33 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

Greetings fellow Mechwarriors!

I'm currently researching LRMs because I'm starting to own several mechs (Stormcrows and Warhawks) that can validly use LRMs on their builds. On the IS side, I also own several valiant Highlanders, which I sometimes put some LRMs on when I want to replicate the stock build. Anyway, here's my LRMs stats:



Based on what I can gather from the tiny amount of data:
1. The accuracy is the inverse of the LRM size for Clan. This makes sense because Clanners fire their LRMs in streams.
2. Artemis seems to improve hit rates slightly (a wild guess is less than 4%). I can also see that it tightens the grouping when testing in the training grounds with LOS (no idea in actual combat with or without LOS).

Your LRM stats, comments, or ideas are greatly appreciated!




Long live the LRM boats!

[El Bandito]

Hit the Deck, on 08 March 2015 - 01:52 AM, said:

Based on what I can gather from the tiny amount of data:
1. The accuracy is the inverse of the LRM size for Clan. This makes sense because Clanners fire their LRMs in streams.
2. Artemis seems to improve hit rates slightly (a wild guess is less than 4%). I can also see that it tightens the grouping when testing in the training grounds with LOS (no idea in actual combat with or without LOS).

Your LRM stats, comments, or ideas are greatly appreciated!

This should upset your theory.




Being able to fire within minimum range is a powerful thing.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 March 2015 - 03:26 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

El Bandito, on 08 March 2015 - 03:07 AM, said:

This should upset your theory.

It's a based fact that LRM's hit rate is around 30%! Please tell us your secret, Mechwarrior! Is it because of copius use of TAG and/or NARC?

[El Bandito]

Hit the Deck, on 08 March 2015 - 03:18 AM, said:

It's a based fact that LRM's hit rate is around 30%! Please tell us your secret, Mechwarrior! Is it because of copius use of TAG and/or NARC?

Experience, I suppose. After 3 years of lurming, I have a good idea under which conditions shots will connect, when it will not. I use TAG but not NARC (unless I am piloting the A1). Also, I am not shy of using CLRMs up close.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 March 2015 - 04:07 AM.

[p4r4g0n]

Hitting 40+% accuracy with LRMs requires playing as a LRM skirmisher which means staying with the group and firing within 400-600m (or less) of the targets.

[Hit the Deck]

Well, thanks for the input! Actually my WHK-B is already configured to move with the team and that means firing from the medium-ish range. I'll just try to decrease the LRMs size to increase the accuracy based on my "data".

[LordNothing]

i figure some players prefer to use them in line of sight rather than behind cover which could in theory get your rates above 50%. when you fire from behind cover you are essentially gambling your first salvo of missiles that you will hit something. i usually get about 25-30% when doing this.an lrm 20 that ends up hitting terrain is going to really hurt your accuracy. so its better to know where your missiles are going. if you have multiple smaller launchers you can easily fire a test shot before loosing the swarm.

when i got my madcats, i often used them as direct fire mechs first and as lerm boats second, so the result was higher hit rates than usual. i also find your accuracy is often much better if you use your missiles as a secondary or tertiary weapon, since you usually only have a couple tons of ammo in that case and need to conserve it. on clan mechs i kind of use lerms as more of a medium range weapon, and especially use them at short range as impromptu srms. they almost always hit in those situations.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 March 2015 - 06:45 AM.

[Sorbic]

I just checked my stats and realized I've never ran a clan lrm'er with Artemis... That said my CvsIS lrms stats are similar. I'd say the biggest thing for improving accuracy is spotting for yourself. I almost always use tag and have rarely used narc. Keep in mind that I will often fire a wasted single pod to convince an enemy they want to duck behind cover/disengage or to rattle an unreachable enemy who is beating a team mate. The numbers could easily be higher (I've gotten sloppy lately) but accuracy is just one aspect of the game.

LRM 5 36.73%
LRM 10 40.29%
LRM 15 34.16%
20 without Artms? Nope.

