one you already have, except being a bit more worse."


So lets get a bit in detail here, because it matters.

I previuslly to the Podquirks, had 3 adders that I loved.

• 4x CERML Adder
  
• 2x PPC Adder
  
• 4xsrm6 Adder

My basic loadout. yet I still played some others a few times, which I had to swap builds for. Like 2 LPL's and some others.


Anyways, at this point it would have been appealing to buy 2 more adders, So I can have all my beloved loadouts ready on demand.

But suddenly you brought in Omnipod quirks. One of the worst things in my opinion, Since many were chosen not so fine, further the CT choice was a total fail.

Lets have a look:

The adder quriks and what they turned out



Now any decent player building a mech, will "sort out" invalid, or pointless quirks.

On a light mech, such as the adder this means, yaw angles, torso turn rates and angles are complete garbage NO ONE NEEDS. It can turn far enough and fast enough anyways due to being a light mech.

Yet mobility is very important, and this will just our of this list mean: the ADR-PRIME is plain out superior to the other Variants. Only the ADR-B is a tiny "maybe useful" for having Turnrate mobility. Yet as a light mech, this is also "not much". Especially compared to the prime which now means, for 5% turn rate you sacrifice 10% acc/decc and 10%reverse speed. (suddenly, a very sh*tty tradeoff). It does not add the diversity you hoped to create, all it does was creating a performance gap between those chassis and also other chassis receiving CT quirks.

As Invasion pack owner this leads me now from having 3 well and valid working mechs, to having one or two inferior ones. And not only for the adder, this counts for serveral mechs that received those weird CT quirks.

66% of my regulary used mechs suddenly were devalued.

This leaves me up to 2 possbilities:

• Buying 4 more prime adders to the 5 wanted loadouts.
  
• Constantly swapping laodouts on my prime.

both is personally INVALID, because the first option means owning more and more and more mechs, next to spending lots of cbills. And the more mechs you own, the longer takes the mechlab to load after first connecting to MWO. THATS ANNYOING


the second is similar ANNOYING to having swap loadouts and pots all the time.

So this change did:

• devalue many of my mechs
  
• force me to do more annoying things by either buying more mechs of the same type, which is totally now how omnimechs were supposed to be. "Omnimechs" with the identical laodout and identical pods should not differ at all unless the CT brings up some individual fixed equipment or hardpoints.

I own all 3 Waves, and many of the mechs in those are rather untouched due to not having much interest in them. Yet of those I have interest, mostly 1/3 or 2/3 are now staying untouched as well. So its now like 20% of those mechs being used by me.

Do you really think I feel motivated to buy further packs if the amount of "viable" content within is that low?


The consequences are

that I hop online, feel the mood to play mech X with loadout Y and simply logoff again, because I am not in the mood to swap laodouts first or using a gimped variant of a chassis already being subtier mech. If you are lucky, I grab another "already done" mech and use it. I spent now less time in MWO in a week than I previously did PER DAY. and having checked my own motivation, it is esaxctly and only because of this secifc decision your balance team made.

But the consequences reach further, for YOU PGI
The interest in buying new mechs is related to my MWO motivation. I wanted to buy another Gold, pack, Now I rarely even play. And I guess writing this post even exceeds my ingame time of the last 14 days.
I usually give any mech I like and use regulary Cockpit items and camo (one shots). So ALL my adders, ALL my TBR's ALL my MDD's ALL my NVA's do have cockpititems and camo (none of those free from the packs). Stuff I paid money for that you got. Now with giving those crappy quirks, I have "obsolete" mechs, So I will not have use for the cockpit items in them. This means I am going to take them out and slap them into new mechs of the Wave 3. At least those you haven't gimped with weird CT quirks AGAIN. The Shadowcat and Ebon jaguar, are very much mechs I like by desing, because chicken legs and such. But with the SHC's quirks, and whatever future feraking stuff you may do, I will not buy new cockpit items for them. Now calculate what 3x8 cockpit items means in MC (not) spent.
Because currently, ther eis no CT differenc eon the SHC and so the quirks already tell me:
SHC B > SHC P >SHC A > the rest. basically only owning SHC B variants would be the best.
Same goes for the reinforcement Variants. While initially it was planned to own them all, and equip the ones I like with camo and cockit items, most stay untouched and even unbought due to pointless quirks.
You said in future we will have the ability to put playerdecals on our mechs - for mc charge. Well, that will also mean instead of 30 mechs receiving them instant, it's probably 5 or 6 of my mechs getting them, givne ther eis any motivation left when this happens.

