74 replies to this topic

[Lugh]

Torric, on 21 July 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

This is not charity, this is not an NGO, this is a business and a greedy one at that. It only "helps" filling the bank accounts of Russ & Co., going by the experience over the last three years it does not significantly help with anything but "MORE NEW MECHS (BEHIND ANOTHER PAYWALL OFC)".



I guess for some people P2W does not begin until they implement a button which costs money to click and instantly wins you the game.

Pay to win is I get a Clan UAC20 that is half the normal weight and zero jam chance, for 10.00 for a single mech.
That same UAC20 cannot be placed on any other mech I own. And it is not available EVER for c bills.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Davers, on 21 July 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

If they did PT like LoL, with 2 options 1. a constantly running timer (like we have now) and a second option that just rewarded a boost on a set number of wins that didn't expire, would that be something that you think might sell?

How exactly does the second option work? Is it like...

You buy premium time any you earn "X" amount more (like now), but if you win say 10 times within a specified amount of time you get a limited multiplier for your premium time?

If that's what you mean, the only downside is that PUG players often deal with an ELO system that tries to keep players at a 50/50 W/L type spread. That tampering in drops could unfairly keep PT multipliers away from you due in part to no fault of your own.

Also, if I was afraid to lose my multiplayer, I might not want to experiment with builds, grind the skill tree of new mechs, or take perceived lesser mechs like lights all because I might lose a precious multiplier for the limited time I've purchased premium time.

If I interpreted it right, I could see some downsides to that system. I like the idea of performance rewards, but the random nature of 24 PUGs in a match and the ELO meddling might make it difficult to try and earn that multiplier when you need it most.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 21 July 2015 - 12:31 PM.

[Axeface]

This games payment model is terrible, I have come to realise. I have spent more money on this game than I have on any other single game in my long history of gaming except for 1 (eight years of warcraft...) and I hate that fact, because this game is an arena deathmatch game with no depth. It doesnt even have a damn in-fiction front end.... just a storefront....

The thing is, this has become so clear to me that I dont think I can justify spending more - I want new mechs, for example I really want the Shadowcat, but I hate that I want them. On top of all that I know that they are selling the ECM mechs now because they know the allure will soon drop, because of nerfs - overall it's all very annoying, greedy and pretty disgusting.

Right now I want to spend some of my money on games as I havent got myself anything for a while - it's the shadowcat or the witcher 2.... yeh, no contest.



PGI are making strides, the new map is a great glimpse of a better future - but it's a bit late? This game isnt and shouldnt be beta anymore. When the devs call things like a Solaris mode "a huge undertaking" I have to take a step back and wonder who i'm spending my money on.



F2P should sell me cosmetics and convienience items - apart from Premium time (which is fine) the current system is like some kind of glorified pledge system. Why cant they give their artists some time to make some new camo schemes instead of making them endlessly apply the old ones to the next mech pack? Some new 'material' options for your mechs? (shiny, matte, metal finish...), Decals? Named mechs? MC cbill boost to any mech?
More of that and less mech packs, and I'll be a lot more open with my wallet.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Axeface, on 21 July 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

This games payment model is terrible, I have come to realise. I have spent more money on this game than I have on any other single game in my long history of gaming except for 1 (eight years of warcraft...) and I hate that fact, because this game is an arena deathmatch game with no depth. It doesnt even have a damn in-fiction front end.... just a storefront....

The thing is, this has become so clear to me that I dont think I can justify spending more - I want new mechs, for example I really want the Shadowcat, but I hate that I want them. On top of all that I know that they are selling the ECM mechs now because they know the allure will soon drop, because of nerfs - overall it's all very annoying, greedy and pretty disgusting.

Right now I want to spend some of my money on games as I havent got myself anything for a while - it's the shadowcat or the witcher 2.... yeh, no contest.



PGI are making strides, the new map is a great glimpse of a better future - but it's a bit late? This game isnt and shouldnt be beta anymore. When the devs call things like a Solaris mode "a huge undertaking" I have to take a step back and wonder who i'm spending my money on.



F2P should sell me cosmetics and convienience items - apart from Premium time (which is fine) the current system is like some kind of glorified pledge system. Why cant they give their artists some time to make some new camo schemes instead of making them endlessly apply the old ones to the next mech pack? Some new 'material' options for your mechs? (shiny, matte, metal finish...), Decals? Named mechs? MC cbill boost to any mech?
More of that and less mech packs, and I'll be a lot more open with my wallet.