LRM 5 + ARTEMIS 47.57%
LRM 10 + ARTEMIS 41.09%
LRM 15 + ARTEMIS 39.61%
LRM 20 + ARTEMIS 40.72%

C-LRM 5 51.62%
C-LRM 10 39.96%
C-LRM 15 41.37%
C-LRM 20 39.99%

[Lightfoot]

LRMs have been bugged since the first patch of 2015. Might be a Hit Registration (HR) bug, no changes were made to LRMs directly as far as I know. However, as soon as the HR bug hit all the, "LRM apocalypse=OP, ruining game, why does PGi do nothing?", posts disappeared from the forums. So you know LRMs are totally worthless now.

PGI usually tells us when they tune some weapon so what you should expect is LRM5's are most accurate, then LRM10, LRM15, and LRM20 being lowest accuracy.

LRMs have changed over the past year or two so you would need data from a single time space between bugs and changes if you are comparing. You also get no Artemis buff without LoS so this is variable by game events. However...

"The Artemis IV Fire Control System is a guidance system that utilizes an infrared laser designator and tight-beam microwave transmitter which improves the accuracy of LRMs, SRMs, and MMLs by roughly thirty-five percent. The Artemis IV FCS must be mounted in the same location as the launcher it controls, taking up space and weight on a Battlemech like other components. In order to actually benefit from Artemis IV, the missiles fired must be Artemis compatible, which are more expensive than standard versions, and the firing unit must have line of sight to its target; indirectly fired LRM receives no increase in accuracy."

And in no way does Artemis, plus TAG, plus NARC, ever get to 35% improvement! Nor does Artemis lower the missile-arc like a beam tracking missile would have to do! (Beam means straight line to target)

All you can do is test LRMs after each patch (more or less) on Testing Grounds and hope that works in an actual match, but LRMs are always a little spotty, which is fine, they have a random element, .......

but they are soooo buggy right now. I saw a slow lone Warhawk with no AMS (target lock info) flee across the open end of River City while being hit by 5 LRM support mechs taking probably 2000-2500 LRM rounds and it took only minor armor damage, except the armor on the facing arm had turned red.

So you can't rely on any game data on LRMs right now. You are just gathering data on an HR Bug.

Edited by Lightfoot, 08 March 2015 - 07:24 AM.

[p4r4g0n]

Hit the Deck, on 08 March 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

Well, thanks for the input! Actually my WHK-B is already configured to move with the team and that means firing from the medium-ish range. I'll just try to decrease the LRMs size to increase the accuracy based on my "data".

You have the Target Decay module right? Right?

Just FYI, my stats with IS LRM's is consistent with the data you have on Clan LRMs due to smaller LRM spread. Not sure if that has changed, it has been a while since I played LRMs much.

Haven't played Clan LRMs much but due to the streaming of missiles smaller launchers may reduce the number of missiles getting through AMS cover.

[Hit the Deck]

Sorbic, on 08 March 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

.... but accuracy is just one aspect of the game.

LRM 5 36.73%
LRM 10 40.29%
LRM 15 34.16%
20 without Artms? Nope.

LRM 5 + ARTEMIS 47.57%
LRM 10 + ARTEMIS 41.09%
LRM 15 + ARTEMIS 39.61%
LRM 20 + ARTEMIS 40.72%

C-LRM 5 51.62%
C-LRM 10 39.96%
C-LRM 15 41.37%
C-LRM 20 39.99%

"Accuracy is just one aspect of the game....". 'Tis is very true. LRMs are also an effective psychological weapon as many have witnessed and experienced.

BTW that's a pretty good stat! I have to work on my LRMing.

Lightfoot, on 08 March 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

You also get no Artemis buff without LoS so this is variable by game events. However...

"The Artemis IV Fire Control System is a guidance system that utilizes an infrared laser designator and tight-beam microwave transmitter which improves the accuracy of LRMs, SRMs, and MMLs by roughly thirty-five percent. The Artemis IV FCS must be mounted in the same location as the launcher it controls, taking up space and weight on a Battlemech like other components. In order to actually benefit from Artemis IV, the missiles fired must be Artemis compatible, which are more expensive than standard versions, and the firing unit must have line of sight to its target; indirectly fired LRM receives no increase in accuracy."