So many things impoved in MWO, so many new mechs came out, yet the motivation is totally down for me due to this little thing that didn't even helped those chassis in diveristy. All it did is creating infreriority even amongst the same chassis of omnimechs, which will also lead many people to not buy specific omnimech chassis beyond 3 chassis to max their skills. Equal CT chassis should only receive quirks that are equal for all mechs amongts this chassis

Please revert this omnimech destroying imbalance creating nonsense.

tl:dr - whale swimming in other seas now.

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 July 2015 - 06:06 AM.

[Fate 6]

I looked at the list and thought the yaw rate CT was the best one because you can never have too much torso twist on a mech as slow as an Adder. I guess it's all in the playstyle - twist speed is better for SRM builds undoubtedly, while accel/decel is (maybe) better for poking. I like that the CTs give different feels

[Coralld]

Fate 6, on 21 July 2015 - 06:23 AM, said:

I looked at the list and thought the yaw rate CT was the best one because you can never have too much torso twist on a mech as slow as an Adder. I guess it's all in the playstyle - twist speed is better for SRM builds undoubtedly, while accel/decel is (maybe) better for poking. I like that the CTs give different feels

Agreed, I like the fact that the CTs have different quirks, it allows for each one to have a different character and use instead of homogenizing them witch is boring and always bad.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

decals ? gimmick.

[Paigan]

Coralld, on 21 July 2015 - 06:27 AM, said:

Agreed, I like the fact that the CTs have different quirks, it allows for each one to have a different character and use instead of homogenizing them witch is boring and always bad.

this

Also, you (we) must to some degree accept that PGI wants to sell mechs and make money.
Putting quirks on CT is a VERY acceptable way of doing so.

If they assigned a -20% cooldown quirk to a CT of a gift-shop only mech and remove it as soon as it comes out for CBs, then it would be a rip-off (maybe?). But look at it. Those are harmless tiny movement quirks.
No basis at all to flame it.

Edited by Paigan, 21 July 2015 - 06:49 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Fate 6, on 21 July 2015 - 06:23 AM, said:

I looked at the list and thought the yaw rate CT was the best one because you can never have too much torso twist on a mech as slow as an Adder. I guess it's all in the playstyle - twist speed is better for SRM builds undoubtedly, while accel/decel is (maybe) better for poking. I like that the CTs give different feels

yes, SRM builds, maybe, but the rate is quite low, given the real delta it benefits. But the entire point of swapping omnipods to non srm's makes nearly no point on this CT. and so the omnimech ability gets detsroyed. because UAC's or lasers go very crapyp with thos CT. Those mobility quirks that have relations to specific wepaons should belong to the wepaon pods, not the CT. and Even the srm adder will in many cases have to cornerpop since it's to big for circle yerk harrasing. And so the prime CT or general turnrate is more of a benefit on this as well.

they should give in Adder example any CT +15% acc/decc and move the other quirks to the relevant weapon systems. This would keep the Omnimech relevance of the CT. because now you decide the CT after the wepaons choice. Which is reversed omnilogic.

further yaw angle addition is very bad on the adder, because the hitboxes of the adder allow your back CT beign hitable from 90degree twisted in. and so you would never twist further away from any opponents and you should never twist your legs past 90degree, or the pelvis CT can be hit. So the true benefit of those yaw angle is only when no one shoots at you and you approach far twisted with a very strange movement angle to your opponent. And this scenario is so rare to happen that this quirk is negliable.

Coralld, on 21 July 2015 - 06:27 AM, said:

Agreed, I like the fact that the CTs have different quirks, it allows for each one to have a different character and use instead of homogenizing them witch is boring and always bad.

thats entirely NOT the point of a OMNImech, the point of an omnimech is to change the character with pods
unchangeable CT's with unique quirks make Omnimechs into semi battlemechs

Paigan, on 21 July 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

this

Also, you (we) must to some degree accept that PGI wants to sell mechs and make money.
Putting quirks on CT is a VERY acceptable way of doing so.

