74 replies to this topic

[GRiPSViGiL]

Pay2Win doesn't exist in this game. It is more like pay to not have to wait.

Pay2win only occurs if I can't buy the same thing you bought with in game currency. They have yet to sell anything for real money that cannot be bought with CB.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Mister Blastman, on 22 July 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

First step: Fix glaring problems

Next step: Provide content

Right now there are some glaring problems like hit detection that need to be fixed.

That hit detection issue you have Blast is really rather unique, the rest of us aren't having it. BTW, any word from support yet? I'm following the thread as well, I'll keep checking it, your issue really has me intrigued.

And yes, we need more content, good content, not JUST more Mechs. A package of camos, not just a single one, and something really good, high def stuff, I'm paying money, it'd better make me go WOW! when I see it. Actual camo schemes from the TT game for the various House Units and Merc units, not this crap we've been getting so far for Faction camos, but the real things.

And I'm STILL waiting for a neon hot pink color!

[MechaBattler]

Disagree on the mechbays. It's the paywall. You can play this game completely free until you fill your mechbays. Then you have to make the decision to buy mechbays or sell mechs.

I've been saying it for a long time. They should do per battle boosters. For people who can't really take advantage of premium time.

[TLBFestus]

ilikerice, on 21 July 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

You do realize that micro transactions make less money?

A $1 transaction ten times will net less money than a single $10 transaction....

It's still a lot more than someone deciding $10 is too much for a couple of colors.

[Mister Blastman]

Kristov Kerensky, on 22 July 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

That hit detection issue you have Blast is really rather unique, the rest of us aren't having it. BTW, any word from support yet? I'm following the thread as well, I'll keep checking it, your issue really has me intrigued.

And yes, we need more content, good content, not JUST more Mechs. A package of camos, not just a single one, and something really good, high def stuff, I'm paying money, it'd better make me go WOW! when I see it. Actual camo schemes from the TT game for the various House Units and Merc units, not this crap we've been getting so far for Faction camos, but the real things.

And I'm STILL waiting for a neon hot pink color!

Well I just did a complete re-install. As in wipe and download the whole thing fresh. The repair tool wasn't helping anything. And so far... in preliminary alpine test... the exploding projectiles are now gone. More tests are needed to be sure.

[FrontGuard]

I did not read this entire thred so sorry if I am repeating any ideas.

I would pay for:
a pilot name change
transfer mech from one account to another
Clear Stats option
Nvidia Dawn Pixi cockpit item
special rich guy Armor - should have some way to tell if used game
special rich guy Heat Sinks - should have some way to tell if used in game
an additional mech Module
an additional weapon Module

Edited by FrontGuard, 22 July 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[Kassatsu]

El Bandito, on 21 July 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

I want to and did, from 2012-2013, but when a single color still costs 6 USD, I shut my wallet tight. This is not how one does micro transaction. It is just a single plain virtual color palette FFS, not a mech.

Also the fact that MWO's premium time only boosts 50% instead of 100% like most other popular F2P games, is quite laughable. Why should I spend money for PT if I still cannot avoid the grind?

Colors are global unlocks for every single mech you own. Camo patterns are another story (and even more laughable).

Have you played Heroes & Generals? They just nerfed the currency increase on premium time from 50% (MWO's current rate) to 15% (lolwat?). The prices there are far more ridiculous than they are here for everything else as well, not to mention the grind is far worse (the credit cost isn't even the problem for the most part) to get anything, or at least be 'optimal' at what you have unlocked. Plus, they have R&R and it can be quite expensive for fully upgraded weapons and vehicles. You know what though? It actually works, crazy, I know.

Edited by Kassatsu, 22 July 2015 - 10:15 AM.

[TheArisen]

I think if PGI had more avenues of income prices could become more reasonable. With that partially in mind, I made a thread about more customization options.
http://mwomercs.com/...zation-options/

[Averen]

Prices are one thing. I'd probably again spend money on the game if it would be in a good state. But atm the game still has huge balance issues, which only serve to make the game experience frustrating at times, and too easy otherwise. Ofc beside MWO being incredibly repetetive, only having an extremly grindy progression system as an overarching element, which is anything but fun.
CW just extrapolates the issues of grind and balance.

But as long as these things are fixed it's very hard to justify any kind of investment, no matter how good the price is.

EU servers definitly were a great addition, but there IMO has to be something else to deliver some long time enjoyment. Looking at the IIC wave incoming, I can't see it getting better.

Edited by Averen, 22 July 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Chuck YeaGurr, on 21 July 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

In Oregon minimum wage is almost close to $10/hour so 1.5 hours of work is almost equal to double income for a month. Many climbing gyms are $30 bucks a month with a regular gym being $14.