And in no way does Artemis, plus TAG, plus NARC, ever get to 35% improvement! Nor does Artemis lower the missile-arc like a beam tracking missile would have to do! (Beam means straight line to target)

Yeah, this has to be taken into consideration when equipping a mech. Are you going to be sitting in the back on the other side of the hill or move with the team?

BTW thanks for your info about the HR bug. This bug seems to have been spreading lately and affecting people's lives games.

[Hit the Deck]

p4r4g0n, on 08 March 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

You have the Target Decay module right? Right?

Umm... it's currently on the to do list. But surprisingly, the C-Bills keep disappearing

[Jman5]

I only have LRM 10 artemis stats so I can't compare.

This is with TAG and target decay.

[Beld]

Damn LRMs must have been godly before this bug that is supposed to be affecting them, I'm a fairly recent convert to lrm boating, my warhawks regularly do 800 dmg a game with the not too rare 1200-1300 dmg game.
C-LRM 15 + ARTEMIS
Fired 270,134
Hit 115,353
42.70%
111,585 dmg

Edited by Beld, 08 March 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

It's so far clear that everyone here can achieve >40% accuracy with their LRMs so I must work intelligently to improve mine

On a related note, because Artemis improves grouping with LOS, you can CT core enemy mechs faster with it. From my test with LRM45 on the River City Training Ground on an Awesome:
- w/o Artemis: 7 shots to kill
- with Artemis: 5 shots to kill

[Sorbic]

Beld, I'm not familiar with this bug bug if it's like the other HSR issues then it probably doesn't hit everyone quite the same. I also think some folks might be contributing the .1 damage reduction from November to it. Right now LRMs are kind of annoying to use due to the flood of ECM. Some games there's not much but others I'll be facing 4 ECM mechs. And with the way multiple ECM slows Tag acquisition... Tag needs buffed.

[Beld]

Has anyone done the numbers on clan LRM damage reduction at close range?

Quite often I use my LRMs at close range, not point blank but at 100m I consider them damaging enough to still fire, it would be great to know exactly how much damage is lost at various ranges.

[Mcchuggernaut]

I'm not too concerned with accuracy numbers, myself. Part of being a good missile boat pilot (imho) is shooting at every lock you can get and carrying enough missiles to do so all match without running dry. Why? It keep's the enemy team's heads down. The second that most people hear "Warning incoming missile!", they are disengaging and running for cover. If I see a group of enemies advancing on my team, I will quickly switch locks from enemy to enemy, firing one salvo at each in sequence. This often makes them all back up into cover or outright run, and I have turned the tide of many a match this way. Because I always try to focus on suppressing the enemy and disrupting whatever they are trying to do, my accuracy is only 28.8%, but I have a K/D of 1.96% in my main boat because I tend to help my team win matches, and then end up reaping the rewards of my labors in the form of easy kills once my team starts to roll the other team under due to our map dominance.

[Hit the Deck]

Mcchuggernaut, on 08 March 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

I'm not too concerned with accuracy numbers, myself. Part of being a good missile boat pilot (imho) is shooting at every lock you can get and carrying enough missiles to do so all match without running dry. Why? It keep's the enemy team's heads down. The second that most people hear "Warning incoming missile!", they are disengaging and running for cover. If I see a group of enemies advancing on my team, I will quickly switch locks from enemy to enemy, firing one salvo at each in sequence. This often makes them all back up into cover or outright run, and I have turned the tide of many a match this way. Because I always try to focus on suppressing the enemy and disrupting whatever they are trying to do, my accuracy is only 28.8%, but I have a K/D of 1.96% in my main boat because I tend to help my team win matches, and then end up reaping the rewards of my labors in the form of easy kills once my team starts to roll the other team under due to our map dominance.

True, that's what I imagine someone's gonna do when he/she takes a suppressive fire role. I myself haven't done that because I can't commit myself 100% to LRM boating yet.

[wanderer]

I'm in the same "keep their heads down" order, which puts my accuracy in the mid-30's with my launchers. I'll also sit there bombarding a light just to keep it off other 'Mechs and moving, which means fewer missiles in a spread hit, but we don't get heavies or assaults shredded instantly without anyone to screen them on the way to the usual deathball.

And forget K/D. Assists, assists, assists most games but lots of them.