58 replies to this topic

[Fate 6]

Alek Ituin, on 31 July 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

1. Please stop removing my name from the quote, so I can get the damn notifications.
2. You're the most sadly deluded sad-sack I've ever dealt with, if you honestly think that.

Lolcust VS Myth Lynx = Dead Myth Lynx, feasting Lolcust.
(Assuming these two are considered the worst of both)

The locust isn't the worst though. The Commando is definitely worse and the Mist Lynx is much better than the Commando at the same 25 tons. The Summoner is better than the IS 70 tonners and the Gargoyle is better than the IS 80 tonners. Even the SadCat is generally better than the worst IS mediums.

Clan tech makes Clan mechs better, which is why quirks exist. The best Clan mechs need to be brought down, because bringing the worst ones up just means IS needs that much more buffs

[Ascaloth]

This print should be automatically post everytime someone start a thread about quirks, because EVERYTIME the Clan whining ruins the whole discussion.

[Alek Ituin]

Fate 6, on 31 July 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:

The locust isn't the worst though. The Commando is definitely worse and the Mist Lynx is much better than the Commando at the same 25 tons. The Summoner is better than the IS 70 tonners and the Gargoyle is better than the IS 80 tonners. Even the SadCat is generally better than the worst IS mediums.

Clan tech makes Clan mechs better, which is why quirks exist. The best Clan mechs need to be brought down, because bringing the worst ones up just means IS needs that much more buffs

It's really sad when a Mech is so bad you forget it even exists.

[Bishop Steiner]

Felio, on 30 July 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

"Functionally zero" means a number is not zero, but it means zero for practical purposes.

Many quirks suffer from Hill Climb Module syndrome. Sure, they do something. Probably. They probably aren't bugged and do nothing. But the chances of them changing anything that happens on the battlefield are astronomical.

I don't just mean who wins or loses. I mean the exact number of shots hitting specific locations.

Small numbers probably work best for heat generation quirks because they accumulate over a firefight and the difference between 99% and 100% heat threshold is huge. Small cooldown quirks may matter occasionally.

All missile spread quirks are useless -- we have none of sufficient strength. Smaller quirks for range or projectile speed generally are useless, too.

Putting a number to this is difficult to do across the board, but I'd estimate that a handful of 10% quirks matter, but most less than 15% don't. Even some at 15% don't.

This is only true because of the number of mechs with stupid o25% or more over quirks. remove all those, and lesser quirks take on meaning.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 31 July 2015 - 05:46 AM.

[Fate 6]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 July 2015 - 05:45 AM, said:

This is only true because of the number of mechs with stupid o25% or more over quirks. remove all those, and lesser quirks take on meaning.

Oh yeah, the HBK-4SP and CDA-X5 are sooooo over quirked right? Those mechs are OP

[Sarlic]

Quirks are stupid and i wished PGI never started with it.

The Huggin is a perfect example of quirks way out of line. Or the Dragon with the AC/5 rate and other mechs with stupid high quirks.

The approach of PGI did in the first place was totally wrong.

I believe somebody posted a excellent example of how it should be done. Start at looking at the weapons, hardpoints and more and then quirk adjust it. Can't recall who it was.

We will see what the next month will bring.

Edited by Sarlic, 31 July 2015 - 06:12 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Fate 6, on 31 July 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

Oh yeah, the HBK-4SP and CDA-X5 are sooooo over quirked right? Those mechs are OP

Oh look, one or two mechs that don't jump out....because their quirks and hardpoints and weapons systems don't allow them to shine nears as much as WVR-6Ks, DRG-1Ns, TDRs, HBK-4G, 4H, 4J and GI, etc. And the rest of the Overquirked mechs that make up the vast majority of mechs seen, ESPECIALLY in the Medium weight class.

Bad argument is bad.Please try again.

Sarlic, on 31 July 2015 - 06:09 AM, said:

I believe somebody posted a excellent example of how it should be done. Start at looking at the weapons, hardpoints and more and then quirk adjust it. Can't recall who it was.