I buy good mechs and use builds that make money especially when equipped with seismic and derp. This game has a few things I don't need that seem a bit hefty in price but that is easily offset by the mech bay prices. Premium time is priced about the same as other games, but is is not as make or break mandatory. So I am pretty happy with the economy.

Okay I live in the west coast and have a used car, but ride my bike to work. My fishing license is actually paid for with the number of river trout I catch. So my life may not be a good comparison to the rest of disposable Murica.

California minimum wage is $9/hour, yet most combat sports gyms in LA are $100-$200 per month. Seems like you guys have it good up there.

I guess it's cheaper than paying for a lawyer and/or fines for assaulting people in the street...much in the same way that a $75 Uber ride is a steal compared to a $10000 DUI.

[Lugh]

GRiPSViGiL, on 22 July 2015 - 07:28 AM, said:

Pay2Win doesn't exist in this game. It is more like pay to not have to wait.

Pay2win only occurs if I can't buy the same thing you bought with in game currency. They have yet to sell anything for real money that cannot be bought with CB.

You are totally Dissing the Coconut monkey, he is totally pay to win.

He nods when you are doing the right thing!

[Axeface]

Kristov Kerensky, on 21 July 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

I know exactly what P2W means, I've played a number of F2P games that were P2W, you literally couldn't even complete the PvE side of them without spending money on gear that couldn't be acquired in any other fashion, and PvP in those was even worse when it came to P2W. Obviously you've never played a P2W game or you'd know the difference.

You can try to tell me that till you are blue in the face, you will still be wrong about Clan Wave 1.

GRiPSViGiL, on 22 July 2015 - 07:28 AM, said:

Pay2Win doesn't exist in this game. It is more like pay to not have to wait.

Pay2win only occurs if I can't buy the same thing you bought with in game currency. They have yet to sell anything for real money that cannot be bought with CB.

This arguement makes me laugh so hard, it is so mindboggling.

Whatever guys, keep convincing yourselves of these lies - keep fueling the p2w fire.

Edited by Axeface, 22 July 2015 - 12:01 PM.

[Lugh]

FrontGuard, on 22 July 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

I did not read this entire thred so sorry if I am repeating any ideas.

I would pay for:
a pilot name change
transfer mech from one account to another
Clear Stats option
--Nope
Nvidia Dawn Pixi cockpit item
--2000MC
special rich guy Armor - should have some way to tell if used game
--would be nice to have the old eject animation in game, your guy could be wearing a top hat and carrying a cane.
special rich guy Heat Sinks - should have some way to tell if used in game
--steam that comes off the mech changes color to green or gold ?!?
an additional mech Module
--nope this is treading in the pay to win area
an additional weapon Module
--nope this is treading in the pay to win area

Added edits for the easy hows. Make it so. Sorry some won't fly.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Axeface, on 22 July 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

You can try to tell me that till you are blue in the face, you will still be wrong about Clan Wave 1.



This arguement makes me laugh so hard, it is so mindboggling.

Whatever guys, keep convincing yourselves of these lies - keep fueling the p2w fire.

How would I be wrong? Clan Wave I was out for MC in 6 weeks after initial pre-order release, out for cbills in 8 weeks after initial pre-order release, so exactly how was that Pay 2 Win? We didn't even have CW at the time, so the only place to use Clan Mechs was in the standard solo and group ques, where winning and losing means absolutely nothing. The tourney's taking place at the time didn't allow the Clan Mechs to be used, they all still don't allow new toys to be used until they are for sell for cbills.

So how EXACTLY are these things Pay2Win? Facts here, not your opinion, but actual facts to back up your argument are required at this point, so please present them.

[FrontGuard]

Lugh

Clear Stats option
--Nope

Why? When I first stated this game I did very poorly. I ran out and would get killed in less than a minute sometimes.
Why not have a Clear Stats option?

[Eider]

Interesting points i totally agree premium time should only tick off while logged in. Another interesting point is the p2w argument. While i generally believe it is not pay to win you have to look at things from a new player perspective. Just starting out those 25 matches *likely losses in trial mechs* are not enough to get anything they maybe good with. So most view this game as pay 2 win, i have asked in other games to confirm this. I still think its a good idea to give them a choice of a few mechs after cadet bonus to dispell that.

Or just toss em a timber.

Edited by Eider, 22 July 2015 - 12:21 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Kristov Kerensky, on 22 July 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

How would I be wrong? Clan Wave I was out for MC in 6 weeks after initial pre-order release, out for cbills in 8 weeks after initial pre-order release, so exactly how was that Pay 2 Win? We didn't even have CW at the time, so the only place to use Clan Mechs was in the standard solo and group ques, where winning and losing means absolutely nothing. The tourney's taking place at the time didn't allow the Clan Mechs to be used, they all still don't allow new toys to be used until they are for sell for cbills.

