57 replies to this topic

[HeavyGun]

So why does PGI have LRM's in the game anymore?

They have so much ECM in the game now along with the radar deprivation it is almost impossible to get a lock. Oh you say use tag...ahh tag only has a range of 750m. To use tag effectively you have to stand out in open and hold tag the whole time which means you just gave away your positions or your just dead now. Also the 750m max range of tag to the minimum 180m range of IS missiles is only 570m for a long range weapon.

I see in chat all the time how peeps either complain about missiles or they bash missile users and call them newbs. Sorry guys missiles are not easy. And PGI has effectively taken one whole weapon system out of the game because they listen to peeps complain and cry here on this forum about missiles instead on how to effectively use cover. And reducing the range of ECM will not really help either. ECM was never supposed to give a mech a null signature which it does now, it was just supposed to nullify the effects of other electronics, such as missile beacons, active probes, and fire control systems.

Take a Catapult A1 for instance any ECM mech can walk right up to it if it has LRM's only and kill it and their is nothing the catapult pilot can do about it. Yeah the catapult pilot should have some SRM on their but then you usually cannot get much ammo on it.

I don't post here much nor do I read these forums much so go ahead and smear me now, but I probably will not see it.

[NephyrisX]

HeavyGun, on 28 July 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

So why does PGI have LRM's in the game anymore?

They have so much ECM in the game now along with the radar deprivation it is almost impossible to get a lock. Oh you say use tag...ahh tag only has a range of 750m. To use tag effectively you have to stand out in open and hold tag the whole time which means you just gave away your positions or your just dead now. Also the 750m max range of tag to the minimum 180m range of IS missiles is only 570m for a long range weapon.

I see in chat all the time how peeps either complain about missiles or they bash missile users and call them newbs. Sorry guys missiles are not easy. And PGI has effectively taken one whole weapon system out of the game because they listen to peeps complain and cry here on this forum about missiles instead on how to effectively use cover. And reducing the range of ECM will not really help either. ECM was never supposed to give a mech a null signature which it does now, it was just supposed to nullify the effects of other electronics, such as missile beacons, active probes, and fire control systems.

Take a Catapult A1 for instance any ECM mech can walk right up to it if it has LRM's only and kill it and their is nothing the catapult pilot can do about it. Yeah the catapult pilot should have some SRM on their but then you usually cannot get much ammo on it.

I don't post here much nor do I read these forums much so go ahead and smear me now, but I probably will not see it.

This is so much contrast to Yellownet's "WAH, LRMS KILLED ME" thread.

[Jman5]

We got hit with a perfect storm of ECM mechs. The Cataphract OXP for Cbills, Arctic Cheetah, and Shadow Cat all got dumped into the game at once. However, things will taper off shortly after people finish grinding their mechs and move back to whatever they like playing. Most people I've heard talking about the Shadow Cat are not very happy with it, and the Cataphract OXP doesn't seem to excite many people. So that just leaves the Arctic Cheetah as a permanent fixture on the scene. On top of that, PGI is going to be nerfing the ECM bubble dramatically from 180 meters to 90 meters.

Whatever your feelings are on LRMs, they will probably perform better in a couple weeks.

Edited by Jman5, 28 July 2015 - 07:48 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

Use NARC and try to mount it high like this:



NARC the Hellbringer if you see one. When there are a lot of ECM Lights and they hide behind other Mechs, you are out of luck and have to wait until someone (or you) is able to pop out a UAV or late of the match. It's usually a good idea to NARC the enemy Mech farthest from the center of their formation (at the edge of the blob).

Edited by Hit the Deck, 28 July 2015 - 07:51 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Ignoring Arti, one could build an okay A1.

---

Nevertheless, I agree that something should be done to help LRMs and it's various hard counters.

In my eyes the main problem is with how Locks work in the first place.

So an idea that I'd like to explore is have them be more LOS weapons where when fired, missiles will track the crosshair /reticle and have gear like Arti, TAG and NARC improve missiles' response to moving the crosshair / reticle around. Then have a separate system for indirect fire that maybe could keep the current hardcounters and require a Spotter to carry TAG or fire off a NARC.

Alternatively, exploring LRMs to be Fire and Forget with Locks possible with LOS, TAG and NARC only could be another avenue to explore, where existing gear continues to modify missile spread, but have changes to Locks due to their Fire and Forget nature.

So at any rate, there will be need to be other changes such as introducing more ripple fire patterns, longer cooldowns, adjustments in velocity and spread, and so on; with any significant changes to how LRMs Lock onto a Target.


I simply hope that the upcoming rebalancing can at least try to address LRMs' Feast or Famine nature in a positive manner.

[Monkey Lover]

Hit the Deck, on 28 July 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

Use NARC and try to mount it high like this:



NARC the Hellbringer if you see one. When there are a lot of ECM Lights and they hide behind other Mechs, you are out of luck and have to wait until someone (or you) is able to pop out a UAV or late of the match. It's usually a good idea to NARC the enemy Mech farthest from the center of their formation (at the edge of the blob).

Doesnt work, Last sunday i was playing with my unit i had my raven with narc+bap+counter ecm. I couldnt get any locks for them until we killed half of them.



Of course lrms were junk even before all the ecms showed up.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 28 July 2015 - 08:58 PM.

[El Bandito]

Hit the Deck, on 28 July 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

Use NARC and try to mount it high like this:

NARC the Hellbringer if you see one. When there are a lot of ECM Lights and they hide behind other Mechs, you are out of luck and have to wait until someone (or you) is able to pop out a UAV or late of the match. It's usually a good idea to NARC the enemy Mech farthest from the center of their formation (at the edge of the blob).

