58 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

Gas Guzzler, on 30 July 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Where did I err in the maths? I did do it a bit quickly, but the point is, there is a reason IS mechs get buffed a lot more than Clan mechs do.

your good Gas i was making a Joke,
you know based on how some Forum warriors respond with out facts,
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 30 July 2015 - 03:30 PM.

[Iqfish]

Sure they do less than the 50% "This mech sucked before" quirks.

My Thunderbolt outranges everything with the IS ER LLs, the modules and the quirks though.

So I do not agree at all with your headline

[OznerpaG]

this is exactly why i completely ignore quirks - i have my own specific style that i play, i mount the weapons i use that compliment my style, and i pilot mechs that allow me to implement my style to it's maximum effect

if that mech has quirks that enhance the weapons i decided to mount on my mech, then fine - nothing but pure coincidence

and as it so happens, as per the OP 90% of the quirks are worth ignoring anyways

hey PGI, instead of wasting time adding 100 quirks on each mech that give a bonus of 0.5% each, why don't you give each mech *that needs it* 1 or 2 unique quirks that each give a 40%-ish bonus

and no more weapon quirks - all weapons on every mech should have the same range, cooldown, and velocity as they do on every other mech. weapons are the deciding factor in this game, and therefore all mechs should have equal deciding factors

Edited by JagdFlanker, 30 July 2015 - 04:46 PM.

[El Bandito]

Gas Guzzler, on 30 July 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

With modules and those range quirks, your medium lasers would have an optimum range of 378 m and your LLs would have an optimum range of 563 m, vs 445 m for the cER MLs and 660 for the cLPL, so you still have a slight range disadvantage but you have a slight duration advantage. I would actually be happy about that matchup, it would prove interesting and I don't think that it would be OP.

BK (XL 350) vs Timber (XL375)

57 dmg at 378 m vs 54 dmg at 445 m

45 (~39 with -12.5% energy heat generation) heat with 19 DHS vs 44 heat with 24 DHS

0.9-1.0s duration vs 1.12-1.15s duration

no JJs vs 2 JJs

I don't know guys, I think if it gets that heat generation quirk as well it might be still not as good... therefore I move to vote that it gets those quirks that I proposed + some durability and agility.

I think I am going to start a thread about this.

Clan XL vs. IS XL. That's a BIG one.

I said it before, and I will say it again. Clan vs. IS tech need core balance changes instead of quirk reliance.

El Bandito, on 25 July 2015 - 04:24 AM, said:

Clan tech is better than IS overall. This is an indisputable truth. Otherwise, the best non-quirked IS mechs could perform as well as the best pre-nerf Clan mechs. But that is not the case. The arrival of Clans had jacked up the power creep so much so the previously competitive IS mechs were left in the dust during Invasion I. Currently PGI is holding the balance in place with the "+/- quirk" bandage, and they keep piling layer upon layer of it.

Instead PGI should redo the whole balancing from scratch and do some drastic change such as making Clan mechs able to add or remove Endo/Ferro/JJs to boost low performing Clan mechs while giving IS tech huge buffs such as Clan XL equivalent XL engine (LFE does not count, since it is still a "poor man's Clan XL"), and make sure there will be no clear cut advantage on weapon/equipment on either side, such as 2 slot Clan DHS performing the same as 3 slot IS DHS, or 12 tons CGauss performing the same as 15 tons IS Gauss.

Oh, and introduce progressive heat penalty so that people can't just pump 50-60 points of laser vomit and suffer no consequences.

I should write a thread about it. Too bad it will never reach PGI.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 July 2015 - 12:17 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Gas Guzzler, on 30 July 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

Seriously, all we want is an IS heavy mech that is capable of trading laser vomit with a Timber Wolf at Clan laser vomit range. Why is that so much to ask? All it would really need is 12.5%-15% energy range, 12.5%-15% ML range (read: 25-30% ML range) and some 12.5-15% energy heat reduction. Then it might have a chance, but would still be outranged by the Timber.

For this we would need a Heavy that can carry about 25% more lasers and be able to fire them. Thats not going to happen thanks to Ghost Heat.

Clan Weapons are lighter and more powerful. I would like them to stay that way for a while longer.

[Khobai]

Quote

Seriously, all we want is an IS heavy mech that is capable of trading laser vomit with a Timber Wolf at Clan laser vomit range.

Except timberwolf laser vomit isnt balanced in the first place. So why would you want to add more imbalance to the game?

Adding more massive quirks to counterbalance overpowered clan laser weapons is just inducing a cycle of power creep that will reduce TTK to ridiculously low levels.

The better solution is to nerf clan lasers and remove the need to have massive quirks in the first place.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 31 July 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

Except timberwolf laser vomit isnt balanced in the first place. So why would you want to add more imbalance to the game?

Adding more massive quirks to counterbalance overpowered clan laser weapons is just inducing a cycle of power creep that will reduce TTK to ridiculously low levels.

The better solution is to nerf clan lasers and remove the need to have massive quirks in the first place.

Ok but IF PGI nerfs the damage and not teh ER of them there will still be lots of crying cause "I get killed before I can reach my range!"

[Khobai]

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Ok but IF PGI nerfs the damage and not teh ER of them there will still be lots of crying cause "I get killed before I can reach my range!"

nerfing the range does nerf the damage silly.

less range = more damage dropoff = less damage

see how that works?

reducing the range on clan lasers is exactly what they need to do.


also they need to put CERML and CLPL in the same ghost heat group so laser vomit cant abuse the fact theyre in different ghost heat groups anymore. actually all clan lasers should probably be in the same ghost heat group to prevent abuse. You should have to fire large lasers seperate from your medium or small lasers or suffer massive ghost heat.

not that I condone ghost heat, but I see it as a stopgap measure, for the hopeful day when ghost heat is removed and replaced with a better system. but deep within my tormented soul I know that day is never coming lol.