Get Witcher 2, it's a good game with a few hours of play time! Ok, maybe 20 hours of play time. And I actually really like the Witcher games btw, still run through the first on occasion trying out off the wall concepts and seeing how many of the cards I can get for the women, so far, I've gotten em all, and I have the Polish 'adult' version of the cards, which aren't very damn adult I might add. I'll get more playtime from the Shadow Cat, so it was worth it for me.

It's just a matter of whether or not you think it's worth the money, that's it. I've dropped over a grand on this game, not a single issue with that either, I've gotten my money's worth as far as I'm concerned. If you don't think it's worth it, don't spend the money, because this is entertainment, so it's PURELY a personal issue on what is good/fair/worthwhile.

Compared to some of the F2P games out there, popular ones making good profits, MWO is cheap as hell. There's no Pay2Win in MWO, so whatever else you may think of it's pricing, please don't try and use that as your reason for not liking the game or spending money on it, because it's a bs reason without any foundation. You don't want to spend money, don't, you don't need to give an excuse.

[Axeface]

Kristov Kerensky, on 21 July 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

Compared to some of the F2P games out there, popular ones making good profits, MWO is cheap as hell. There's no Pay2Win in MWO, so whatever else you may think of it's pricing, please don't try and use that as your reason for not liking the game or spending money on it, because it's a bs reason without any foundation. You don't want to spend money, don't, you don't need to give an excuse.

My reason for not spending money on the game (and wanting it to change so I DO spend money on it) is a 'bs reason with no foundation' because you happen to think that it's priced well? I hope you can see the blatent hypocrisy of that statement. Sorry I dont agree at all.
Also, MWO is not p2w anymore, Clan wave 1 was the very definition of p2w.

Oh, and I meant the Witcher 3 - same price as the Shadowcat pack.

Edited by Axeface, 21 July 2015 - 01:59 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Axeface, on 21 July 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

My reason for not spending money on the game (and wanting it to change so I DO spend money on it) is a 'bs reason with no foundation' because you happen to think that it's priced well? I hope you can see the blatent hypocrisy of that statement. Sorry I dont agree at all.
Also, MWO is not p2w anymore, Clan wave 1 was the very definition of p2w.

I was clear, saying MWO is P2W and using THAT as the reason is bs, it's not P2W, never has been.

And the Clan Wave I argument, again, really? HOW many times do you types have to be told, again, what P2W means before you get it? Rhetorical question, the answer is you will never get it, you need an excuse for your actions, and that's the easy one to go for.

Get Witcher 2 though, seriously, good game, I enjoy it, looking at picking up 3 as well.

[Axeface]

Kristov Kerensky, on 21 July 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

I was clear, saying MWO is P2W and using THAT as the reason is bs, it's not P2W, never has been.

And the Clan Wave I argument, again, really? HOW many times do you types have to be told, again, what P2W means before you get it? Rhetorical question, the answer is you will never get it, you need an excuse for your actions, and that's the easy one to go for.

Get Witcher 2 though, seriously, good game, I enjoy it, looking at picking up 3 as well.

Right back at you, I think that you "types" are confused about what p2w is. If you are seriously saying that clan wave 1 wasn't, then you truely do not know what it means.

And yes, I misread the first part. That is not my reasoning for not wanting to spend anymore.

Edited by Axeface, 21 July 2015 - 02:09 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Axeface, on 21 July 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

Right back at you, I think that you "types" are confused about what p2w is. If you are seriously saying that clan wave 1 wasn't, then you truely do not know what it means.

And yes, I misread the first part. That is not my reasoning for not wanting to spend anymore.

I know exactly what P2W means, I've played a number of F2P games that were P2W, you literally couldn't even complete the PvE side of them without spending money on gear that couldn't be acquired in any other fashion, and PvP in those was even worse when it came to P2W. Obviously you've never played a P2W game or you'd know the difference.

