21 replies to this topic

[Tormund]

Hey, hi, hello!

New player here. I've been a fan of battletech ever since I discovered it back in middle school, so when I got back to it as of late and fired up this game, I was blown away. I'm seriously enjoying it and I especially love the helpful forum community.

I started out, naturally, completely gash at all manners of piloting until I saved up enough to get my hands on Hunchback 4SP, and immediately fell in love with it. It's not as mobile as some mediums, I'd say, but it's very survivable unless you show 'em that wide backside. All in all, I find myself having some really enjoyable games in it.

Thing is, I want to get more versatile, so I've been going for heavier mechs. Naturally, trials are not as good as the real thing that you can tweak and pimp, but I find myself doing far less damage and dying far more quickly in those things than in my mediums.

Especially when it comes to assaults, which pretty much guarantees you as a prime target.

I've been trying to pinpoint my exact mistake and it seems I try to rely on mobility too much when there is none. Proper positioning throughout the round is something I need to get a hang of, and if you guys have some other tips aside that, I'd greatly appreciate.

TL;DR version - I keep dying in heavies and assaults way too much. What do.

Very happy to be here, lads. Good hunting to whoever reads, and best of luck.

[Audacious Aubergine]

A common tip I see offered is combat/situational awareness. Knowing that you can't move in and out of an engagement as fast as a medium or a light, instead wait until you see the group making a coordinated push and then move in to support them. This way, they will also be supporting you and diverting a bit of enemy fire away from you.
Alternatively, play defensively. Rather than charging headlong into what is usually a cluster of enemies, wait around the corner of a known attack corridor and unload when someone comes into view. Or, if you're chasing someone in circles, rather than following after them, try changing direction and see if you can run into them on the other side of the circle. This works in close range brawls too, especially in an assault with a more limited torso twist range.
It boils down too to which heavies and assaults you're piloting too. Some can be surprisingly agile, others are about as slow as you'd expect

[Lily from animove]

It would be good to know in which heavies and assaults you keep dying. Otherwise you only get mainstream tipps, like: watch other pilots of those chassis when you are dead and see how they play theirs, and if they lay it good or bad. lern from the good ones, and lern from the bad ones what to avaid.

Mainstream answer: get a Timberwolf!, or maybe a mad dog. they are both also rather agile. Clan heavies in general are rather speedy and cna pack firepower. exception may be the Summoner due to fixed equipment. If you want to stick with IS emchs, well TDR5SS would eb a good meta choice, and should make our life rather easy to gather mroe cbills for more mechs and stuff.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 July 2015 - 01:20 AM.

[Anunknownlurker]

I have a similar problem. Most of my rides are lights or mediums and that playstyle seems to suit me and I have struggled in heavies (daren't touch assaults).

I think when you get to the fatties, map and situational awareness are key as you don't have speed and mobility to rely on to relocate, run away or hide.

Heavies are very vulnerable to lights so never, ever be alone, always ensure you have some help. If there is none, then go find it, ask in comms, do ANYTHING to find a friend; if the enemy Firestarter sees you have a little helper he will probably go hunting for an easier target.

Heavies have firepower. Keep those guns singing, if you aren't shootin' you ain't working! Yes, you can tank a bit of damage but IMHO that's the assaults job.

On a final note; one thing I love about this game is the variety, there is a mech/chassis/variant for everybody (me? I simply love Cicadas, I could happily play only them). There is no imperative to "grind" to heavy or assault. Each mech class has its role and it could be that you are a true medium pilot. Just a thought...

[Recognition]

If you ever want unlock the master skills on your hunchbacks, the next 2 you should get are the HBK-4G (Ballistic Boat) and the HBK-4P (Laser Boat).

These variants offer strong builds such as...

HBK-4G
Fastest firing single AC/20 (25% cooldown/range/velocity on the AC/20 mount):
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...884dc7e5829a0f4

HBK-4P
6 Medium Laser / 2 Pulse Medium Laser Boat -
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5a5333507f9a3ea
2 Pulses are offhand weapons to avoid ghost heat and reliably dps light mechs while cooling down.