Edited by Khobai, 31 July 2015 - 02:20 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 31 July 2015 - 02:14 AM, said:

nerfing the range does nerf the damage silly.

less range = more damage dropoff = less damage

see how that works?

reducing the range on clan lasers is exactly what they need to do.


also they need to put CERML and CLPL in the same ghost heat group so laser vomit cant abuse the fact theyre in different ghost heat groups anymore. actually all clan lasers should probably be in the same ghost heat group to prevent abuse. You should have to fire large lasers seperate from your medium or small lasers or suffer massive ghost heat.

not that I condone ghost heat, but I see it as a stopgap measure, for the hopeful day when ghost heat is removed and replaced with a better system. but deep within my tormented soul I know that day is never coming lol.

ER=Extended Range. Less range would kinda defeat the Extended part of the name.

[Khobai]

Quote

ER=Extended Range. Less range would kinda defeat the Extended part of the name.

not really

ER weapons would still have greater range than non-ER weapons

For example, the CERML could have a 360m range (instead of 405m) and it would still be more than the 270m range of the ISML.


Theres also no need for a CLPL to have a 600m range either. Its not an ER weapon. Its already vastly superior to the ISLPL in damage so why does it need almost twice the range too? Its poorly balanced.


The ranges on clan lasers are extremely unbalancing. Again the best solution is to reel in the ranges on the clan lasers and eliminate the need for IS super quirks. That would help slow TTK. Rather than making TTK lower by adding even more ridiculous quirks.

Edited by Khobai, 31 July 2015 - 02:35 AM.

[Alek Ituin]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 July 2015 - 02:25 AM, said:

ER=Extended Range. Less range would kinda defeat the Extended part of the name.

But, but... Clans OP?

Never mind the fact that they need to balance the MECH's and not the weapons. See, anti-Clan Crusaders have consistently stupid ideas for nerfing Clan weapons because of 4-5 Clan Mechs, and forget that the other 12-13 Clan Mechs suck hairy balls.

Meanwhile, when you nerf the problem Mechs and buff the UP Mechs, you bring parity within the faction, and eventually parity between the factions. (Because before you can reach global balance, factions need to be balanced within themselves)

Edited by Alek Ituin, 31 July 2015 - 02:31 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

4-5 Clan Mechs, and forget that the other 12-13 Clan Mechs suck hairy balls.

not any different for IS.

Only like 4-5 IS mechs are good. Except they have like 30+ mechs that suck.

[Alek Ituin]

Khobai, on 31 July 2015 - 02:37 AM, said:

not any different for IS.

Only like 4-5 IS mechs are good. Except they have like 30+ mechs that suck.

And yet you don't see anybody trying to blanket nerf the other 30 IS Mechs in to oblivion just to deal with the 4-5 top-performers.

[Khobai]

Quote

And yet you don't see anybody trying to blanket nerf the other 30 IS Mechs in to oblivion just to deal with the 4-5 top-performers.

Yeah but even the worst clan mech is still better than the worst IS mech.

[Alek Ituin]

Khobai, on 31 July 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

Yeah but even the worst clan mech is still better than the worst IS mech.

1. Please stop removing my name from the quote, so I can get the damn notifications.
2. You're the most sadly deluded sad-sack I've ever dealt with, if you honestly think that.

Lolcust VS Myth Lynx = Dead Myth Lynx, feasting Lolcust.
(Assuming these two are considered the worst of both)

[Khobai]

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Lolcust VS Myth Lynx = Dead Myth Lynx, feasting Lolcust.

I disagree. Because the game isnt 1v1. Its 12v12. MistLynx has much better long-range options for weapons than the Locust.

[Alek Ituin]

Khobai, on 31 July 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

I disagree. Because the game isnt 1v1. Its 12v12. MistLynx has much better long-range options for weapons than the Locust.

And yet it still suffers from Gorilla Arms, somehow being softer than a Lolcust, and Clan Energy burn times.

I DARE you to trade long range fire in a Myth Lynx. Watch how fast you get dismantled.

[Lostdragon]

I wish quirks were more of a "Oh, that's a neat bonus this mech gets!" more so than a system designed to try and make mechs competitive in spite of their major flaws or flaws with the game or other equipment. That is the main problem.

[Ascaloth]

Weapon Cooldown and Range quirks are actually pretty good, even at +10%, due to weapon modules and fast fire stacking.
i.e.:
Cooldown quirk +10%, Module +12%, Fast Fire +5% = +27% cooldown. A weapon that fire each 2 seconds will fire each 1.46 seconds.
Range quirk +10% + Module +10% = +20% range. A range of 650 meters will be increased to 780 meters.

Pretty good for a well-rounded IS mech, but still not sufficient for a underwhelming mech - that's why Commandos still sucks, they need much better quirks, like +40% or +50% 'something' to become nearly good, like Cicada-3C does.

[Lily from animove]

it depends on what, 10% beamduration reduction is pitiful tbh.
10% laser cooldown on mechs anyways overheating quik is on a edgecase of pointlessness.
10% AC cooldown for AC 5's is a massive buff.
10% heat reduction or 10% range (unless MG's or flamers) on the other side, now thats serious stuff here.