264 replies to this topic

[Spleenslitta]

Imagine the ruckus when the ECM range get's chopped down to half!
I'll be glad when ECM affects only a small 60-90 meters radius like Paul said in this thread -

• A Significant Change To Ecm

Then i won't be automaticly assigned as the assault mech babysitter in my Cute Fox.
It'll be even better if ECM only affects the wearer of the device.

If LRM's tear you to pieces it's your own fault OP. Make use of cover to shield yourself from the LRM downpour.

[Vellron2005]

As the guy who's mechs ALWAYS pack at lease one LRM10, and more often an LRM15 or LRM20, I say this to you..

Beeing a deticated LRM boat with nothing but LRM's... not advisable.. waaaay to much ECM out there... But..

Suppliment those LRM's with lasers or a nice AC20.. any you can expect to be deadly regardless of ECM, and at all ranges.

Many would say that "Competative teams don't use LRMs", and they would be right, but LRM's give you the option of making lots of kill assists, and simply harrasing the enemy. They are a weapon that controls the battlefield, as you have to take care to be in cover, or feel the rain.

Latelly, I too have noticed an increase in LRM use, and only yesterday, I lost a mech in seconds to some heavy LRM rain.. but hey, I guess It was my own fault.. I was on Caustic, smack dead in the open.. so yeah.. shame on me.

LRM's are NOT OP..
LRM's are not underpowered

LRM's ARE usefull..

And all those who feel differently... Kiss my Rear Torso.

[Kilo 40]

RedDevil, on 26 July 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

These threads keep coming up for a reason.

2 reasons actually.

1. a new player just got killed by LRMs and they are very annoyed by that. so they mope and fret over it and come up with reasons why they shouldn't have been killed by them and they decided that it MUST be a no skill scrub weapon because, obviously, they are a mechwarrior god!

2. a veteran player decided to play the solo queue instead of group queue for the night and got killed by LRMs and they are very annoyed by that. so they mope and fret over it and come up with reasons why they shouldn't have been killed by them and they decided that it MUST be a no skill weapon because, obviously, they are a mechwarrior god!

[Widowmaker1981]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

You do need LoS when using lasers. You fail miserably
There are big difference in using direct fire weapons and indirect fire weapons in the game, with lasers you need to expose yourself to direct enemy fire, thus you will need to aim more precisely to get more damage/faster kills, also you need to actively avoid taking damage by using cover or spreading damage over your mech.
With LRM you just point in the general direction, wait a second or two then press a button.

Laser Boat VS LRM boat:

Laser boat peeks from behind cover. Shoots LRM boat in the face. During this time the LRM boat has acquired lock and fires. INCOMING MISSILES! Laser Boat backs up behind cover and giggles while missiles splash harmlessly into terrain. Rinse, repeat until LRM boat is dead. Damage taken by laser boat = zero. Mechs move slow in this game and lasers are hitscan, hitting most enemies (tracking fast lights is a pain, granted) is not hard unless you have some kind of disability.

LRMs are completely useless, and their only use is their ability to piggy back off someone elses lock and punish enemy brawlers (assuming that there arent 6 ECM mechs per team, and you can even get a lock, lol). They do need a complete rework, but not because they are OP, because they suck.

[STEF_]

WTF..... when I drop, I rarely see someone with lrm.....

And when I see it, it's the first to die.

How's that?

[Yellonet]

All right guys, thank you, there are some good pointers among the expected hate.
Apparently there's still some things to talk about when it comes to LRM.
And obviously I'm new to the game but I'll play on and try to get better...

*mumble* ...now which is the cheapest mech with ECM hmm.... *mumble*

Edited by Yellonet, 27 July 2015 - 03:18 AM.

[Thunder Child]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up Dino Might. I must have misinterpreted what DrxAbstract was saying (in which case, my apologies).

I agree that LRMs in their current form need to change. I remember the old days too (I mastered my Catapults in the 0.8 days), and I also remember running commandos and jenners, and being able to Jink missiles at the last second. The current super mega ultra tracking is ridiculous. I would like to see the difficulty level in using them go up too. Especially Indirect Fire. It's why I like the idea of making them follow the crosshair (within reason), and with a Speed Buff to make them harder to steer, and perhaps a spread increase, this could be one way of rebalancing them.