If they assigned a -20% cooldown quirk to a CT of a gift-shop only mech and remove it as soon as it comes out for CBs, then it would be a rip-off (maybe?). But look at it. Those are harmless tiny movement quirks.
No basis at all to flame it.

10% acceleration vs those yaw rates? thats far from tiny, not in elo ranks where milliseoncs matter between being hit or not.

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 July 2015 - 06:56 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Lily from animove, on 21 July 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

...
I previuslly to the Podquirks, had 3 adders that I loved.

• 4x CERML Adder
  
• 2x PPC Adder
  
• 4xsrm6 Adder

My basic loadout. yet I still played some others a few times, which I had to swap builds for. Like 2 LPL's and some others.
....

Did you buy these 3 Adders before the CTs were (positively) quirked?

[Mawai]

Some CTs on clan mech variants have weapon hard points while others do not. How is that any different from having different quirks for different CT of the same mech.

If anything I think it is a great idea because if gives some differentiation between the CT on different omni-mech builds. As it is, I mostly build clan mechs around the CT that gives me the 30% cbill bonus and only play the others to get the XP unlocks.

IFT-PRIME - no energy hard point in CT ... all the rest have one
NVA-S - AMS hardpoint in CT
TBR-PRIME - 1B in CT : TBR-S - no hard point : TBR the rest - 1E
2 Gargoyle variant CT have energy hard points - the rest nothing
WHK and DWF both have a variety of CT hard points

[Paigan]

Lily from animove, on 21 July 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

[...]
10% acceleration vs those yaw rates? thats far from tiny, not in elo ranks where milliseoncs matter between being hit or not.

Not my point

[Lily from animove]

Hit the Deck, on 21 July 2015 - 06:55 AM, said:

Did you buy these 3 Adders before the CTs were (positively) quirked?

wave 1 mech didn't had any quirks when they came out. It's also not about positive/negative quirks, its entirely about how unique CT quirks and how they prejudice the ENTIRE omnimehc to specific builds, or makign them entirely inferior.

Mawai, on 21 July 2015 - 06:57 AM, said:

Some CTs on clan mech variants have weapon hard points while others do not. How is that any different from having different quirks for different CT of the same mech.

If anything I think it is a great idea because if gives some differentiation between the CT on different omni-mech builds. As it is, I mostly build clan mechs around the CT that gives me the 30% cbill bonus and only play the others to get the XP unlocks.

IFT-PRIME - no energy hard point in CT ... all the rest have one
NVA-S - AMS hardpoint in CT
TBR-PRIME - 1B in CT : TBR-S - no hard point : TBR the rest - 1E
2 Gargoyle variant CT have energy hard points - the rest nothing
WHK and DWF both have a variety of CT hard points

First, you didn't even read further than the title:

Lily from animove, on 21 July 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

Doing so on CT's which have the absolute identical specifics (hardpoints) while we can not swap CT's does not only remove the point of "omnimechs" it also creates inferior chassis.

second, those CT quirks were not chosen in any relation to those 30% c-bill quirks. Especially given that for non Invasion Package buying people the Prime variants do not even come with this 30% bonus. So that bears not much logic at all.

Paigan, on 21 July 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

Not my point

you called it harmelss, reality shows it's not harmless.

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 July 2015 - 07:14 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Lily from animove, on 21 July 2015 - 07:06 AM, said:

wave 1 mech didn't had any quirks when they came out. It's also not about positive/negative quirks, its entirely about how unique CT quirks and how they prejudice the ENTIRE omnimehc to specific builds, or makign them entirely inferior.
....

Well, I suggest just pretend that their torsos don't have any quirk at all because the quirks are all positive and you will not be disadvantaged by doing that. Unless you are somewhat obsessive compulsive that you must have the best.

In a way it's almost like those people who complained that they can't sell their bonus Legendary (L) 'Mechs but maybe it's an entirely different case.

Think it this way, would you prefer that the CTs have nothing (like it used to be) instead of positive quirks just because by being so, no (CT) variant will be superior to the others?

[Lily from animove]

Hit the Deck, on 21 July 2015 - 07:16 AM, said:

Well, I suggest just pretend that their torsos don't have any quirk at all because the quirks are all positive and you will not be disadvantaged by doing that. Unless you are somewhat obsessive compulsive that you must have the best.

