111 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

same reaosn they don't like the adder, only a few high mounted hardpoints and a hot mech.
Nothing for the impatient rambos.

[VATER]

If you are not sneaky and patient, this mech is NOT for you. It is 45t of ANNOYANCE on the battlefield, if you do it right.

[ArchSight]

Hi, I've been brain storming MWO's game balance for a long time and the answer why the shadow cat is being called useless is because it's not fitting into a pacific play style that is the most dominate in MWO currently. That play style involves taking the most firepower and hit points to survive that firepower hitting the same spot. Sense, the Shadow Cat is a 45 ton medium mech it cannot carry the maximum hit points of a 55 ton medium mech and it cannot mount as much firepower as a 55 ton medium mech due to available tonnage and hard points. It's the fact that MWO's game play balance does not do enough to balance out lower tonnage mechs vs higher tonnage mechs. It only gives a slight speed increase to mechs when they are lower tonnage. This speed increase is usually not fast enough to escape a player's aim for most of the lower tonnage options within certain weight classes. The Trade off is not enough to balance out player's choice to bring the most effective mech in this case.

(I would suggest a improvement to this trade off by increasing heat efficiency for lower tonnage options to promote higher DPS due to less tonnage to insulate the mech but the amount of the increase has to be judged at a individual mech basis due to different hard point set ups and tonnages. I also would suggest penalizing all alpha strikes with a heat increase to make singular weapons fire the least hottest option and the number of weapons a player chooses to fire at a time exponentially hotter per weapon fired with the group. This will establish a new heat efficient DPS play style among the alpha strike play style where player's will be able to keep firing for longer than alpha striking. It wont remove the option to Alpha strike and then hiding behind cover to cool down for another alpha strike but it will make it a valid option to extend the battle longer without alpha striking to take advantage of out of cover for longer periods of time. Lower tonnage mechs will be able to take advantage of this with their increased speed and newly added increased heat efficiency.)

The game modes Assault, Conquest and Skirmish do not limit choice by tonnage instead those game modes limit choice by weight class. In Community Warfare choice is limited by a maximum 240 tonnage drop deck which lower tonnage mechs are ideal to bring into in order to free up tonnage for higher tonnage mechs. In Community Warfare is where the Shadow Cat will be useful at due to MWO's current game play balance.

The inherit advantages or disadvantages of mechs all depend on pilot skill and the teams skills to bring out in the game though.

[CrushLibs]

6 JJs you can't remove , MASC that kinda sucks , runs very very hot , and doesn't hold a lot of ammo

So ballistics that are cool running you can't feed and lasers you can't cool.

Thus it sucks. if you want a ERL sniper why take a SC when a raven does the job

[Moomtazz]

I just finished Basics on the Prime and I'm in no hurry to basic the other variants + elite the Prime. I place it in the same category as the Mist Lynx, Kit Fox, and DDC. Mechs that are so bad that even ECM will not make me pick them over a non-ECM in the same weight class.

[Inveramsay]

if you could ditch the MASC and some of the JJs it would be a good mech. Right now it sits in a place where it is useful because it is a fairly light mech, nothing else.

[Shaio]

Most players probably lack the piloting skills to take advantage of the MASC induced agility on the Shadow Cat and thus are unable to use the mech to it's full potential.

So in a sense the Shadow Cat is wasted on the majority of pilots and is better left to the Top Dogs. That means that you never run into walls or other mechs, can easily out maneuver mechs twice your weight class, and make all of your jump attempts.

Edited by Shaio, 01 August 2015 - 12:10 PM.

[Steel Claws]

My main problem with the scat is that it doesn't seem like it does heat well at all. I run 3 ERL on a panther and it handles 3 ERL way better than the scat - seriously 2 alphas and you over heat. I also run 2 ERPPCs on some lights and they do it with less heat. Even 3 ERML seem overly hot. I don't think the heat index can possibly be right. In part I suppose I could be the JJs but I'm unsure about that.

Would also like to add that an Adder takes damage better than a scat. Seem like 2 LPL wipes out all your armor.

Edited by Steel Claws, 01 August 2015 - 02:19 PM.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 31 July 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

If you cannot do hit and run with 107 kph mech + MASC + 6 JJs, you should gift me the Scat pack, and I will show you how it is done correctly.

I'll even make tutorial video about it.

No please. Let people continue with their "Shadowcats are garbage" whine. Only good things can come out of that, especially for those who have no issues using them.

[Arc Viper]

This pretty much sums up my shadow cat experiance:

'Uh oh, I spotted an srm stormcrow. Time to use my MASC and make a quick getaway!'

*dead 10 seconds later

That sigh you feel when you can't outrun a heavier mech easily.

How is it that a mech 10 tons lighter matches the speed of a mech 10 tons heavier? With MASC active I might be able to pull another 5 feet away before I die. When I pilot the shadow cat, "Hit and run" tactics don't work most of the time. It's more like "Hit and hide behind a heavier mech"

Not to mention it has very few viable builds because of the hardpoints, and one of them is just boring to use.

The jumpjets support a pop-tart style gameplay, but you can't even mount a gauss without running out of ammo ridiculously fast. This is why I think it needs some sort of buff.

Edited by Arc Viper, 01 August 2015 - 07:43 PM.

[VATER]

Arc Viper, on 01 August 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

This pretty much sums up my shadow cat experiance:

'Uh oh, I spotted an srm stormcrow. Time to use my MASC and make a quick getaway!'

*dead 10 seconds later

That sigh you feel when you can't outrun a heavier mech easily.

Aha, so you do something wrong. Sorry, but with MAgicSCat engaged you can reach spaces, that a SCR will never reach. I never had problems to engage and evade, but I on the other hand have never run into a SCR and called it "spotting". The trick with the SHC is to make use of the terrain. Engage MAgicSCat and go to places no Mechwarrior has gone before.... ...hint: there is trees to knock over on some of the buildings in RC.