With current amount of mechs, unless you manage to NARC all the ECM carriers, the bubbles simply overlap each other and cancel the planted NARC beacon. So it won't work.

Need to wait until the amount of ECM mechs die down. Otherwise, bringing LRM boat in Puglandia right now is mostly detrimental to the team.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 July 2015 - 09:03 PM.

[Leone]

Wow, you're really complaining about having to see the enemy to tag it? Yes, LRMs and Streaks are the only two weapon systems that can hit something the mech cannot see, but....

You know what, never mind, I cannot stay here. Carry on.

~Leone.

[Cyborne Elemental]

yes as a solo LRM boat, spend 6 seconds staring at the enemy trying to cut through his ECM, so you can wait 6 more seconds as your LRM's travel to its target, meanwhile he dumps Gauss/PPC or 60+ dmg laser vomit into you instantly when he see's your TAG then retreats to cover as your LRM's miss..

Good play.

[JediPanther]

Only lrm I use is a lrm 5 for the psychogical effect. Incoming missle maha now that you dove for cover I shoot something else.

[Chrome Magnus]

because it's the one weapon slow enough that I can consistently see it instead of the game seemingly choosing to not render it leaving me wondering where the fire is coming from?

[Radbane]

HeavyGun, on 28 July 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

So why does PGI have LRM's in the game anymore?

They have so much ECM in the game now along with the radar deprivation it is almost impossible to get a lock. Oh you say use tag...ahh tag only has a range of 750m. To use tag effectively you have to stand out in open and hold tag the whole time which means you just gave away your positions or your just dead now. Also the 750m max range of tag to the minimum 180m range of IS missiles is only 570m for a long range weapon.

Beat my personal record yesterday in a LRM boat. 155 score / 1146 dmg. Ok, it was not a boat, more of a battleship. 4xLRM15, TAG, Advanced Target Decay module and 1800 missiles, all protected by the armor of a 100 ton Assault mech, and backed up with 3 Medium Pulselasers.

My favourite LRM machine is a Catapult with 2xLRM15 with Artemis, 1800 missiles and 4 small pulselasers. It uses Advanced Target Decay and LRM15 cooldown modules. Easily 500-600 dmg which I find to be ok.

Now, people say there's no skill using LRM's. That's just an uneducated statement. Sure, you don't need as much eye-to-hand coordination, but you need tactical awereness and knowledge of all the in-game mechanics. The limited range of TAG, minimum range of LRM's (meaning those 570m where LRM's work), lock on times, overflow of ECM, cover and the fact that we usually have few backupweapons makes position and chosing targets very important, and that's a skill.

My tip to you is to not rely to much on others for targets. Don't just think you can stay behind cover and fire blindly. That's what the skill-less Lurmers do. The missiles themselves gives away your position anyway, so you might aswell get out there togehter with the rest of your team and get dirty. Just make sure you're not the pointman and in the way of fire to much. However, your mech comes with armor too. Migrating some of the damage from your teammates onto yourself is a good thing for the whole team.

Even if the weapon is called Long-range they work better at medium range. You'll hit your targets faster, and they have less time to find cover. Also, advancing with your team gives you some protection against those lights that search and destroy lone LRM-boats who can't defend themselves in close range. Look over your builds and make sure to always bring a few lasers. Even if you're a boat, those might scare of lights and help you perform better, not to mention still make you a viable oponent even when you run out of missiles.

I'd say LRM's still work. Do they work the way I like? Nah, the mechanics aren't really what I'd like 'em to be, but they do work.


-Edit: Updated my Catapult loadout, and corrected typos

Edited by Radbane, 31 July 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[Ace Selin]

Because LRMS cannot dumb fire or LRM users are too dumb to fire without locks, which is it?

Also LRMers have UAV, TAG, NARC & having team-mates press the R button available to help negate ECM for those who can only fire with locks.

[Thorqemada]

Even an Atlas can sidestep dumbfired LRMs...

[Cyborne Elemental]

If you're going to waste a Direwolf as a LRM boat, At least do it right ^^

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f27e40e15fd74ee

[Yellonet]

ECM is common they say, and yet I've played many games lately where my team has only 1 or 2 ECM mechs.

[Ace Selin]

Thorqemada, on 29 July 2015 - 12:17 AM, said:

Even an Atlas can sidestep dumbfired LRMs...

sure when you fire from 900m, but when you fire from 200-250m its much more effective, or do you want your LRM boat to not have to face the enemy ?
LOL

Edited by Ace Selin, 29 July 2015 - 01:51 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Monkey Lover, on 28 July 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

Doesnt work, Last sunday i was playing with my unit i had my raven with narc+bap+counter ecm. I couldnt get any locks for them until we killed half of them.



Of course lrms were junk even before all the ecms showed up.

Before ECM I was on my way to a 3.0 KDr with an Archer/Atlas.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 29 July 2015 - 01:49 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Grisbane, on 29 July 2015 - 02:01 AM, said:

and with these changes http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7643de12b166cbc that build would have been less terrible than it is (and yes, all of this was in MWO before ECM, i checked.. feel free to do so yourself)

only reason i did that was of the known lurmaggeddon before ECM.. i shudder to think about it.. looking at and even improving that build.. was.. painful. (goes to vomit out soul)

I did fine without those new fangled toys. Including the Dubs. Like I said just under a 3.0 KDr. How much better did I need to be?

And I did it with between 4-15 FpS on a Walmart bought Laptop!!!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 29 July 2015 - 02:16 AM.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2015 - 02:11 AM, said:

And I did it with between 4-15 FpS on a Walmart bought Laptop!!!

4 - 15 FpS? You sure that was a Laptop and not just a calculator hidden in a Laptop Shell?