In a way it's almost like those people who complained that they can't sell their bonus Legendary (L) 'Mechs but maybe it's an entirely different case.

Think it this way, would you prefer that the CTs have nothing (like it used to be) instead of positive quirks just because by being so, no (CT) variant will be superior to the others?

in regards of that question: YES then I better have none, because then my mechs are equally valued, now I have mechs being less worth than others. Because if you build a mech in comparison to others, cost of opportuntaty is what comes into play. And so you can not really pretent it does not have these quirks, becaue on this table, the Non prime adder basically has -10% acc/decc in comparison to the adder prime. Further you realise this when you play these mechs. So simply saying "pretent they aren't there" is not working.

If you play to troll around it does not care, but if you play the game and wanna give your best, building the best is also initial part of MWO, because doint the best starts with building the right mech. because otherwise you coudl also say: hey cool I have +100% ballistic cooldowns on my mech only having E hardpoints. (ok extreme example, but basically the issue of having soemthing, even if it's the wrong thing, doesn't makes it a good thing at all)

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 July 2015 - 07:23 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Trying to image how long the OP would have been if PGI had put Flamer Quirks on those CT sections. LOL!

[Lily from animove]

Almond Brown, on 21 July 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

Trying to image how long the OP would have been if PGI had put Flamer Quirks on those CT sections. LOL!

Since enormally its a fixed piece of equipment, and every adder having one, this would at leats have made sense. And it would, if any CT has otem them, not counter the Omnipod ability.

[Hit the Deck]

Lily from animove, on 21 July 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

Because if you build a mech in comparison to others, cost of opportuntaty is what comes into play. And so you can not really pretent it does not have these quirks, becaue on this table, the Non prime adder basically has -10% acc/decc in comparison to the adder prime. Further you realise this when you play these mechs. So simply saying "pretent they aren't there" is not working.
....

That suggestion is just for you since you had bought those Adders before the quirks came.

For those people considering to buy Adders, then yes the special CT quirks come into play. In this regard, it's up to PGI to create different but equally attractive (CT) variants. Think of it this way, without quirks, they are just different in names only, i.e. practically the same. And thus that's the same thing when all of your (current) Adders are the Prime variant.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 21 July 2015 - 07:59 AM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

A skill tree allowing us to choose our own quirks would have brought a lot of value to the immersion of this game. I dislike being directed into what builds should be used.

[MischiefSC]

Wow. That is almost as bad as every IS package. You have to buy all three in the hopes that 1 of them isn't terrible.

[Lily from animove]

Hit the Deck, on 21 July 2015 - 07:58 AM, said:

That suggestion is just for you since you had bought those Adders before the quirks came.

For those people considering to buy Adders, then yes the special CT quirks come into play. In this regard, it's up to PGI to create different but equally attractive (CT) variants. Think of it this way, without quirks, they are just different in names only, i.e. practically the same. And thus that's the same thing when all of your (current) Adders are the Prime variant.

that does not work, because you feel the difference when playing them and so they can not be the same thing in how they currently are. Mastering a mech means playing many many many of matches in it, knowing every bit and byte of its behavior. Now I have 3x the same mech behaving differently, this may for newbies be even more confusing. Thats quite far away from what an omnimech should be. Further I bought omnimechs back them, not semi battlemechs.

MischiefSC, on 21 July 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Wow. That is almost as bad as every IS package. You have to buy all three in the hopes that 1 of them isn't terrible.

just with the difference that they are more expensive as package and that you first have to pay extra c-bills for swapping pods. On an IS, mech you at leats reuse a engine of another mech you already own, master it and then rip off all components, while the clan equipment and engnes is what you always pay for and can not slaughter from the mech to use it on other mechs.

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 July 2015 - 08:20 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lily from animove, on 21 July 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

*SNIP*

PGI. All Omni Variants Use A Single BASE Chassis. it is why it is called a Base Chassis! There should be only ONE perk for the CT of any one OmniMech type.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Going to have to agree on all points made in this long post. CT omni quirks should be the same across all variants of a chassis, because you end up taking the variant with the best CT quirks for any loadout all the time, especially for competitive play. Having to swap loadouts for every single build you have for a chassis just because it has more CT armor or internal structure or better quirks is too time consuming. Buying more of the same variant is not the answer.

PGI FIX THIS PLS.