A medium that is able to do a 360° in mid-air...MAgicSCat !!!

Edited by VATER, 01 August 2015 - 08:07 PM.

[Arc Viper]

VATER, on 01 August 2015 - 07:53 PM, said:

Aha, so you do something wrong. Sorry, but with MASC engaged you can reach spaces, that a SCR will never reach. I never had problems to engage and evade, but I on the other hand have never run into a SCR and called it "spotting". The trick with the SHC is to make use of the terrain. Engage MASC and go to places no Mechwarrior has gone before.... ...hint: there is trees to knock over on some of the buildings in RC.

Depending on where you were at, it is unavoidable. I was on hpg manifold under the dome when I spotted it around the corner. Not to mention the entirety of Caustic Valley. Good luck finding a place to jump to there.

[VATER]

Arc Viper, on 01 August 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

Depending on where you were at, it is unavoidable. I was on hpg manifold under the dome when I spotted it around the corner. Not to mention the entirety of Caustic Valley. Good luck finding a place to jump to there.

Why are you even under the dome with a MAgicSCat ??? On HPG the outer ring is your best friend, that and patience and the lack of backarmour on the enemy mechs....

Edited by VATER, 01 August 2015 - 08:11 PM.

[Mcgral18]

VATER, on 01 August 2015 - 08:09 PM, said:

Why are you even under the dome with a MAgicSCat ??? On HPG the outer ring is your best friend, that and patience.

So, abandon the team, provide no assistance with ECM.


Seems like a waste.

[Moldur]

With 2 LPL I can squeeze 600 damage out of the Shadowcat pretty consistently. It's not versatile, but you can do it.
1 clan erPPC + 2 clan erML also works out kind of. Those are builds that you can pretty well push out some damage by peeking and poking.

The Shadowcat, in my opinion, has good opportunity to serve as a team-splitting mech. Its mobility and the fact that it is 45 tons gives it some survivability and makes it appear more threatening/worth chasing than a light trying a similar tactic. Mining Collective, for instance, is an excellent map to draw away 2-3 or more enemies away from the main group, thus conferring a numerical advantage for the rest of your team. Your jump jets, MASC, and ECM will give you the ability to end/continue the encounter on your own terms by making a quick get away or approach. This, in turn, will allow you to draw out the "chase" while your own team wrecks the main force without actually having to engage and get pummeled by the mechs chasing you.

This all said, its hardpoints and tonnage make it pretty limiting in terms of face to face fighting.

Edited by Moldur, 01 August 2015 - 08:14 PM.

[VATER]

Mcgral18, on 01 August 2015 - 08:10 PM, said:

So, abandon the team, provide no assistance with ECM.


Seems like a waste.

You realize, that the MAgicSCat is designed as a Clan Scout? If not, read the TROs. Use it to its fullest potential, or do not use it at all. My team always knows, that I will harras, distract and weaken the enemy for them. Nothing is funnier than to see the Big Boys panic, when they get hit in the back.

[Mcgral18]

VATER, on 01 August 2015 - 08:15 PM, said:

You realize, that the MAgicSCat is designed as a Clan Scout? If not, read the TROs. Use it to its fullest potential, or do not use it at all. My team always knows, that I will harras, distract and weaken the enemy for them. Nothing is funnier than to see the Big Boys panic, when they get hit in the back.

I prefer shooting those SadCats in the face with 30 PP FLD.


That makes them back down very fast.

[VATER]

Moldur, on 01 August 2015 - 08:12 PM, said:

With 2 LPL I can squeeze 600 damage out of the Shadowcat pretty consistently. It's not versatile, but you can do it.
1 clan erPPC + 2 clan erML also works out kind of. Those are builds that you can pretty well push out some damage by peeking and poking.

The Shadowcat, in my opinion, has good opportunity to serve as a team-splitting mech. Its mobility and the fact that it is 45 tons gives it some survivability and makes it appear more threatening/worth chasing than a light trying a similar tactic. Mining Collective, for instance, is an excellent map to draw away 2-3 or more enemies away from the main group, thus conferring a numerical advantage for the rest of your team. Your jump jets, MASC, and ECM will give you the ability to end/continue the encounter on your own terms by making a quick get away or approach. This, in turn, will allow you to draw out the "chase" while your own team wrecks the main force without actually having to engage and get pummeled by the mechs chasing you.

This all said, its hardpoints and tonnage make it pretty limiting in terms of face to face fighting.

Here we have a prime example of a good MAgicSCat pilot. I prefer the ERPPC & 2 MEDLas MAgicSCat, the PPC does not give away your position that fast.

[VATER]

Mcgral18, on 01 August 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

I prefer shooting those SadCats in the face with 30 PP FLD.


That makes them back down very fast.

Hmmm,... sure. Situational awareness is trump for a MAgicSCat. I will not poke you when you look at me, and I will not skyline.... . Punch in the back, relocate. Know your sourroundings. Withdraw and return.

[Mcgral18]

VATER, on 01 August 2015 - 08:21 PM, said:

Hmmm,... sure. Situational awareness is trump for a MAgicSCat. I will not poke you when you look at me, and I will not skyline.... . Punch in the back, relocate. Know your sourroundings. Withdraw and return.

Shoot, maim, kill.


SadCat doesn't do that very well. That's the only role MWO has. Hankyu has it beaten for less tonnage.


If MASC boosted it to 130/142 (either works) it would be much more valuable, or if it worked for 20 seconds at the pitiful 10Kph boost instead of 7.5s.



Current implementation makes the SadCat sad.

Edited by Mcgral18, 01 August 2015 - 08:25 PM.