111 replies to this topic

[Light-Speed]

Because out of a couple thousand players, there's bound to be people that have no idea what to do with it and mentally blame PGI for it.

And btw, while PGI had made lots of mistakes, Mech design is far from being one. In fact, it's the single thing that I am most impressed with their work.

[Bloodweaver]

El Bandito, on 31 July 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

Once a Scat pilot jumped in front of my 6R and dueled with me. I blasted the thing apart in mere seconds with my over-quirked AC5s. Scat is not meant for brawling. Like the Cicada or the BJ, it is meant for hit-n-run. And many people do not have the required patience for such style of fighting.

Jman5, on 31 July 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

I've noticed a lot of people playing it like you would a much bigger mech. Making aggressive moves that work for a heavy or assault, but are suicidal in something 45 tons. I don't think it's any surprise when 2/3 of the community mostly play 65+ ton mechs that they aren't quite prepared to adjust to being a little fish.

These pretty much reflect my own take on your question, OP. I've done fantastically in the SCAT so far.

[El Bandito]

Tristan Winter, on 31 July 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

Meant for hit and run, and yet it's barely faster than heavy mechs, let alone other medium mechs.

"+10 kph HYPERSPEED ENGAGE!!! HOLD ON, THIS IS GOING TO - never mind, it's over."

If you cannot do hit and run with 107 kph mech + MASC + 6 JJs, you should gift me the Scat pack, and I will show you how it is done correctly.

I'll even make tutorial video about it.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 July 2015 - 06:06 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

El Bandito, on 31 July 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

If you cannot do hit and run with 107 kph mech + MASC + 6 JJs, you should buy me the Scat pack, and I will show you how it is done correctly.

I can do it. It's just not as easy with the SHC as with certain other mechs, because it's fairly slow for its size. Doesn't mean it can't be done. You can brawl with it too. It's not ideal brawler, but you can brawl with it. You can poptart with it. It's really a bit too hot to be an ideal poptart, but you can do it.

You said it was meant for hit-and-run, and I do agree that ECM and hit-and-run tactics are a good way of increasing survivability with this mech. I didn't really have a point, I'm just bitter because MASC is so terrible on this mech.

Crazy amount of screenshake for a momentary +10kph speed bonus at a cost of 2 tons. It's silly.

Edited by Tristan Winter, 31 July 2015 - 06:14 PM.

[CtrlAltWheee]

TELEFORCE, on 31 July 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

I'm just wondering. Do those who like the Shadow Cat also enjoy the Summoner? I really enjoy both. What they both have in common is that the hard points force you to do more with less, plus they both have the advantage of better maneuverability than 'mechs in the same weight class. That comes at a cost of pod space, yet the Shadow Cat has more stock pod space than a Nova (though the Nova isn't as optimized as the Shadow Cat).

Yea I like the scat and the summoner

[El Bandito]

Tristan Winter, on 31 July 2015 - 06:11 PM, said:

I can do it. It's just not as easy with the SHC as with certain other mechs, because it's fairly slow for its size. Doesn't mean it can't be done. You can brawl with it too. It's not ideal brawler, but you can brawl with it. You can poptart with it. It's really a bit too hot to be an ideal poptart, but you can do it.

You said it was meant for hit-and-run, and I do agree that ECM and hit-and-run tactics are a good way of increasing survivability with this mech. I didn't really have a point, I'm just bitter because MASC is so terrible on this mech.

Crazy amount of screenshake for a momentary +10kph speed bonus at a cost of 2 tons. It's silly.

MASC gives far more than +10kph move speed. It also gives crazy accel and decel and turn bonus. Is it worth two tons? I do not know the answer to that, yet. Cause I did not pre-order the pack.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 July 2015 - 06:36 PM.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 31 July 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

MASC gives far more than +10kph move speed. It also gives crazy accel and decel and turn bonus. Is it worth two tons? I do not know the answer to that, yet. Cause I did not pre-order the pack.

I have not gotten Speed Tweak yet, but non-Speed Tweaked MASC on a Scat is like getting Speed Tweak.

It's totally underwhelming.

Edited by Deathlike, 31 July 2015 - 06:38 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 31 July 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

MASC gives far more than +10kph move speed. It also gives crazy accel and decel and turn bonus. Is it worth two tons? I do not know the answer to that, yet. Cause I did not pre-order the pack.

