23 replies to this topic

[Gentleman Reaper]

As we all know JJs are completely worthless on heavy and assault mechs, as well as being a waste of tonnage on flat maps, as they only thrust you upwards. Having seen the gameplay footage of Battletech, the Shadow Hawk's JJs granted it incredible mobility, the best maneuver being when it jumped BEHIND a hunchback so that he can open up on it's back.

Having this sort of mobility in MWO would make JJs a viable piece of equipment, as they would allow side-strafing and overall make yourself significantly harder to hit. This would make Omnimechs with fixed JJs like the Sadcat and Viper more viable as well, and reduce the need for uber-quirks to make them balanced.

What are your thoughts?

Edited by Gentleman Reaper, 10 August 2016 - 08:05 AM.

[ScarecrowES]

I will refer you to MW2 for the best possible implementation of JJs.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

JJs do need a buff, 3d movement would be nice, but for heavier mechs giving them decent jump heights would help too.

Currently mechs like the Shadow Cat and Viper can jump behind an enemy mech, its not as easy in this game as battletech because enemies move in real time and react rather than letting you shoot their backsides, but the maneuver itself is simple.

[El Bandito]

ScarecrowES, on 10 August 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

I will refer you to MW2 for the best possible implementation of JJs.

Certainly most fun, but best? Nah. I remember skating along the ground faster than I can run, using those.

[DaZur]

No.

These are "jump jets" not thrust vectoring... And these are not Gundoms.

[Gentleman Reaper]

El Bandito, on 10 August 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Certainly most fun, but best? Nah. I remember skating along the ground faster than I can run, using those.

Well, I think that JJs should allow you greater speed if you already have forward momentum. And on extremely slow designs like the Urban mech JJs should be your main method of movement.

DaZur, on 10 August 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

No.

These are "jump jets" not thrust vectoring... And these are not Gundoms.

Previous games and TT both allow movement that's not in a straight line, I'm not saying that JJs should let you move sideways at 100kph or something, but the added mobility is essential if we wants JJs to finally be useful.

[El Bandito]

Gentleman Reaper, on 10 August 2016 - 08:40 AM, said:

Well, I think that JJs should allow you greater speed if you already have forward momentum. And on extremely slow designs like the Urban mech JJs should be your main method of movement.

Yeah, but skating horizontally along the ground like MW2? That's just silly.

[Lostdragon]

Yes, MW:LL had a great implementation of JJ and should be shamelessly copied.

Edited by Lostdragon, 10 August 2016 - 08:42 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

DaZur, on 10 August 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

No.

These are "jump jets" not thrust vectoring... And these are not Gundoms.

Some mechs are specifically known for their thrust vectoring abilities. Though no one is asking for Gundam level movement, just normal battletech levels rather than the sad excuse for jump jets we have now.

[Mystere]

DaZur, on 10 August 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

No.

These are "jump jets" not thrust vectoring... And these are not Gundoms.

Nah! We do not have "jump" jets. We have "hover" jets. Get your lore equipment right.

****************

Vipers are an exception. Those things can go places where no one will ever find -- or get to -- you. Skirmish lovers, you've been warned. <maniacal >

Edited by Mystere, 10 August 2016 - 09:07 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

ScarecrowES, on 10 August 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

I will refer you to MW2 for the best possible implementation of JJs.

Maybe not in terms of how they worked precisely, but in terms of having 6 buttons for jump jets instead of 1? Definitely.

Mechwarrior 2 actually required some serious multitasking compared to MWO, in order to make the most of the controls. You had multiple buttons for jump jets and multiple buttons for targeting.

In MWO, you can pretty much get away with WASD + Mouse 1/2 + Space + R on a lot of builds. Some builds don't even need two weapon groups, but that goes for both games, I suppose.

[Signal27]

Gentleman Reaper, on 10 August 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

As we all know JJs are completely worthless on heavy and assault mechs, as well as being a waste of tonnage on flat maps, as they only thrust you upwards. Having seen the gameplay footage of Battletech, the Shadow Hawk's JJs granted it incredible mobility, the best maneuver being when it jumped BEHIND a hunchback so that he can open up on it's back.