[LordNothing]

while packs are seen as a 'good value' to some, the way i see it i could go buy another game (or many other games) for the price of some of them. other games which would probibly be more fun than the same old 4 game modes and the same old weapons in mwo. for me some of those packs are complete unobtainium, and the ones i can afford are high enough to be considered an unjustifiable extravagance.

i understand that large cash grabs like that are neccisary under their buisness model, but they really need to market more stuff to the nickel and dime crowd. there is a lot of money to be had with micro transactions. id like to see a lot more 1-5$ items in the gift store. patterns, colors, modules, mech bays, things like that. things you can insta-buy directly with cash without having to convert to mc. kind of impulse buy stuff that you can get with your spare change.

you can also market to the no bs crowd as well, say you want to buy a hero mech but dont want to screw around with mc, so having those mechs available through the online store would save them a lot of hassle.

as for premium time if it came in more granular banks of about 3 days to a week i might be able to justify buying it. 3 day blocks would be well suited to your working class players who can really only play on weekends. these arent your whales but they are a significant number of paying customers. you can have a 30 day premium time packge available in 10 banks of 3 and charge slightly more than the 1 month premium time. you can charge a little extra for the convenience of banking and there are people who would prefer to buy it that way.

another idea of premium time is to buy it on a game to game basis as a micro-mc transaction. have a switch somewhere, if enabled every time you start a game a small amount of mc is used to make that game count as a premium game. overall this should be a low value but more accessible way to get premium time. you can just bank up on mc and use it as needed. this would be marketable to intermittent players who can only get in a few games in a week where buying premium time in blocks is rather wasteful.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 July 2015 - 02:19 PM.

[ilikerice]

You do realize that micro transactions make less money?

A $1 transaction ten times will net less money than a single $10 transaction....

[El Bandito]

ilikerice, on 21 July 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

You do realize that micro transactions make less money?

A $1 transaction ten times will net less money than a single $10 transaction....

But it is more attractive to more people.

[TheArisen]

I'd like to see more things available for sale. Special geometry, decals, custom and not, customizable mech bays, customizable pilots, etc.

[Clint Steel]

I hate premium time in its current state. I don't play subscription games because I always feel I have to play or else I'm wasting money. I want to play games on my time, not because I've got a subscription that will be wasted if I don't login. This isn't even considering things like down internet, servers or computer issues.

I would make an alternative purchase model for Premium Time that allows you to purchase it in number of matches it will effect.

[Johnny Z]

Kristov Kerensky, on 21 July 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

I was clear, saying MWO is P2W and using THAT as the reason is bs, it's not P2W, never has been.

And the Clan Wave I argument, again, really? HOW many times do you types have to be told, again, what P2W means before you get it? Rhetorical question, the answer is you will never get it, you need an excuse for your actions, and that's the easy one to go for.

Get Witcher 2 though, seriously, good game, I enjoy it, looking at picking up 3 as well.

Wave 1 was pay to win and was like a sledge hammer to this games player base, which still haunts this game to this day.

[LordNothing]

ilikerice, on 21 July 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

You do realize that micro transactions make less money?

A $1 transaction ten times will net less money than a single $10 transaction....

a microtransactions will make more money because im not about to spend $40+ on a mech pack, but i will buy a mechbay here and there when i have some bucks after the bills.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 July 2015 - 02:26 AM.

[Greyhart]

Yes my point was that dropping the prices would encourage more sales and therefore earn more money.

On the bulk buying of MC. Yes economies o scale usually mean that you get more for less (due to decreased production costs) however that does not apply to non tangible Items.

I have spent money on the game, because I like it (although it is far from perfect). However with MC costing less the more I buy I am not going to buy any unless it is efficient for me to do so i.e. drop the $100. And I am never going to be able to justify that amount in the near future so they don't get my money.

However if there was no saving on a large spend then I might drop $5 a week.

I am never really going to be in a position where I think spending $20 on a single Mech is justified. However again $5 for the mech and $5 for the bay might get me to part with my money a lot quicker.

I would like to get up to speed on clan mechs but I am spending my time grinding cbills because I am not handing over that sum of money for a Mech. Everyone knows it is crazy.

I would also like an option on premium time that it would only run when logged in. Yes this would mean that I would pay the same for 3 hours of premium time as is charged for 24 hours. As I would get better value out of it. I also like the idea of buyig a bonus that is applied to X winning matches.

[LordBraxton]

This game uses 6-12 month paywalls and charges $20-$30 per digital mech. Anyone outside of our cult community thinks we are insane, and rightfully so. This is nostalgia bait for whales at its finest. The in-game economy is completely unreasonable an has turned away every single player I have introduced to this game who was not already a MW\BT fan. Strangely enough, every single MW\BT fan overlooked the insane pricing. This game will never appeal outside of its cult audience, and the pricing is a huge portion of that. (the rest being the terrible NPE)

Edited by LordBraxton, 22 July 2015 - 03:42 AM.