The accel/decel isn't as necessary for hit and run as raw speed is. It is certainly nice to have, especially if you want to "stutter step" to mess with people's aim, but considering what 2 tons to the engine instead could get you (better speed on a permanent basis and better agility), it is no surprise people are disappointed.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 31 July 2015 - 06:43 PM.

[Throat Punch]

I love the S-Cat. So much fun. I was in a match or two with spectralthundr. One I died quite early and watched him play and he was tearing it up. The other match I think we both ended with 2 kills and a couple of assists and almost 600 damage. It is a decent 'mech if you know how to hit and run and don't just try and brawl. You have to know how to use your jj's and masc effectively. These are the builds im running and having a blast.
SHC-PRIME
SHC-B

[Y E O N N E]

Tristan Winter, on 31 July 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

I'm playing the game where Cicadas roam the plains at 150 kph, Ice Ferrets trot at a comfortable 142 kph and the Stormcrow, the heaviest and most feared medium mech in the game, has the same base speed as this 45-ton "hit and run" S-Cat. A few seconds of Diet MASC doesn't help that much when Stormcrows can match your speed.

Yes, the MASC boost is less than impressive. Enough said.

Ignoring that CDAs and IFRs aren't exactly running amok in this game, that doesn't change your premise. Most heavies have a hard time reaching 89.1 kph, let alone exceeding it.

Hit-and-run/striking isn't necessarily about flat-out speed, anyway. All of the Blackjacks except the Arrow are competent at it, not just the extra-speedy BJ-1X. The BJ-1 has about the same hard-point and weight limitations as the SCat, and it goes pretty much as fast as a Timberwolf with a min-maxed loadout. Hunchbacks aren't suffering from a Light-mech identity crisis, and make excellent strikers as well.

Speed isn't really the SCat's problem. Having two tons spent on MASC and having so many fixed structure slots concentrated in the torsos is. Disallowing a UAC/20 in the left torso with the P variant was a stupid move. Hell, adding one extra E hard-point to allow four E would be a massive improvement, too.

[EX S]

While not horrible, I've found the Shadowcat to be a relatively painful mech to master and level. It's a darn shame, because it was the mech I was looking forward to the most. It's not a Mist Linx situation as I have ha

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

W A R K H A N, on 31 July 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Maybe it's just me as I've never really got far into the laser vomit meta play. Or because I pilot novas instead of stormcrows, but I really like the shadowcat. My favorite poker / harasser by a long shot. My main shadow cat is at a 5-1 kdr after 50 matches played in it...not seeing how this mech is useless Maybe people are trying to force it into a role it's not meant for?

Because people have fuzzy feelings for it from Mechwarrior 4 mercs. Of it being this jump sniping, pop tarting god of a mech that could do everything and out duel pretty much anything.

And it doesn't hold up to that expectation in this iteration.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 31 July 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

Hit-and-run/striking isn't necessarily about flat-out speed, anyway. All of the Blackjacks except the Arrow are competent at it

Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with you here, hit-and-run/striking generally requires speed because you are generally running as a satellite unit around the main group. You need speed to get back into formation with the group in case lights discover you isolated since you generally can't handle that many lights.

If you are just running with the main group then you really aren't a harasser/striker type mech. Speed is a necessity for these sort of mechs. They don't have to be as fast as Firestarters or other lights, but they have to at least be faster than most heavies/mediums.

[El Bandito]

Deathlike, on 31 July 2015 - 06:38 PM, said:

I have not gotten Speed Tweak yet, but non-Speed Tweaked MASC on a Scat is like getting Speed Tweak.

It's totally underwhelming.

And I know by experience that Speed Tweak makes big difference in mech performance.

WM Quicksilver, on 31 July 2015 - 07:53 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with you here, hit-and-run/striking generally requires speed because you are generally running as a satellite unit around the main group. You need speed to get back into formation with the group in case lights discover you isolated since you generally can't handle that many lights.

If you are just running with the main group then you really aren't a harasser/striker type mech. Speed is a necessity for these sort of mechs. They don't have to be as fast as Firestarters or other lights, but they have to at least be faster than most heavies/mediums.

And how many Heavies and even Mediums that can 1 v1 the Scat, are willing to devote enough large engines to run at 117 kph, with MASC? Go check smurfy and name them.

BTW, a Striker type mech does not have to leave the group formation as much as you think. They just have to be able to corner peak and retreat faster than the enemy can react to them.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 July 2015 - 08:04 PM.

