147 replies to this topic

[Fate 6]

TheCharlatan, on 28 July 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

I agree. We just mean different things by "brawl" and "peekaboo". What you are describing is what i'd call "peekaboo", while you consider it partly "brawl".
We don't have a "Mechwarrior dictionary" so this things happen

The definition has kinda changed. Back in closed beta sniping would be 600m and brawling would be face hugging with SRMs. Now 500-600m is mid range and fights happen outside of 200m 90% of the time. Brawling has moved to medium lasers instead of small lasers.

Trust me, I miss the true SRM range brawls at 100-180m (aSRM helix convergence pattern RIP)

[Dino Might]

Lugh, on 28 July 2015 - 05:17 AM, said:

Seriously if you pilot a 142kph light mech and you think 50 - 100m makes or breaks you, there's something wrong in your head.

.5 seconds it will take to close that distance.

I cover that distance faster, going 169kph. 50 meters is a BIG deal for me.

When I'm fighting your cheetah with my medium laser 1E, if I can keep 50m beyond your optimal range (or even a dozen or two meters further than that), I will kill you dead with full damage mediums, while your small pulse lightly glaze my armor.

When I'm juking around under the ramps on HPG manifold and want to saw off a Dire Wolf leg as he is walking by on the far side, 50 meters is the difference between full top cover and nobody seeing me and being right out in the open for 5 enemy mechs up top to massacre me in 0.2 seconds.

When we're playing Caustic NASCAR, 50m is the difference between popping up on the ridge to shoot and running into the middle of the caldera where increased heat could shut me down, I'm in full sight of the enemy, and LRMs have free reign.

Yeah...50m is a big deal (especially when you consider that is 25% or more of your weapon's optimal range).

Edited by Dino Might, 28 July 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[LordBraxton]

Fate 6, on 28 July 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

The definition has kinda changed. Back in closed beta sniping would be 600m and brawling would be face hugging with SRMs. Now 500-600m is mid range and fights happen outside of 200m 90% of the time. Brawling has moved to medium lasers instead of small lasers.

Trust me, I miss the true SRM range brawls at 100-180m (aSRM helix convergence pattern RIP)

I miss brawling in general. There is no brawling now. All we get is 2-5minutes of pokefight followed by a push and one team folding in 15-60 seconds.

[Kmieciu]

Don't know about competitive tournaments, but in PUG and group ques the Hankyu is the most dangerous light mech in the game.

The torsos are almost invulnerable to laser damage. The legs are harder to hit than Spiders and have 15 more quirked internal structure (LOL).

I have seen a 70-tonne Grasshopper in a duel with the 30-ton Hankyu, trading blows as two of them were left on the battlefield. I was spectating the Grasshopper and it hit the little bugger with every blast, but still got cored faster. GHR has a bigger CT hitbox than the whole Arctic Cheetah.

I regularly see Cheetahs stripped to the bone, with red internals still jumping and tanking shots.
Do you know that feeling when you're running full speed in a IS mech and a unlucky 2xGauss blows your XL and kills you instantly? You don't get that in AC.

Let me tell you this: in order to bring a Commando to the Cheetah level, the quirks would have to be in a 50% range. You could give it 50 additional leg structure and the Cheetah would still win every time. And how about the Spider-5V? No structure quirks despite only having 2 energy hardpoints. 2MPL vs 7C-SPL, gee I wonder who would win...

And I'm not IS-biased either. The gap between 25-ton Mist Lynx and 30-ton Arctic Cheetah is immense. And the 30-tonne Kit Fox is twice as wide as the Cheetah. I'm able to land precise blows on each and every hitbox of his. It's so easy to core, so I don't bother legging it.

I eagerly await the "Battlevalue" quirk re-balance. Mechs that are slow and underarmed should get durability quirks, not the other way around.

Edited by Kmieciu, 29 July 2015 - 11:14 PM.

[Brizna]

Arctic Cheetas have broken hit boxes, I'm surprised at the forums for not having a raging thread about it, it's far worst than Firestarters ever were because contrary to FS7, when you finally destroy a side torso the the Arctic Cheater is still on the fight.

[Viges]

Brizna, on 30 July 2015 - 03:04 AM, said:

Arctic Cheetas have broken hit boxes, I'm surprised at the forums for not having a raging thread about it

Most people that still are playing this game own it, so they only were not happy about shad cats that couldn't alpha 100500 lazorz at once...

They are also not happy about queue times...

Coincidence?