That said, having re-read what both you and DrxAbstract have written, I find myself agreeing that it would be a viable fix while retaining the current system (which PGI would like, as it means less work).

Please consider this a formal apology DrxAbstract. I wrote in haste and without fully reading and comprehending your argument, and just wrote it off as more LRM Hate.

[Hit the Deck]

Yellonet, on 27 July 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

*mumble* ...now which is the cheapest mech with ECM hmm.... *mumble*

Rather than buying an ECM 'Mech, have you tried playing as an LRM 'Mech? It's always good to see from both sides.

[Joseph Mallan]

bad arcade kitty, on 27 July 2015 - 12:30 AM, said:

to protect the world from devastation!

And Unite all people in our nation.

(Thats the wrong Rocket I think)

[bad arcade kitty]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 July 2015 - 03:35 AM, said:

And Unite all people in our nation.

(Thats the wrong Rocket I think)

~20 minutes ago i cried that slogan in the chat (everybody cried something for some reason, mostly related to saving frodo) and got 4 kills 600 damage in my rocket crow :3

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 27 July 2015 - 03:40 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

bad arcade kitty, on 27 July 2015 - 03:40 AM, said:

~20 minutes ago i cried that slogan in the chat (everybody cried something for some reason, mostly related to saving frodo) and got 4 kills 600 damage in my rocket crow :3

You must have shouted it wrong. When said properly, You launch skyward at escape velocity.

[stjobe]

Yellonet, on 27 July 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

*mumble* ...now which is the cheapest mech with ECM hmm.... *mumble*

Commando COM-2D @ 715 MC or 1,781.542 CB.

[Joseph Mallan]

stjobe, on 27 July 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

Commando COM-2D @ 715 MC or 1,781.542 CB.

Before or after Upgrades? I have one I just don't remember.

[Lily from animove]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

The last few days I've been playing in the rain... of missiles.
I'd say that in half the matches I've played recently, LRM boats have been the deciding factor of which team wins the fight.
In some matches there is literally a constant downpour of LRM's, and as ECM is pretty rare and avoiding LRM's in a slow mech is nigh impossible I'd say that right now LRM's are overpowered.

It just makes for very boring gameplay when you spend several minutes getting into position, then all of the sudden a light mech runs past and spots you, then the rain begins and if you're not near some cover you're dead.

Also, AMS isn't all that effective when you have a hundred missiles coming your way.

Using LRM's shouldn't be as easy to use as it is now, just wait for someone to lock a target, then spam away with missiles.

Either ECM should be made available for many more mech models or the use of LRM's should be made more difficult. I'd say that the latter is the better alternative.

My suggestion would be to make LRM's unable to lock on target unless you have either visual contact with the target or if you have visual contact (think of it as a line of sight data link) with the spotter. This would make spotting for LRM boats more of a skill as you will have to have both the LRM boat and the target in light of sight, also positioning of the LRM mech would become more important.

well, the only thing lrm's realiable kill are noobs and people in bad positioning. The amount of people unable to spot UAV's, thats truly OP for the opponent. LRM's are dead in high elo, because everyone and his grandma counters them:

ecm, walls, rocks, buildings, broken line of sights,

most people using them as additional loadout nowdays, and use them with full line of sight, because that ensures more of a real chance to hit stuff. but even then, they are rather bad, because they spread damage which is not the best thing to do as well if you wanna efficiently kill a mech as quick as possible.

They are a nice tool for surpresion and annoyance, but hardly more.

Edited by Lily from animove, 27 July 2015 - 06:27 AM.

[Vandul]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

The last few days I've been playing in the rain... of missiles.
I'd say that in half the matches I've played recently, LRM boats have been the deciding factor of which team wins the fight.
In some matches there is literally a constant downpour of LRM's, and as ECM is pretty rare and avoiding LRM's in a slow mech is nigh impossible I'd say that right now LRM's are overpowered.

It just makes for very boring gameplay when you spend several minutes getting into position, then all of the sudden a light mech runs past and spots you, then the rain begins and if you're not near some cover you're dead.

Also, AMS isn't all that effective when you have a hundred missiles coming your way.

Using LRM's shouldn't be as easy to use as it is now, just wait for someone to lock a target, then spam away with missiles.

Either ECM should be made available for many more mech models or the use of LRM's should be made more difficult. I'd say that the latter is the better alternative.