[PurpleNinja]

Every mech has been piloted by someone so bad that it became useless.

[Moldur]

Because it has no guns and a MASC unit that conveys a subjectively worse speed boost compared to a heavier engine for the same tonnage.

[Lightfoot]

I mastered mine last week. It's an okay mech, but MechWarrior is balanced by the need to help your team win with the least tonnage, so you take the best mech when you want your team to win, not the mech you want to take.

So that is the balance point for mechs.

In my opinion PGI made the Shadow Cat too easy to kill, thinking that MASC would be more powerful than it is turning out to be. It has few hardpoints, but that is not a major drawback, just a limitation, however it means the mech should be a bit tougher. Once you get caught in a face-off the Scat loses too quickly because the MASC can't dodge Lasers. I have had Light mechs out-circle it and shoot the arms off in one shot and had the CT one-shotted so many times. So it's just for long range poking really. Basically the Shadow Cat's CT get's one-shotted like its taking a headshot.

Edited by Lightfoot, 31 July 2015 - 08:08 PM.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 31 July 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

And I know by experience that Speed Tweak makes big difference in mech performance.

You're not quite understanding what I'm saying.

I know what Speed Tweak does, but if the performance gain is essentially the level of "Speed Tweak" (relative to this mech - as the significant gains occur mostly for a Light), then it's something I'd more or less "write off".

Mind you, I do understand the impact of Speed Tweak... and it's "free" when you grind it. It is "less than effective" due to the limited burst you'd get from MASC.

The Executioner... from my limited experience isn't benefiting speed wise with MASC... it's most beneficial gain is getting to top speed significantly quicker than normal, but also getting in and out quicker... for an Assault.

In the case of a medium (the Shadowcat), this is not as meaningful as mechs going @ the Stormcrow's "natural speed" is already pretty quick (although w/o quirks, the Adder+Kitfox become far worse than they are now given where they are at due to the engine rules and those mechs being undertonned/underweight "Mediums" in this game - yes, I know they are "Lights"). The benefits aren't "realized" as effectively as they could be at this point. That's the problem with the MASC implementation for this particular mech.

Edited by Deathlike, 31 July 2015 - 08:11 PM.

[El Bandito]

Deathlike, on 31 July 2015 - 08:10 PM, said:

You're not quite understanding what I'm saying.

I know what Speed Tweak does, but if the performance gain is essentially the level of "Speed Tweak" (relative to this mech - as the significant gains occur mostly for a Light), then it's something I'd more or less "write off".

Mind you, I do understand the impact of Speed Tweak... and it's "free" when you grind it. It is "less than effective" due to the limited burst you'd get from MASC.

The Executioner... from my limited experience isn't benefiting speed wise with MASC... it's most beneficial gain is getting to top speed significantly quicker than normal, but also getting in and out quicker... for an Assault.

In the case of a medium (the Shadowcat), this is not as meaningful as mechs going @ the Stormcrow's "natural speed" is already pretty quick (although w/o quirks, the Adder+Kitfox become far worse than they are now given where they are at due to the engine rules and those mechs being undertonned/underweight "Mediums" in this game - yes, I know they are "Lights"). The benefits aren't "realized" as effectively as they could be at this point. That's the problem with the MASC implementation for this particular mech.

The MASC implementation might not be as good as it can be to the Scat, but that alone does not mean the Scat is a bad mech. Which is the point of this thread.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 July 2015 - 08:17 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 31 July 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

And how many Heavies and even Mediums that can 1 v1 the Scat, are willing to devote enough large engines to run at 117 kph, with MASC? Go check smurfy and name them.

You mean the Stormcrow which goes only 10kph slower and mounts more firepower with better survivability?
The BJ-1X?
The Ice Ferret which can out trade it with better speed?

I'm not asking MASC to boost it to Ice Ferret levels, but a 10% MASC increase to speed would actually make it more worthwhile over simply mounting a 300 XL. This will help give depth with future mechs that can mount MASC and a larger engine *cough*Wolverine*cough* rather than it be simply dumped.

El Bandito, on 31 July 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

BTW, a Striker type mech does not have to leave the group formation as much as you think. They just have to be able to corner peak and retreat faster than the enemy can react to them.

Then you are easily outclassed by the Stormcrow and the Wolverine, because they can do both better.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 31 July 2015 - 08:28 PM.