Hi.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 31 July 2015 - 06:22 AM.

[Fate 6]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 July 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

Oh look, one or two mechs that don't jump out....because their quirks and hardpoints and weapons systems don't allow them to shine nears as much as WVR-6Ks, DRG-1Ns, TDRs, HBK-4G, 4H and GI, etc. And the rest of the Overquirked mechs that make up the vast majority of mechs seen, ESPECIALLY in the Medium weight class.

Bad argument is bad.Please try again.


Hi.

You already made my point. Just because a quirk is huge, it isn't necessarily bad or stupid. The two mechs I mentioned got massive quirks yet aren't good. The CN9-D got massive quirks but is still basically a joke (a fun joke, but still a joke). The 4SRM Griffin (not the 2N) basically doesnt have quirks and is still considered a better SRM brawler. Like you said, sometimes the quirks don't allow them to shine, so balancing quirks is a matter of just that - picking the right quirks and values to create a fun mech but not making it overshadow everything. Saying "waah waahh big quirk values" means nothing because the high values themselves aren't the problem. You have to look at the whole package.

Just to note - the DRG-1N even with hilariously strong AC5 quirks rarely if ever sees the light of day. You still see more Cataphracts in PUG queue

[GreyNovember]

Here's a thought. Instead of percentage based quirks, have them be set bonuses. + 50m range. -0.1 second duration.

That way we don't have outliers with really long range/cooldown time being that much more affected by bigger percentages.

[Khobai]

Quote

I DARE you to trade long range fire in a Myth Lynx. Watch how fast you get dismantled.

I routinely play an ERLL mist lynx in CW

Its quite easy to stay out of range of any IS weapons. The only IS weapon that can even touch me at that range is the ERPPC which is easy to dodge if you just dont stand still.

[Alek Ituin]

Khobai, on 31 July 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

I routinely play an ERLL mist lynx in CW

Its quite easy to stay out of range of any IS weapons. The only IS weapon that can even touch me at that range is the ERPPC which is easy to dodge if you just dont stand still.

So basically, what you're saying is, in essence:

"I edge hump like a pro, abusing the poor map geometry on CW maps that allows me to abuse my ability to fire directly at targets from near-max range. Obviously this makes the Myst Lynx uber-powerful everywhere, including PUG matches where this scenario rarely plays out, let alone well."

Well then...

[Fate 6]

Alek Ituin, on 31 July 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

So basically, what you're saying is, in essence:

"I edge hump like a pro, abusing the poor map geometry on CW maps that allows me to abuse my ability to fire directly at targets from near-max range. Obviously this makes the Myst Lynx uber-powerful everywhere, including PUG matches where this scenario rarely plays out, let alone well."

Well then...

Hey, you dared him, don't get mad when he actually successfully does it. And especially don't get whiny for him actually playing intelligently.

[Ascaloth]

Fate 6, on 31 July 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

Just to note - the DRG-1N even with hilariously strong AC5 quirks rarely if ever sees the light of day. You still see more Cataphracts in PUG queue

I love Dragons, always loved and probably always will, but they were utterly crap before the quirks. Even now, the 1N is the only one who can do some real difference in the game and only because the over-quirks, but it's far from being OP since it's the most fragile IS Heavy (armor is meh, hitboxes are huge, no JJ, XL + many tons of ammo to be viable but also a walking bomb). And if you lose your right arm to a single Clan alpha (happens a lot) you are done for the rest of the match.
The other Dragons all had nice quirks, but they're still underwhelming.

I'm able to do some terrific games with my Dragon-1N, but only because i have some experience with nearly 1k games on it. This machine is funny but far from being easy to drive (and survive).

[Alek Ituin]

Fate 6, on 31 July 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

Hey, you dared him, don't get mad when he actually successfully does it. And especially don't get whiny for him actually playing intelligently.