[Brizna]

Viges, on 30 July 2015 - 03:12 AM, said:

Most people that still are playing this game own it, so they only were not happy about shad cats that couldn't alpha 100500 lazorz at once...

They are also not happy about queue times...

Coincidence?

I do suspect that may be the underlying reason.

[TheCharlatan]

Brizna, on 30 July 2015 - 03:04 AM, said:

Arctic Cheetas have broken hit boxes, I'm surprised at the forums for not having a raging thread about it, it's far worst than Firestarters ever were because contrary to FS7, when you finally destroy a side torso the the Arctic Cheater is still on the fight.

While i do agree, the Arctic Cheetah has some pretty vulnerable legs.
ALWAYS shoot at ACH legs.
Anyhow, they are still the best lights in the game.

[Weeny Machine]

LordBraxton, on 28 July 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

I miss brawling in general. There is no brawling now. All we get is 2-5minutes of pokefight followed by a push and one team folding in 15-60 seconds.

What you see is the synergy of
- low TTK
- high alphas
- long range at which this damage can be inflicted thank to hitscan weapons (laser)
- low risk, high reward for peek-a-boo gameplay

Why risk a brawl when you just do peek-a-boo and can hunker down when you get fired at or cooldown

[Brizna]

TheCharlatan, on 30 July 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

While i do agree, the Arctic Cheetah has some pretty vulnerable legs.
ALWAYS shoot at ACH legs.
Anyhow, they are still the best lights in the game.

I'll take that in mind, that is not a fix though, it is a crutch. It's like people asking you to bring streaks to deal with it. I don't need streaks to kill locusts, firestarters... sure I could kill them with streaks easier but I can still aim, hit them and either destroy them or if them lucky send them limping back home, Arctic cheaters nope, you can alpha them and damage will magically spread all over the place, and some of it must disappear because yesterday I connected 4 AC20 and 3 2xSRM4 volleys on an ACHs torsos that were already damaged and I didn't kill the damn thing, quite the contrary I ended going down. Someone was expectating me and we both had a conversation about it between amused chuckles.

[Murphy7]

Quote

Arctic Cheetah has some pretty vulnerable legs.
ALWAYS shoot at ACH legs.
Anyhow, they are still the best lights in the game.

All around, yes. Still, in a one-on-one duel, my money is on the Firestarter (FS9-A or FS9-S) pilot. They have the requisite maneuverability, firepower, to make the duel a matter of pilot skill and positioning, and the FS9-(A or S) has better heat endurance than the ACH mechs (aside from a non-ECM C variant, which can be on par with those two Firestarters).

Large caliber ballistics in the hands of those who can aim absolutely can tear the ACH apart. Yes, a dual Gauss ripping a side torso off is not an instakill thanks to Clan XL engines, but half a mech or hitting the CT will still ruin an ACH's day.

Much as people like to complain about this mech or that mech, we need to look at how we are playing the game ourselves.

I am at best a mediocre pilot, light mech or otherwise. I am enjoying the ACH, best mech in the Wave 3 Ebon Jag package for me.

I have come across SCrows/Mad Dogs who are streak boating without active probe - the problem isn't the ACH being OP for these guys.

I have come across people who insist on aiming high where I can twist and spread damage, rather than low where I can't and both front and back are the same armor on the legs.

The most dangerous thing I come across in the ACH is a Firestarter who knows what they are doing, of which there are plenty and their skill > my skill, they win. Which of course means they win far more often than I do, as there are a lot of people who play this game better than I.

Edited by Murphy7, 30 July 2015 - 06:26 AM.

[TheCharlatan]

Murphy7, on 30 July 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

All around, yes. Still, in a one-on-one duel, my money is on the Firestarter (FS9-A or FS9-S) pilot. They have the requisite maneuverability, firepower, to make the duel a matter of pilot skill and positioning, and the FS9-(A or S) has better heat endurance than the ACH mechs (aside from a non-ECM C variant, which can be on par with those two Firestarters).

Large caliber ballistics in the hands of those who can aim absolutely can tear the ACH apart. Yes, a dual Gauss ripping a side torso off is not an instakill thanks to Clan XL engines, but half a mech or hitting the CT will still ruin an ACH's day.

Much as people like to complain about this mech or that mech, we need to look at how we are playing the game ourselves.

I am at best a mediocre pilot, light mech or otherwise. I am enjoying the ACH, best mech in the Wave 3 Ebon Jag package for me.

I have come across SCrows/Mad Dogs who are streak boating without active probe - the problem isn't the ACH being OP for these guys.

