36 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

TheArisen, on 27 July 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure he meant timeline with "lore" He's right, ppl are all concerned with a timeline that hardly affects anything except preventing us from getting the good stuff.

Hey. I had to wait 25 years to get Hardened armor. You can wait 5.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

What about Hardened Armor?
http://www.sarna.net.../Hardened_Armor

[TheArisen]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 July 2015 - 02:33 AM, said:

Hey. I had to wait 25 years to get Hardened armor. You can wait 5.

Haha, you want to wait another 5?

But seriously, we need more defensive options in game. If we had actual options, there'd be no automatic endo, etc, because you'd have to choose.

[Lugh]

ProfessorD, on 27 July 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

This is an excellent idea. We can go one better, though, and accomplish a bigger balance goal: Make modular armor IS only. Forget the timeline or whatever other tabletop rules modular armor has and make it a new feature that better differentiates IS and Clan mechs.

Only if it comes with ALL the disadvantages its lists. Which amounts to ~-10-25KPH and a reduction in torso twist speed and turn times.

It will only lead to even more CLAN OP, because no amount of armor is enough to protect you when you are getting out maneuvered ask any Stalker / Direwolf pilot about that.

[Joseph Mallan]

TheArisen, on 28 July 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

Haha, you want to wait another 5?

But seriously, we need more defensive options in game. If we had actual options, there'd be no automatic endo, etc, because you'd have to choose.

I have no interest in Modular Armor. So sure, I'll wait another 5 years.

Also Having Endo frees up tonnage for hardened armor So I could have both.

JudgeDeathCZ, on 28 July 2015 - 03:11 AM, said:

What about Hardened Armor?
http://www.sarna.net.../Hardened_Armor

So long as The FedCom get it before anyone else.

[Mister Blastman]

Meh, they'll just give us a consumable called "armor shot."

[Joseph Mallan]

Mister Blastman, on 28 July 2015 - 06:11 AM, said:

Meh, they'll just give us a consumable called "armor shot."

Sing it with me...
You Know It's
Sad But True...

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 28 July 2015 - 06:19 AM.

[TheArisen]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 July 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

I have no interest in Modular Armor. So sure, I'll wait another 5 years.

Also Having Endo frees up tonnage for hardened armor So I could have both.


So long as The FedCom get it before anyone else.

Following the timeline exactly can take a backseat to game balance. If you think Lore should come first you're just limiting what we can get all because of some unimportant fluff.

[Vellron2005]

Additional armor as equipment?

NO.

Here's why:

1) Not timeline and lore based
2) Would break game balance (imagine a light with the armor of a medium - just.. no)
3) Making it IS only - childish, (its like saying "I got iceeeeecream, and you dont haaaaave one", or the more commonly used "neener neener")
4) Would greatly contribute to power creep
5) Would take PGI's focus off of the important things, like immersion and more maps, to provide people who suck at piloting lights a few more minutes/match to suck at piloting lights.
6) Becouse.. NO.

Edited by Vellron2005, 29 July 2015 - 12:38 AM.

[GreyNovember]

Vellron2005, on 29 July 2015 - 12:37 AM, said:

Additional armor as equipment?

NO.

Here's why:

1) Not timeline and lore based
2) Would break game balance (imagine a light with the armor of a medium - just.. no)
3) Making it IS only - childish, (its like saying "I got iceeeeecream, and you dont haaaaave one", or the more commonly used "neener neener")
4) Would greatly contribute to power creep
5) Would take PGI's focus off of the important things, like immersion and more maps, to provide people who suck at piloting lights a few more minutes/match to suck at piloting lights.
6) Becouse.. NO.

If you have to sacrifice for the armor I don't see the problem.

Fine, we have a light with medium mech armor.

It probably also moves at 2 digit speeds and/or has less firepower as a result.

[Khobai]

Quote

The internal structure of the mech can only support X amount of weight. Thats why you can't just slap on more armor in a location.

You can. Its called hardened armor.

They really should add hardened armor to the game. It would solve a lot of problems for mechs like the Atlas which cant take hits very well.

They should add Light Fusion Engines too.



The imbalance between Clan and IS shouldve been solved with giving IS new equipment rather than giving them insane quirks.

Edited by Khobai, 29 July 2015 - 01:18 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

If there was anything like this to be considered (and I'm not sure I like it anyway), I'd consider treating it as a a straight up trade (internal points for armor points).

If trading internals for armor could be possible, it would be possible to beef up armor at the cost of internal structure points. This way we aren't creating more HP, but just shifting.