Never have an extended brawl in this mech or in any medium mech. Focus fire with a teammate already distracting an enemy or flank. The Hunchback is slow but excellent at hill poking because anything you see, you can definitely shoot.

[sycocys]

It might seem counter-intuitive but my suggestion is to grab a set of Commando's or Firestarter's.

Yes they are indeed zippy lights, but they are the two best humanoid lights to learn about damage spreading and angle of attack/defense from and this skill translates right up through the assaults. Learning to brawl in something with no armor at all will go a long way in teaching you the ways to engage with the heavier mechs.

[Tormund]

Great tips so far! Thanks to everyone who responded. As a hunchie, I found myself either trying to put some rounds into targets from medium range, from the second line, or sticking with heavier, meaner teammates to get some cheeky flanking shots while they draw fire.

As someone looking to get into heavies I have my eyes on Jagermech for that first role and Dragon for the second. Considering both can be outfitted with serious ballistic power, they both pack a good punch, it'd seem.

I know that Jagermech is highly vulnerable and best used for peeking, and I know Dragon has a huge CT and has no place in an all-out brawl. A lot of people advise Catapult instead but, that seems more like a Jagermech's cousin than a Dragon's one. Besides, it's pretty mobile, even without the XL engine. From the looks of it, almost like a beefy medium, which is something instantly attractive to me.

If anyone could advise a good mech to learn the traditional damage sponge assault in, that'd be grand. I've been a fan of Highlander since I got into Battletech, but it's hardly a good decision to make based on just that.

[sycocys]

Well it's not really recommended to be a damage sponge in any mech, but if you want something that will give you a fighting chance the Stalkers do well, and the Atlases can.

A bit less beefy but I also run the Battlemasters - you can get the Hellslinger rocking a ridiculous alpha (74.4 or so from the last time I checked mine) to compensate for its lesser armor - this is extremely fun if you have a wing mate or two to help you gain position, and the 3M can run all MPL and keep up with the TDRs with a 400xl.

Crabs do quite well too, but god are they slow... well most assaults are and speaking of that it really can be a nightmare to skill them up so keep that in mind.


--- I just double checked that Hellslinger - 80.7 alpha with 4 mpl, 2 LL, 3 srm6
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4be0915a1824c02

I believe that's the latest loadout I was running on that fun mech.

Edited by sycocys, 23 July 2015 - 04:54 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

I have exactly the same problem,

I am pretty good with IS Lights and Mediums, and Clan Mediums and Heavies, I am not so good with IS Heavies (because most are not really fast enough for my playstyle) and I am pretty bad with most assaults, I have determined that to be effective I need a Mech which can move at 80KPH+ (preferably 120), it is all down to play style and lack of enjoyment of the slower moving Mechs.
I worked this out about 2 years ago.

I play to my strengths and do reasonably well, but I know if I try to use the Atlas, Dire Wolf, King Crab, Stalker or any of the other slow assaults it is highly unlikely I will break 200 damage or survive the match, I am not that bad in the faster assaults, and can do pretty well in an XL400 Battlemaster.

if you do not like one specific weight class then you do not have to use them, even for CW the minimum tonnage will allow you to take 3 Light Mechs if you so chose

[Spike Brave]

I made a brawling tutorial which features the Grasshopper. It may give you some ideas.

Edited by Spike Brave, 23 July 2015 - 06:13 AM.

[Koniving]

Tormund, on 22 July 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

Hey, hi, hello!

New player here. I've been a fan of battletech ever since I discovered it back in middle school, so when I got back to it as of late and fired up this game, I was blown away. I'm seriously enjoying it and I especially love the helpful forum community.

Welcome.

Quote

I started out, naturally, completely gash at all manners of piloting until I saved up enough to get my hands on Hunchback 4SP, and immediately fell in love with it. It's not as mobile as some mediums, I'd say, but it's very survivable unless you show 'em that wide backside. All in all, I find myself having some really enjoyable games in it.

Thing is, I want to get more versatile, so I've been going for heavier mechs. Naturally, trials are not as good as the real thing that you can tweak and pimp, but I find myself doing far less damage and dying far more quickly in those things than in my mediums.