I have come across people who insist on aiming high where I can twist and spread damage, rather than low where I can't and both front and back are the same armor on the legs.

The most dangerous thing I come across in the ACH is a Firestarter who knows what they are doing, of which there are plenty and their skill > my skill, they win. Which of course means they win far more often than I do, as there are a lot of people who play this game better than I.

On a 1v1 situation, the Firestarter will fight the ACH on an even level. The Firestarter is a great mech too, maybe even better as a dogfighter/brawler.
But the ACH also has ECM. That brings utility for the whole team to the mech, something the Firestarter simply does not have.
Edit: i'm not trying to bring forth the idea that the ACH is OP. Just that it's the best all-round light mech, and has basically no weakness except the legs, something that is shared between all the light mechs.
Other mechs might be better in some niches, but no one can do all that the ACH does at the same time.

Edited by TheCharlatan, 30 July 2015 - 06:32 AM.

[Murphy7]

Quote

On a 1v1 situation, the Firestarter will fight the ACH on an even level. The Firestarter is a great mech too, maybe even better as a dogfighter/brawler.
But the ACH also has ECM. That brings utility for the whole team to the mech, something the Firestarter simply does not have.

Firestarters have been getting plenty done for their teams for a while now, without ECM. As an aside I look forward to ECM having it's range reduced and efficacy reduced overall, as I think it would be good for the game across the board.

I get to enjoy the Arctic Cheetah in pug and group queue games, but for CW I have to face them. I will choose to face them in Firestarters, and let the chips fall where they will. It's good that the clans get a light on par with the best the Inner Sphere has to offer. I still like our chances in the Inner Sphere against these mechs.

[Fate 6]

TheCharlatan, on 30 July 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

On a 1v1 situation, the Firestarter will fight the ACH on an even level. The Firestarter is a great mech too, maybe even better as a dogfighter/brawler.
But the ACH also has ECM. That brings utility for the whole team to the mech, something the Firestarter simply does not have.
Edit: i'm not trying to bring forth the idea that the ACH is OP. Just that it's the best all-round light mech, and has basically no weakness except the legs, something that is shared between all the light mechs.
Other mechs might be better in some niches, but no one can do all that the ACH does at the same time.

The weakness of the ACH is limited range. It's super risky against smart opponents as a result. If you give it range you might as well just play a Raven instead.

It's really a matter of testing in comp drops since PUG drops are a crap shoot

[Greenjulius]

If anyone wants more range with the Cheetah, I'd recommend a 4xMPL build, as long as you use the "C" side torsos for a combined 12.5% heat reduction to pulse lasers. It has much better range than the FS9-S, but also runs much hotter.

Still, the 6xSPL ACH with both C side torsos is still the most deadly. Heat endurance + high alphas + Clan XL = Damn good light.

[topgun505]

You can have my ARC, when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

[Lugh]

LordBraxton, on 28 July 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

I miss brawling in general. There is no brawling now. All we get is 2-5minutes of pokefight followed by a push and one team folding in 15-60 seconds.

I brawl all the time? I love brawling. I do it well.

But yes the one team folding in no time flat thing happens very often.

Murphy7, on 30 July 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

Firestarters have been getting plenty done for their teams for a while now, without ECM. As an aside I look forward to ECM having it's range reduced and efficacy reduced overall, as I think it would be good for the game across the board.

I get to enjoy the Arctic Cheetah in pug and group queue games, but for CW I have to face them. I will choose to face them in Firestarters, and let the chips fall where they will. It's good that the clans get a light on par with the best the Inner Sphere has to offer. I still like our chances in the Inner Sphere against these mechs.

Yup they are very evenly matched.

[Lightfoot]

Working on the Cheetah now, seems good for a Light. The desire is there to stand and fight, but with Lights you hit and fade and try to attack from an unsuspected point.

Edited by Lightfoot, 30 July 2015 - 08:30 AM.

[Djinnhammer]

Dies for me 1st time I got alpha'd to death by a skillssault:P I do much better in Adders and Kitfoxes to be honest. Rather engage at range or bring a light that has more use i.e a triple ams+ecm Kitfox. At least that way I'm more use to my team.
Run around in an ACH with close range weapons and the 1st competent heavy or assault you face and you will be derped.

[Raziberry]

The Arctic Cheetah "craze" is still going strong, I see a couple in every game, and when you keep in mind that lights are the least used weight class, that's pretty good!

The ACH is one of the best light 'Mechs in the game, but at the end of the day, most people are NOT light pilots.