Having this sort of mobility in MWO would make JJs a viable piece of equipment, as they would allow side-strafing and overall make yourself significantly harder to hit. This would make Omnimechs with fixed JJs like the Sadcat and Viper more viable as well, and reduce the need for uber-quirks to make them balanced.

What are your thoughts?

If we're using the way jump jets seemingly worked in the recent alpha demo of the turn-based BattleTech game coming out, then remember that the mechs didn't get to shoot until after they landed wherever they jumped.

That's the only implementation of jump jets in MWO I could ever really agree with: Go ahead and jump very high and very far, but your weapons will deactivate in mid-air. That way they're only meant for mobility and not pop-tarting.

Edited by Signal27, 10 August 2016 - 09:34 AM.

[Bud Crue]

I think it was MW2 and even 3 where you could assign jump jets to the hat switch of your joystick (ah how I miss playing with my spiffy Sidewinder 3D Pro). It was great if you had someone behind you. Or if you needed to jump on to a building next to you. I would love that feature in this game. I think without that sort of hat switch convenience/functionality, such multi-direction jets would still not be used.

In other words unless they make it so joysticks work better with MWO, I don't think vectoring jjs would be useful, at least to me.

[LordNothing]

living legends had an interesting system your mech would always jump up, but you could pitch and roll in flight to alter your trajectory. mw2 and 3 directional jets would be good too, i would mostly use them to cover terrain faster.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 August 2016 - 10:28 AM.

[Gentleman Reaper]

LordNothing, on 10 August 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

living legends had an interesting system your mech would always jump up, but you could pitch and roll in flight to alter your trajectory. mw2 and 3 directional jets would be good too, i would mostly use them to cover terrain faster.

My idea is that it pitches you up and then you simply use wasd to pitch, that way it's easy to pick up for new players.

[Snowbluff]

I think it's dumb that jumpjets give half as much performance for twice the weight at the highest weight classes. That's terrible.

[jss78]

I'd prefer a system where jump ability is roughly proportional to # of JJ's installed, as in TT. So heavier mechs can jump the same though with heavier JJ's. Tge current hoverjets suck, plain and simple

If shooting from midair is a problem, surely this can be countered by some kind of a reticle shake mechanic.

Aren't Spiders capable of midair thrust vectoring in lore?

Edited by jss78, 10 August 2016 - 11:09 AM.

[dervishx5]

ScarecrowES, on 10 August 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

I will refer you to MW2 for the best possible implementation of JJs.

Let's look at the Tabletop rules here:

Basically when you jump, you have to go in a straight line. -> -> ->

In MW2 you could fly back and forth. -> <- ->

However the tabletop versions do allow for moderate changes as you fly, allowing for more maneuverability than the current system in MWO. Jumping backwards, sideways, frontways, is supposed to be from a stationary position and allows you to land anywhere your mech's jump power allows you to, as long as it's in the straightest line possible.

[DaZur]

Gentleman Reaper, on 10 August 2016 - 08:40 AM, said:

Previous games and TT both allow movement that's not in a straight line, I'm not saying that JJs should let you move sideways at 100kph or something, but the added mobility is essential if we wants JJs to finally be useful.

I agree to a point that JJs could benefit from some maneuverability... This is not what the majority of players who ask for this mechanic. Many want Gundams flittering about like fairies...

Way too many folks reference the MW series which quite frankly was abhorrent.

[Mystere]

Signal27, on 10 August 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

If we're using the way jump jets seemingly worked in the recent alpha demo of the turn-based BattleTech game coming out, then remember that the mechs didn't get to shoot until after they landed wherever they jumped.

That's the only implementation of jump jets in MWO I could ever really agree with: Go ahead and jump very high and very far, but your weapons will deactivate in mid-air. That way they're only meant for mobility and not pop-tarting.

That's the inherent limitation imposed by a turn-based system. Otherwise in MWO, Mechs would not be able to fire while on the move too.

Also, I think people should end their fear of poptarts.

Edited by Mystere, 10 August 2016 - 01:20 PM.