Especially when it comes to assaults, which pretty much guarantees you as a prime target.

I've been trying to pinpoint my exact mistake and it seems I try to rely on mobility too much when there is none. Proper positioning throughout the round is something I need to get a hang of, and if you guys have some other tips aside that, I'd greatly appreciate.

TL;DR version - I keep dying in heavies and assaults way too much. What do.

Very happy to be here, lads. Good hunting to whoever reads, and best of luck.

You've hit the nail on the head. Even for some mediums designed to hit heavy-and-hard, proper positioning is far more important than maneuverability. In fact, under the right conditions you can sacrifice maneuverability even on a Locust for a heavy dose of firepower provided that you can master good positioning skills.

There are a few things that are taught in Basic Combat Training (BCT) of the U.S. Army that could help you in this game and perhaps in many games.

• At all times but especially when you are not mobile, minimize your firing arc. This is the range in front of you that you must cover with your weapon(s) to take down enemies. The larger it is, the harder it is to cover it, the more likely you will be ambushed and slaughtered.
  
  • A small, narrow firing arc allows you to rapidly address all targets within the arc with maximum efficiency of target detection, time to engagement, and consumed firepower in target elimination versus suppressive efforts.
    
  • A wide arc opens you up to lost time switching between targets, distractions such as having to look away from one enemy to track what other enemies are up to, increasing the possibilities of getting flanked, sharp-shot while distracted or overwhelmed.
    
  • You can minimize your arc by ensuring that yours compliment's your allies' arcs. You can use buildings or other hard obstacles to create tight, narrow passage ways for enemies to ingress in your line of sight. Take advantage of features such as walls by backing into them, preventing rear attacks and thus reducing the overall arc you need to worry about.

Slow Quickdraw fighting in fairly narrow arc. Lots of kills in less than 2 minutes. This is the result of perfect positioning and good timing in a mech that would have otherwise been torn asunder.

A valiant fight when the arcs are too big. Filmed using a Thunderbolt. We do what we can to narrow our firing arcs, using geometry to whatever advantages we can considering our close range weaponry, but ultimately it's still too much to cover.

Supported firing lanes make a nearly impossible final stand possible. Myself and this Awesome (piloted by Lordred) are making a final stand against an overwhelming enemy force. Filmed using a Clan Warhawk (Masakari) Omnimech. By covering each other's weak spot we were able to hold off an L-shaped three prong attack consisting of sharp shooters and heavy hitters, fending off several ECM-lights, multiple Timber Wolves and Dire Wolves, and doing so in what had been often considered the worst Clan assault mech (of the time) and the worst IS assault mech of all time (in terms of MWO). Despite the overwhelming advantage the enemy possessed at the start of the video, it ends in a draw of 1 versus 1. (Fun fact: the Awesome has an XL engine and 214 points of total armor.)

• Exchange enemy focus. In an environment where teamwork is possible, it is imperative to know how to exchange the enemy focus. That is to say draw attention away from an ally before it becomes overwhelmed, and then exchange it back into that ally's hands before it overwhelms you. You will see common examples of this in both the battlefield and in movies. Example: "Cover me!" is a request for one soldier or group to draw the enemy focus away from a certain individual. "Reloading" is a similar request as well as a statement that they will be momentarily combat ineffective and could be easily overwhelmed if left unsupported.
  
  • When heavy fire comes your way, having a comrade that can draw attention away from you is very useful. Likewise when you see an ally getting hammered you can draw the enemy focus onto yourself, allowing that player to recover.
    
  • When it is not possible to exchange the focus onto another individual, it is imperative that you exchange the focus onto another part of yourself.

Supported firing arc plus alternating bullet sponges. First minute features a firing pattern that exchanges the closest target for the enemy to focus on, allowing all members involved to tank a bit more until the enemy overheats, runs out of ammo, or makes a mistake. Filmed using a Misery (Stalker Hero)


Exchanging enemy focus from yourself to yourself. In this, there's a moment when a Jagerbomb drops in front of me and hammers me down at a critically vulnerable moment. While trying to start the engine back up, I am already making the plan to tank the enemy fire into my side and rear before it kills me, and then return a moment later after cooling off to finish that enemy as well as several more. Filmed in a Hunchback 4P. (If you rewind to the beginning of the video, you'll see how that Hunchback is made as I build it right before the match).