My suggestion would be to make LRM's unable to lock on target unless you have either visual contact with the target or if you have visual contact (think of it as a line of sight data link) with the spotter. This would make spotting for LRM boats more of a skill as you will have to have both the LRM boat and the target in light of sight, also positioning of the LRM mech would become more important.

What a new and refreshing topic. I am sure its never been discussed before.

[stjobe]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 July 2015 - 04:02 AM, said:

Before or after Upgrades? I have one I just don't remember.

That's the purchase price, so before upgrades. It doesn't even come with ECM installed (400,000 CB).

You need about 7,000,000 CB to fully upgrade it.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Have you tried NOT standing in the open?

I mean... LRMs are just god awful compared to direct fire. Their only roles are area denial and target suppression. Sure you can kill people who like to stand around in the open but ECM stops a lot of that. Sure you can and should TAG am ECM mech and it's always best to see your target for artemis regardless but 2ECM shuts your missile boat down completely.

So... I'm not really seeing your point.

That being said LRMs probably need a complete redesign so they can be good without being overpowered (those who remember LRMpoccalypse 2013 and 2014 know that ever fairly slight buffs to the current LRMs make them become death destroyer of mechs). I'd suggest grouping missiles into groups of 5 and having them target a bone like streaks but with more limited tracking and increase their speed substantially to make them somewhat competitive with direct fire weapons but increase cooldown by 2 or even 3 times to balance them out and reduce LRM spam. This would also allow you to not need so much ammo and allow LRMs to be a decent secondary weapon.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 27 July 2015 - 04:39 AM.

[Lugh]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

The last few days I've been playing in the rain... of missiles.
I'd say that in half the matches I've played recently, LRM boats have been the deciding factor of which team wins the fight.
In some matches there is literally a constant downpour of LRM's, and as ECM is pretty rare and avoiding LRM's in a slow mech is nigh impossible I'd say that right now LRM's are overpowered.

It just makes for very boring gameplay when you spend several minutes getting into position, then all of the sudden a light mech runs past and spots you, then the rain begins and if you're not near some cover you're dead.

Also, AMS isn't all that effective when you have a hundred missiles coming your way.

Using LRM's shouldn't be as easy to use as it is now, just wait for someone to lock a target, then spam away with missiles.

Either ECM should be made available for many more mech models or the use of LRM's should be made more difficult. I'd say that the latter is the better alternative.

My suggestion would be to make LRM's unable to lock on target unless you have either visual contact with the target or if you have visual contact (think of it as a line of sight data link) with the spotter. This would make spotting for LRM boats more of a skill as you will have to have both the LRM boat and the target in light of sight, also positioning of the LRM mech would become more important.

If you are having trouble v LRM boats you are doing it wrong. Your fast movers should feel free to engage them as they are free kills.

[Novakaine]

bad arcade kitty, on 27 July 2015 - 03:40 AM, said:

~20 minutes ago i cried that slogan in the chat (everybody cried something for some reason, mostly related to saving frodo) and got 4 kills 600 damage in my rocket crow :3

Noobs man just n00bs.

[Josef Koba]

I have to agree with some of what's already posted, mostly that I've literally never seen this much ECM in the solo queue. Last night I saw the OPFOR field three Arctic Cheetahs and three Shadow Cats. All with ECM. They also had a Raven and one of those new Cataphracts. And a Hellbringer. That's nine mechs out of twelve that had ECM (potentially - I only saw four of the first six with ECM once they got in behind me and wrecked us). I don't think I got a dorito the whole match and had to fire without any target information. I'm not going to complain about ECM; I try to avoid complaining about much in the game because you lot do it for me and I'm just echoing, but I can't think of a worse time to run an LRM boat. I like to run mixed builds on my King Crab (Gauss, medium lasers, LRM15, 3 x Streaks) and my LRMs are for little more than suppressing fire in those brief moments I get lock. And forget the Streaks when you've got two light/medium ECM carriers running about. That Cheetah with six or seven or however many small lasers, AND ECM, is a pain. Well, till he took two Gauss to the face, but still. And I thought the Firestarter was a tough hombre...

Anyway, everyone has covered the how to not die from LRMs angle pretty well, too. LRMs CAN be very effective in the right circumstances. You've been on the receiving end of those circumstances, it seems.