[Raggedyman]

my 2p collection

Greyhart, on 21 July 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

premium time
However for casual players who may have an hour or two a week it appears to be a waste of money because you're paying for 24 hours when in really you only get 2 hours.

It's a nice idea but one that I'm not aware of getting implemented successfully in any other game, so one that PGI will inherently be suspicious of because the MMO market is very cautious. The only game that almost tried it (as far as I know) was APB; that tanked due to being awful rather than for it's members model, but because it had a different members model that made everyone go 'oooh, that probably didn't help, even if the main problem was it was programmed in crayon with a design brief written by a monkey on crystalmeth'

Greyhart, on 21 July 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

MC cost for mechs and Mech bays.
the current system is nice but I can't help but think they have it the wrong way round.
Mechs should be cheap for MC but Mech Bays should costs more to account for it. So there is really no change in the price (except of course if you buy by Cbills you pay more for the Mech bay). This seems the better commercial decision (although people will be annoyed at it).

The problem is that MechBays are the free-player tax, aimed 100% at those who don't spend $$$ anywhere else. If the price on there got put up a lot of money from otherwise free players would be lost and it's unlikely they would spend it on anything else.

Greyhart, on 21 July 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

Price of MC
Currently the price of MC reduces the more you pay. Whilst this might appear to encourage a larger spend I would suggest that actually it discourages a large number of smaller spends.

If the price was constant i.e. 150 MC for $1 no matter how much you buy then people will be encouraged to get $5 worth every week (or every couple of days) rather than feel they have to fork out $100 to get their monies worth

Not going to happen. You need that multiplier to get people to spend more. That "$100 to get their monies worth" thing is 100% why it will stay and why practically every game on the planet has a discount curve.

You also need to have it in largish (comparatively) lumps to avoid transaction costs, so $1 sales are unlikely. They happen a lot in phone games but that's mostly because someone else (Apple or Google) are handling the transaction through their own system, so have economy of scale on their side (ie "We're Apple, your going to charge us nothing for every bazillion transactions and in return you get to put our logo on your sales broucher when trying to get trade off everyone else")

Greyhart, on 21 July 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

Skills Mech and pilot

If the pilot skill tree was to specialise in a specific area (like a character class) there would be an opportunity to sell extra pilot slots or sell a reset of the skills for MC therefore adding additional depth to the game and an another avenue for money generation.

I thank you 1000 times for mentioning the need of a skill tree and I agree with you 1000 times as the current unlock system is dull as mud.

Anyway, extra slots hits an instant wall of "PAY TO WIN!!!!" so is more worry than its worth (though I'm sure it can be stealthed in with bonus offers on big packs). The reset option could work, and has for some.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Johnny Z, on 21 July 2015 - 11:18 PM, said:

Wave 1 was pay to win and was like a sledge hammer to this games player base, which still haunts this game to this day.

And that's bs, it was then and it still is now.

LordBraxton, on 22 July 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

This game uses 6-12 month paywalls and charges $20-$30 per digital mech. Anyone outside of our cult community thinks we are insane, and rightfully so. This is nostalgia bait for whales at its finest. The in-game economy is completely unreasonable an has turned away every single player I have introduced to this game who was not already a MW\BT fan. Strangely enough, every single MW\BT fan overlooked the insane pricing. This game will never appeal outside of its cult audience, and the pricing is a huge portion of that. (the rest being the terrible NPE)

More like 3 months of paywall then the Mechs are released for cbills currently, it WAS shorter when the Clan Wave I was released, they've increased the mc/cbill release dates since the Wave I which had 6 weeks for mc and 8 weeks for cbill. Nothing like a little exaggeration to make your point though when you haven't got facts to back it up right? I mean, who's really counting if it's 6 or 12 months instead of 2 to 3 months, right?

You don't want to spend money, don't, no one forces you to, the game doesn't REQUIRE you to purchase anything with real money in order to be able to play on the same level as anyone else. Cash purchases are for vanity items or to bypass time by getting things early, making a few more cbills or xp, and that's it.

Don't like the prices, well, don't spend the money. It's literally not worth it for them to price things at $1, they lose money on transactions that small. The business I'm in, we don't do small transactions either, it literally costs me more than $1 to sell $1 of time for a cellphone, it would be stupid to do that, so we don't, anymore than PGI does. You do NOT make money on 100 $1 sales when EACH of those sales costs you $1.25, so you don't do it.

[Mister Blastman]

First step: Fix glaring problems

Next step: Provide content

Right now there are some glaring problems like hit detection that need to be fixed.