Atlas fighting in a wide arc but having the ability to exchange focus with another mech.
(Commando did not record his voice. My voice -- the one joking about flamers -- is the only one in this match that matters. All other voices are in a separate match in a different game mode but we are all hanging out together. At the time PGI had a limit of 4 players in a group to mix with the solo players; we were a 2 person group).

There's plenty more advice to give but I don't want to overwhelm you. For a couple of quickies, note that Atlases can and have used their arms to deflect IS AC/20s without twisting their bodies. It is possible and has been done. Left CTRL is your friend (when armlock is off). The other two quickies are thus: Sometimes the most illogical place to shoot is the best (test for weak spots in armor; you'd be shocked what people skimp on), and it's 35 damage to score a headshot, it's only a maximum of 30 damage to destroy a Locust by side torso.

Just some food for thought. Will check back in with more responses soon-ish.

(Edit: I'm OCD about my grammar. "Lands makes" changed to "lanes make")

Edited by Koniving, 23 July 2015 - 08:37 AM.

[Sarlic]

As for The Atlas, perhaps my guide comes in handy:
http://mwomercs.com/...he-new-players/

For the rest basically what Koniving said. Nice post!

[Tormund]

Incredible, massive piece of advice, Koniving. Thanks a whole lot! I'm looking forward to improving by it. Thanks again for such an investment of useful information and great formatting.

And Sarlic, I've had the pleasure of reading through your guide the other day. It's very well done. Thanks for showing it to me nonetheless!

[Leone]

Tormund, on 23 July 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

As someone looking to get into heavies I have my eyes on Jagermech for that first role and Dragon for the second. Considering both can be outfitted with serious ballistic power, they both pack a good punch, it'd seem.

I mostly Play Community Warfare. Both of these are top priority targets for me, and usually get focused down before even an assualt would. In fact, I can still remember a [228] pilot who brought mostly Jagermechs and picked up nine kills on me over an evening of playing just last week. (We kept dropping on the same planet.)

The reason why is not their tankiness, it's their firepower. Seriously, your ballistics output is your armour. Any mech you are firing upon should rightly be panicking and trying to get behind cover unless your wounded and they aren't. Problem is, if you ever get spotted by more'n one mech, everyone should be shooting you, an you can't stand upto that.

So yeah, Listen to Koniving. Lotta answers there.

Tormund, on 23 July 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

If anyone could advise a good mech to learn the traditional damage sponge assault in, that'd be grand. I've been a fan of Highlander since I got into Battletech, but it's hardly a good decision to make based on just that.

While the highlander is on sale, an I should prolly pick it up, my assualts, which do well enough for me, are the Man' O' War, and the Banshee. Realistically, the best tank is a light, who can avoid most of the damage thrown at them, but after that, the Banshee is a 95 ton tank with near maximum armour, but gloriously empty arms that are prefect for blocking side shots. Problem is, not much variety of good builds for me. Some awesome builds, but I don't play it all that often unless there's an event on.

My 'Goyle is just slightly tankier than a Madcat, and runs the same speed. Honestly, in every respect, except fielding just a bit more armour or more lasers, you should prolly go Madcat. But! I do have more armour.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 24 July 2015 - 07:55 PM.

[Rhavin]

Best tip in a slow heavy or assault, is always know where you are going and why you are going there in addition to how you are going to get there. Being out of position in a heavy mech is like overheating in a light, its a deathblow. you will get focused by the enemy bigs that are in the right spots, rained on by every lrm boat out there and circle scrapped by every light mech with a machine gun within 400 range till you are dead dead dead.

[Tormund]

All of this advice is quite solid not only for heavies, but for the beefier mediums as well. While saving up the money required for the classic 2x AC/5 2x ML Dragon, I put a lot of it to good use on my hunchback and came out in lots of games with 400 damage or more.