So how EXACTLY are these things Pay2Win? Facts here, not your opinion, but actual facts to back up your argument are required at this point, so please present them.

Your debating how long they were Pay to Win, not if they were Pay to Win. Adding clearly superior mechs to the game for money only is in fact Pay to Win, even if they come out at a later date for in game creds.

How long Wave 1 was P2W doesnt change the facts.

The worste thing about all of this is player who got founders mechs or anyone else that paid money to support the game or for fun had their mechs turned to garbage when Wave 1 was first added. I am not talking about myself either.

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 July 2015 - 12:21 PM.

[Eider]

Johnny Z, on 22 July 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

Your debating how long they were Pay to Win, not if they were Pay to Win. Adding clearly superior mechs to the game for money only is in fact Pay to Win, even if they come out at a later date for in game creds.

How long Wave 1 was P2W doesnt change the facts.

The worste thing about all of this is player who got founders mechs or anyone else that paid money to support the game or for fun had their mechs turned to garbage when Wave 1 was first added. I am not talking about myself either.

Its actually funny, even then clanners claimed it was not pay 2 win with a 90% win ratio in secret tests. So i bought a wave one timber and was pumping out 1k matches with regularity. Its a cycle that has keept repeating, from masc today to iic in dec. It definately gives the game a pay 2 win feel.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Johnny Z, on 22 July 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

Your debating how long they were Pay to Win, not if they were Pay to Win. Adding clearly superior mechs to the game for money only is in fact Pay to Win, even if they come out at a later date for in game creds.

How long Wave 1 was P2W doesnt change the facts.

The worste thing about all of this is player who got founders mechs or anyone else that paid money to support the game or for fun had their mechs turned to garbage when Wave 1 was first added. I am not talking about myself either.

That is not Pay2Win, that is a paywall, big difference there, because you can get the Mechs for cbills, which are obtained ingame without spending a single dime. Pay2Win, you can NOT get the items unless you spend real world money, EVER, they are only purchased with real money, and they are without a doubt better than anything else in the game. Again, I've played a number of Pay2Win games, MWO is not P2W, not even close. Paywall, plenty of games have those, but the thing is, the real world money objects CAN be obtained with ingame currency at some point, in MWO that tends to be 6 to 8 weeks after initial pre-order release date. Or did you folks all miss that? I keep seeing certain people repeating that they can't be bought with cbills for 6 to 12 MONTHS, which is pure bs, a clear and obvious lie, since the release dates for MC and cbills are listed in the faqs for each package, and not a single one of them, except the UrbanMech which has no cbill release date still, are 6 to 12 months, not even close to that.

And I disagree, my Founders Atlas is not garbage, I do quite well with it still, and I know many other Founders who do well in the various Founders Mechs. I use my King Crab far more than I use my Dire Wolf, but I don't feel it made my Founders Atlas garbage either. You keep presenting your OPINIONS as facts Johnny, they aren't facts, they aren't based on data, they are based on your feelings and biased viewpoint, nothing more. Learn the difference or you'll keep looking like you do to so many of us, and we're wondering if your village misses you yet.

[Kekkone]

Kristov Kerensky, on 22 July 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

That is not Pay2Win, that is a paywall, big difference there, because you can get the Mechs for cbills, which are obtained ingame without spending a single dime. Pay2Win, you can NOT get the items unless you spend real world money, EVER, they are only purchased with real money, and they are without a doubt better than anything else in the game.

Definition of the classic black and white pay2win model.

Quote

Again, I've played a number of Pay2Win games, MWO is not P2W, not even close. Paywall, plenty of games have those, but the thing is, the real world money objects CAN be obtained with ingame currency at some point, in MWO that tends to be 6 to 8 weeks after initial pre-order release date. Or did you folks all miss that?

This is where MWO hits the gray area. The cycle of the next best thing has been constant for some time now. Power creep with every new pack, that will be available for c-bills in 6 to 8 weeks. The next best thing continues to elude the f2p playerbase continuously. Combining some well timed nerfs to the next best things when they are released for c-bills, and the gray area gets a bit darker.

On the same note are consumables. Shooting up 80k worth of UAV's and strikes in every match when you average 90k means farming a timberwolf as a f2p player will take you 1500 matches. With premium time + hero mech it will take you 183 matches. So while available for c-bills, the difference is so huge that it is not feasible for a f2p player to be as well equipped in every battle as one who pays for both premium and hero.