So I make a comment boiling down his post, detailing why it doesn't make sense... And this makes me "whiny"?

Good lord, people like you are the reason I can't stand humanity.

[Fate 6]

Alek Ituin, on 31 July 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

So I make a comment boiling down his post, detailing why it doesn't make sense... And this makes me "whiny"?

Good lord, people like you are the reason I can't stand humanity.

You made up a bunch of crap that he didn't even say (PUG queue when he was clearly talking about CW) and complained about abusing geometry. Uh, he plays the mech to its maximum potential, I'm missing what's wrong with that. You also really don't say why his post doesn't make sense unless your poor summary of his comment is also your counterargument at the same time. So many logical fallacies in one post.

Also your faith in humanity is the least of my concerns. You can leave the human race any time you want.

[Alek Ituin]

Fate 6, on 31 July 2015 - 07:28 AM, said:

You made up a bunch of crap that he didn't even say (PUG queue when he was clearly talking about CW) and complained about abusing geometry. Uh, he plays the mech to its maximum potential, I'm missing what's wrong with that. You also really don't say why his post doesn't make sense unless your poor summary of his comment is also your counterargument at the same time. So many logical fallacies in one post.

Also your faith in humanity is the least of my concerns. You can leave the human race any time you want.

Oh yeah, someone else who has no clue that quotes can be used for satirical purposes! It was satire, BTW. If you don't like it, shove your opinion firmly up your a**, because the only f**k I give about you and your opinions was just expended on writing this comment.

As for encouraging me to commit suicide... It's best for both of us if I don't touch that one.

[Fate 6]

Alek Ituin, on 31 July 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

Oh yeah, someone else who has no clue that quotes can be used for satirical purposes! It was satire, BTW. If you don't like it, shove your opinion firmly up your a**, because the only f**k I give about you and your opinions was just expended on writing this comment.

As for encouraging me to commit suicide... It's best for both of us if I don't touch that one.

Satire is fine but you're talking about your summary of his post like it's fact, when in fact you just made up a bunch of things based on information he didn't give you. Logic fallacy. So go ahead, "satire" all you want, but don't claim what you're saying is in any way actually truth.

Or you could gene splice yourself into you can't have fertile babies with humans. The method is up to you, you're the one that brought it up in the first place.

And btw, I can state my opinion as freely as I want. If you dont like it feel free to not use this forum which we use to post our opinions. I don't care if you care about my opinion but you should at least understande the basic purpose of a forum instead of being a salty dog when someone points at the flaws in your actually nonexistent argument

[Alek Ituin]

Fate 6, on 31 July 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

Satire is fine but you're talking about your summary of his post like it's fact, when in fact you just made up a bunch of things based on information he didn't give you. Logic fallacy. So go ahead, "satire" all you want, but don't claim what you're saying is in any way actually truth.

I never said it was truth. Where did I say that?

Funny that you should create a strawman argument, the most basic of all logical fallacies, and then call me out for non existent fallacies in an obviously satirical post. If I wanted to make a solid argument, I'd make it.


To be fair though, expecting advanced thinking from elitist e-peen stroking internet trash like yourself is the same as expecting a rock to bleed. Express whatever opinion you want, but don't get pissy when I express my opinion that you and your ideas are entirely worthless. Considering your past forays with this forum, calling me a "salty dog" is like the pot calling the kettle black... To save us both time, now and in the future, you're on ignore.

Have a great day.

[LastPaladin]

Night Thastus, on 30 July 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:

Can you imagine what it's like when 'Mech have a 50% weapon cooldown quirk? It would be bad enough on it's own, but combined, it's absurd. They need to reign that **** under control.

Some of those "mega cooldown" mechs are nice, but there are built-in drawbacks, because they heat up faster and run out of ammo a lot faster.

Still, most mechs that have those quirks, if they did not have them, would be useless mechs due to hardpoints, hitboxes, or whatever. The quirks are the only things that make them viable really.