I then purchased the Dragon 1-N and built it with twin AC/5s, twin MLs for backup, XL300, and small tweaks like C.A.S.E. and AMS. Endosteel and double heatsinks, too. So far, I'm loving it. The first two games, even without great support from the team I ended up doing 250-260 damage, which, considering how terrible I was in the hunchie at first, is a great sign.

Thank you all again.

[Koniving]

Tormund, on 23 July 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

Great tips so far! Thanks to everyone who responded. As a hunchie, I found myself either trying to put some rounds into targets from medium range, from the second line, or sticking with heavier, meaner teammates to get some cheeky flanking shots while they draw fire.

As someone looking to get into heavies I have my eyes on Jagermech for that first role and Dragon for the second. Considering both can be outfitted with serious ballistic power, they both pack a good punch, it'd seem.

I know that Jagermech is highly vulnerable and best used for peeking, and I know Dragon has a huge CT and has no place in an all-out brawl. A lot of people advise Catapult instead but, that seems more like a Jagermech's cousin than a Dragon's one. Besides, it's pretty mobile, even without the XL engine. From the looks of it, almost like a beefy medium, which is something instantly attractive to me.

If anyone could advise a good mech to learn the traditional damage sponge assault in, that'd be grand. I've been a fan of Highlander since I got into Battletech, but it's hardly a good decision to make based on just that.

(Edit: I started this post about 4 or 5 hours ago and kinda returned to it after a bit -- sorry 'bout that).

I personally would recommend the Highlander as the assault and Orion as the heavy and not just because they were/are on sale. I recommend them through experience with nearly 160 currently owned mech variants.

For new players getting into heavies, I have always recommended Orions since shortly after they came out (when I finally got some). They are cheaply affordable and blend the best aspects of Heavy and Assault in one beautiful package. They are very standard-engine and XL engine friendly, though unless you plan on a missile or PPC boat; you have no need or use for an XL engine. The standard engines get you plenty of speed to tonnage without consuming too much of your available equipment/weapons/ammo weight. Many of them can, and for several years now, have mimicked Atlas builds with a little bit more speed and considerably more agility (These are NOT the same thing) in exchange for a little less armor. The lowered "perceived threat" profile and more reasonable speeds more than make up for the minor armor differences. Large arms can easily soak damage and the comparatively small body spreads damage MUCH better than an Atlas could ever dream of.

Plus did I mention it's cheap to set up?

My As7-D (Atlas) based Orion. (The K is in my opinion, the "worst" Orion as it is the hottest. Still does a dang good job).

Highlanders
These are among the original "overpowered" assaults (Victors being the other) that the Inner Sphere had before a mass set of 'nerfs', followed by removal of the nerfs but limited 'quirkening'. Even so these Highlanders have still come out ahead of these balancing measures (if you ignore "hover jets" which have recently been fixed too). I personally don't use jumpjets much in my Highlanders (they are 2 tons each), as I find a single jumpjet to be enough for what I need. (To get over 'bumps in the road').

I've used Highlanders as missile boats, as brawlers, as hunter-killers (DPS-oriented anti-light/medium/heavy), and as sharp shooters (jumpjets suggested for this). I favor hunter-killer roles and Commandmech missile boat roles (a direct-and-indirect fire support mech, fast enough to keep up but slow enough to allow me to micromanage team mates by giving orders via the Battlegrid).

The following videos are all pre-quirks, during the time when Highlanders were considered to be "nerfed into the ground" (the missile boat one is slightly after the first set of nerfs.)

Two samples of the Hunter Killer role. (You could call this a DPS brawler)
With Command.
Hunter-killer.

A sample of the Missile Boat role (It's a lot more interesting than you might think, as this is sort of a hunter's missile boat).

As you can imagine, even without obscenely overdone quirks, they still perform better now than back then. My Highlanders are some of my best mechs, and my Heavy Metal is my second favorite hero Mech (and my best mech). My overall favorite hero Mech is the Misery (which is my third best mech; it gets this spot because my shots are hit or miss, making me do fantastic or awful at times).

Edited by Koniving, 24 July 2015 - 01:45 PM.