Since armor protects from weapon and equip crits, shifting internal HP to armor HP would delay the chance of a weapon being crit under fire by extending armor coverage.

The downside is once armor is gone, that location will be destroyed quicker (rate depending on how many internal points were shifted).

An advantage to being able to do this might be for a mech carrying an A/C20 or Gauss. Those weapons are easy to destroy due to their crit slot count. Shifting internals to armor would help prolong the armor protection of the housing they are in extending their life span under fire. Just keep in mind, once armor is gone, that location has less internal HP.

Something a long those lines might be more acceptable to me.

[GreyNovember]

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 July 2015 - 01:38 AM, said:

If there was anything like this to be considered (and I'm not sure I like it anyway), I'd consider treating it as a a straight up trade (internal points for armor points).

If trading internals for armor could be possible, it would be possible to beef up armor at the cost of internal structure points. This way we aren't creating more HP, but just shifting.

Since armor protects from weapon and equip crits, shifting internal HP to armor HP would delay the chance of a weapon being crit under fire by extending armor coverage.

The downside is once armor is gone, that location will be destroyed quicker (rate depending on how many internal points were shifted).

An advantage to being able to do this might be for a mech carrying an A/C20 or Gauss. Those weapons are easy to destroy due to their crit slot count. Shifting internals to armor would help prolong the armor protection of the housing they are in extending their life span under fire. Just keep in mind, once armor is gone, that location has less internal HP.

Something a long those lines might be more acceptable to me.

So wait. Why shouldn't I just shift all of my points into armor instead of internal?

[MeiSooHaityu]

GreyNovember, on 29 July 2015 - 01:42 AM, said:

So wait. Why shouldn't I just shift all of my points into armor instead of internal?

Probably because..hmm...

A: Game wouldn't let you. Let's face it, stuff is going to be inside mechs and that stuff helps hold things together. A limit would maybe be arbitrary, but hey...balance and stuff.

B: Or, maybe what let's you shift internals to armor actually takes up crit space (like other equipment). It limits what you can shift in a certain location (since an A/C 20 only has 2 open crits in a torso, it would limit how much could be shifted if "X"amount of points could only be transferred per 1 crit slot. Also means decisions like do I carry heat sinks or additional armor in that one location.

On a practical level I suppose the downside of having less internal points isnt much of a downside (I'm still on my first cup of coffee for the morning so the brain is still winding up), but maybe less internal points also increases crit chances on equipped weapons. I think this might negate the desire to shift armor though (especially if it takes crit slots too).

I think crit slot penalty would probably be enough. Hey, just brainstorming here.

[Rushmoar]

Antares102, on 27 July 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

Probably not really lore and stuff but what about the option
to fit additonal armor to your mech as equipment.

For instance for every 1 ton and 1 slot you get half the hit points you normally get with "basic" armor (i.e. 16 for STD). This armor can then be distributed across your mech with certain limits.
So you wont be able to apply all 16 points to the CT.

It's already in game. Just look at the quirks on your mechs next time you are in the mech lab.

[Dino Might]

Mors Draco, on 27 July 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

Yes, lets dump a metric crapton of overpowered and experimental weapons from across all time periods of the lore into the game because PGI has such a stellar reputation for balancing the current weapons...

So....Clan Invasion?

[Prof RJ Gumby]

I think introducing "hardened armor" as equipment is a great idea, and the game could benefit a lot from suc thing, it it was smartly implemented.


First of all, the bonus armor/penalties can't be extensive, for many reasons, e.g. we would risk throwing balance out of the window. This can't be a straight must-take upgrade either (like endo or dhs). Lastly, it must be much less profitable than just maxing your armor.

I think a 1-ton, 1-slot piece of equipment that, when put in a limb of a mech, raise armor of that limb by 5 would be alright. You could have 2 of them max in one "limb". No need for speed/mobility penalties with a small, weight-heavy bonus like that.
That is 5 points of armor for one less heat sink or laser. Bad trade by default, but can be an option in few cases, like reinforcing the weapon arm in mechs like the panther, or the hunch in a hunchback, by a bit.

This would also make those poor low-hardpoint mechs/chassis be a bit more viable, as without place for many weapons, there is sometimes pretty nothing good to put in them anyway. Please note how half of the 'meta' aspect of meta mechs is that they are able to put on a sh*tload of weapons. Nobody will change those weapons for such a small amout on armor for them, so meta will hardly be changed. It's those struggling, low-end chassis that will get an option to possibly become a bit better.

Additional option, not a straight benefit.