[Koniving]

Tormund, on 24 July 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

I then purchased the Dragon 1-N and built it with twin AC/5s, twin MLs for backup, XL300, and small tweaks like C.A.S.E. and AMS. Endosteel and double heatsinks, too.

CASE + XL engine... great idea in Battletech if you have repair and rearm. In MWO... was a great idea, but then repair and rearm was removed "temporarily" for 2 and a half years now. You could lose the CASE to save some weight, it really won't help you.

That said: here's another build idea if you ever start looking for other but similar options. 1 AC/5, 2 MGs, 1 LPL. Sounds not so great, huh? Well check out the Sample. Pre-quirks in that vid mind you, it's even better now.

[Cato Phoenix]

A big part of piloting heavies and assaults (really anything) is learning how to protect your components from being blitzed off. Whereas in lights/mediums you might be protecting your XL side torso or your legs, on a heavy/assault you need to save your big chunky CT and your critical weapon points. You have a lot more firepower to deliver, and with your now slower stompiness, you have to take more time to do it in. It becomes critical to torso twist and have damage splash onto your arms, weaker torso, and legs if you can manage it.

If you are sniping, practice swinging your torso to coincide with a front-back motion, so you poke, swing, shoot, swing, and hopefully let the lasers/gauss shots fly past your nose or blitz onto your arm/leg.

If you are brawling and stomping down on enemy mechs - preferably, as mentioned, with a narrow arc, you are doing the same thing but timing the twists with enemy shooting / positioning to gain hull down status from rocks / buildings or enemy/friendly mechs.

Second, the positioning mentioned by Kon is key. and it takes a really close knowledge of where/what your fellow mechs are and what they're doing. You see that Quickdraw video above, where he survived a -really- aggressive rush into the enemy team because they were getting blasted from the Theta ridge. If he was alone or had mechs behind him rather than on the other side, he would have eaten a lot more fire.

[Gyrok]

Tormund, on 23 July 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

Great tips so far! Thanks to everyone who responded. As a hunchie, I found myself either trying to put some rounds into targets from medium range, from the second line, or sticking with heavier, meaner teammates to get some cheeky flanking shots while they draw fire.

As someone looking to get into heavies I have my eyes on Jagermech for that first role and Dragon for the second. Considering both can be outfitted with serious ballistic power, they both pack a good punch, it'd seem.

I know that Jagermech is highly vulnerable and best used for peeking, and I know Dragon has a huge CT and has no place in an all-out brawl. A lot of people advise Catapult instead but, that seems more like a Jagermech's cousin than a Dragon's one. Besides, it's pretty mobile, even without the XL engine. From the looks of it, almost like a beefy medium, which is something instantly attractive to me.

If anyone could advise a good mech to learn the traditional damage sponge assault in, that'd be grand. I've been a fan of Highlander since I got into Battletech, but it's hardly a good decision to make based on just that.

With the Jager, remember this:

YOU. ARE. SQUISHY.

To run anything worth bringing on a jager, you need an XL engine, likely an XL255 to be exact.

Think of the Jager as a trapdoor spider. You hide and wait for an opportunity, then poke your head out and nail an unsuspecting target from the side with UAC5s or Gauss rifles.

The Dragon is similar but different.

If you want something tanky...here are some IS options:

1.) CTF with STD engine. Something like a 1X with 5ML + AC20 + STD300, or a 3D with 4MLs + AC20 and JJs

2.) Atlas with STD325-350. Something in that range gets you to 57-60 kph after speed tweak. Try builds like these on Atlas:

Super brawler: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3b3a9fcb32b634d

Mid range brawler: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b96eb370170f76c

Hybrid: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d3014593d53f7d1 (warm build)

3.) Stalker with STD300. Stalker is very tanky...especially something like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eb55f8600a873b5

The above stalker build is the first asymmetric build, and is quite strong because your entire RT side is a shield. The goal is to fire at your enemy and twist to expose your shield side. We can strip the armor from the arm because it is so small, you would seldom lose it before you lost the RT anyway. If you lose the LT, you still have a LPL in the CT to continue fighting as a "zombie".

Edited by Gyrok, 24 July 2015 - 04:59 PM.